@canefan they couldn't be so foolish. The Crusaders win.

as a by the by - they've already changed their name once

@canefan From my personal experience this is a dangerous argument because it is predicated upon the assumption that they haven't spend 22 years complaining and being ignored - as some reports say they have been about security.

I've posted upon this before so apologies but back in the 70's one of the things the Uni of Akl Engineering School used to do during Orientation and Capping Week was dress in grass skirts with naked torsos. They'd paint their chests and faces with swear words and basically spend the week being disruptive - running through the quad pulling women's dresses up in and out of lecture theatres making monkey noises doing "comic" hakas etc . Behaviour that was pretty much accepted as boys having fun but nowadays quite rightly would be treated as seriously out of line.

So in 1979 a bunch of Maori in cars hit the Uni and pile through the Engineering campus giving a few guys a bit of a hiding.

Cue outrage by the Herald and the majority of student body at this thuggish behaviour.

The President of AUSA was quoted by Herald saying as an individual while I abhore violence I can understand Maori frustration at this behaviour.

By this stage I had been at Uni 3 years and had never seen the student body engaged. What ho. Cue three days of non-stop debate in the quad - 99% of which was directed at the AUSA President for daring to criticise the Engineering Students who were just letting off steam and having some harmless fun. One of the common threads was pretty much what you said - they've had all this time to complain so why the biffo.

It turned out (documented proof was provided) that the Maori University Club had been protesting the Engineering students "likeable larrikinism" for over 40 years!!! So my point is we can't assume that no one has been protesting the use of the Crusaders name just because they've had 22 years to do so.

Final result was there was a vote by around 5,000 - 150 roundly condemning the actions of the Student Association President All the Engineering Students got was sympathy. I left at the end of that year but they carried on with their behaviour.

That episode more than any other illustrated for me how deeply entrenched racism was in NZ in the 70's. I'd already decided to head overseas at the end of the year and was bloody happy to do so.

As I said earlier in this thread I was shocked to discover when I returned 13 years later that not a lot had changed. I do think the situation has improved dramatically since then but what I'm learning is a sizeable number of non-whites don't agree.

Personally I don't favour changing the name because it is a win for the asshole but I think a debate at some stage after the season is over cannot hurt.

@canefan oh the irony given Erdogan plays the race card at every opportunity and effectively sponsors state terrorism.

When I came back to NZ I was shocked at how blatant the racism was in NZ Not institutional but from all manner of people. Particularly against Asian and Maori.

I think the whole Foreshore and Seabed debate got pretty nasty at times and then of course there's the NZ First bigotry.

There's also been the Labour Party with their Asian sounding names shit leading a pretty uncomfortable dialogue about "foreign ownership" that sailed pretty close to pandering to some peoples basest instincts at times.

I'm still shocked at times. Generally it's old fucks who are never going to change but too often it's young people. However, in the main I think the situation has improved dramatically in the last couple of decades. In Auckland at least almost everywhere is a real mix of nationalities so whilst I guess this triggers some racists I think it has broadened the average persons outlook. There are just so many mixed relationships (& their progeny) it just has to help with colour blindness. Got to be hard for some of the entrenched bigotry when your grandchild is half pasifika.

Personal examples. A few times an employee I've had cause to discipline has tried to play the race card, I've been told to fuck off whitey in a couple of pubs and the last two scraps I got into were with European racists who didn't like being called out over their behaviour. But in the main as I said we are light years away from my youth when a film about the shock of an inter-racial marriage was big news or the majority of Akl Uni students thought dressing up in grass skirts and writing cunt on your chest was all good fun.

@taniwharugby yet in the professional era there have been 5 RWC cycles only one of which (Smith/Mitchell) had an ex AB in charge. Non AB's have led us to two World Cups and a first ever series win in SA

@nzzp Gatland was an AB

@booboo You've omitted Gatland's time coaching Ireland so over 13 seasons in total plus two Lions tours. I doubt there has ever been a more experienced candidate for AB coach.

How have ex Wales coaches gone before?

I think Foster will get the gig barring a meltdown in Japan.

How do he and Gatland get along?

the Shakers

I would suggest Quakers but that would be offensive to Mormons.

I've always found the prancing around on ponies more than a bit pathetic with their plastic looking swords and shit. However the music is awesome although given it's called Conquest of Paradise I guess that's terribly non P.C. too.....

@Paekakboyz Left hand, right hand, doesn't matter bro, I'm amphibious!!

@Salacious-Crumb I get that Campbell is a knob but labelling him a psycho is going a bit far - even though I can appreciate you would be traumatised if Goofy shoved a mike in your face.