The only similarity with 1998 and this year is they are both rebuilding years after a host of retirements the year before. In 1998 they lost five in a row. This year we had four teams in the SR playoffs, the ABs beat Wales and Aus 3 zip and had a perfect RC (all games won with bonus points). I predict a perfect RC will never happen again, so not such a disastrous year. As for the Olymics, Fiji is the best team in the world at sevens and totally deserved their gold.
GM1
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Just made the 11 hour return drive to Toronto yesterday after watching the game with the wife and kids.
Weather was fantastic. Around 20 degrees, which was unseasonably warm. Two years ago at the AB v USA game it was around 3 degrees (but mercifully sunny at least – the day before that there had been wind, snow and rain).
We were near the front in row 7 right behind the goal posts at the Northern end. Great view of the action when the players were down near that end. But sod’s law they were up the other end for most of the game and when in the far end 22 it was easier to see happenings on the big screen, which we had a perfect end on view of. Overall I preferred the seats we had two years ago that were quite near the back but not too far off the half way line (although being that high up the first 5 metres from the sideline were obscured with the stadium being designed for the narrower American football fields).
Crowd was well behaved and seemed to be about 50/50 black v green jerseys however the green fans were way more vocal. I can’t talk here as I am the worst ABs supporter myself, quiet as a mouse giving them bugger all support. I just can’t get the noise out and spend most of the game with a glum look and my stomach in knots (this game and the game v Bokke at Twickers last year, both way too close for me).
Filing out of the stadium afterwards was strangely sombre. The Irish fans were not as jubilant as I thought they might be. I think most of them were still in shock at the enormity of the win. We didn’t stay out that late with the kids and the long drive back to do the following day but by 9pm with more beer flowing and the singing ramping up things were finally starting to get rocking down town when we called it an evening.
I found the thought of losing to Ireland was worse than the reality when it actually happened. My son though (10) was in bits. He has very little experience of the ABs losing and when they did lose it even after they (as confidently predicted) staged their come back from 8-30 to 29-33, the need to cheer him up after the loss gave me the distraction I needed from my own woes. It also somehow felt a bit better sharing the loss with thousands of others there than at home cursing away at the TV.
We were staying down town and the day before there had been (reportedly, and exaggerated probably) 5 million people watching the cubs celebration parade. It was a lot of people and impossible for us, and I’m sure the All Blacks as well, not to get caught up in. It was a real sea of humanity and we struggled just to get from point A to B even with all the roads closed. I felt this was a big reason the ABs were flat and could not get up for the game (that and Ireland showed great compassion and belief at the same time). 108 years waiting for the cubs and 111 for Ireland. There was a sense for me that the ABs, even if subconsciously, felt that a loss to Ireland given the context and history of what had just happened in the city that week might somehow be more forgivable than otherwise. The parade went right past the All Blacks’ hotel and they were out there soaking it up with the fans. In short, their game the following day was always going to be the anticlimax of the weekend whatever the result. History game them permission to lose this one. Anyway that is my wacky theory.
On a more practical level, I think they lost mainly because this is the first time since (when???) that neither BBBR nor S Whitelock took the field, and they really got out muscled badly in the tight exchanges in the first half, which was aggravated by the binning of Moody and losing Crotty, all of which they never really got over.
As for the haka: why didn’t Smith lead it? FFS hasn’t he been punished enough already? My Mrs thinks he will never be the same player again. Hope she’s wrong about that.
Ground announcement was that it was a record for a game of rugby in the United States. 62,700.
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It was a (relatively) private space and clearly his team mates and management had no idea or he would have flown back from Argentina rather than flying on to SA. So he was dobbed in to his employer, the public and the prime minister for cheating on his partner.
It wasn't for having sex in a disabled toilet as they sat on the video for several days while the pervert husband googled Smith to confirm it was not his partner. They were not going to do anything up to that point and if they were, well the husband (or wife) could have walked up to Smith tapped him on the shoulder and said mate can i have quiet word - we saw that back there, you need to pull yr head in. And if they did not have the marbles to do that, then it probably wasn't a world-altering problem to begin with.
Instead we get the passive aggressive don't confront the actual person but instead invade their privacy by telling everybody else in the world.
The wife thinks young kids should not have to deal with their stars on weetbix packets being naughty. Her solution is to broadcast the naughtiness to all kids, when they would have had no idea otherwise.
At least I live in a country where this is not news so I don't need to discuss this with my kids. We watched the test yesterday and my 10 year old son just assumed Aaron Smith is injured. Yes son he's injured (penis injury).
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@Bones Interesting, and notice that this is not being reported on Stuff and all the Aaron Smith articles seems to have miraculously disappeared. Who can sue though because if it's only Smith (or his partner) they will just be wanting to put this all behind them now.
I'm just glad the terrible stuff I got up to when I was his age was pre internet and before anyone had the ability to record things. Imagine anyone on here how it would feel to have your prime minister condemn you.
this is making my blood boil now and if he pisses off overseas I'll be ropeable but won't blame him.
Being called out by a pony tail puller because a pious person says your're special because your face is on a weetbix packet. makes no sense.
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on Fekitoa i think some of the criticism is a wee bit harsh. to say he is a short term solution, maybe he is or isn't and i would agree if his current play was the best he can offer then he maybe keeping the seat warm. but i think he can play better than he is and is a bit down on confidence. i reckon he is a couple of line breaks and broken tackles away from breaking the shackles and regaining his fizz.
he is still very busy around the rucks and a committed tackler and player so not really a liability for the team. if the all blacks were losing and in desperate need for a midfield fix then situ would be different however they are winning easily and so the selectors at the moment can afford to allow the time for him to (hopefully) work out.
the comparisons with Nonu also a bit unfair as it's comparing a relatively inexperienced player with one who retired as arguably one of NZ's greatest ever mid fielders. Nonu took several years to establish himself let alone be considered a great player (not that I am suggesting Feks can or should be persevered with for that long).
I think Buckman chose a bad year to miss a season thru injury and might have had an opportunity in the AB environment this year if he'd played as well as he did last year and with the way things have gone. hope he comes back roaring next year and looking forward to seeing him back in action in the super comp.
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@taniwharugby said in All Pinks vs Boks - Christchurch:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11710301
Some interesting info there. Other than the WC final the only really close one was where DC did the droppie v Ireland to break the tie right at the end (that one point win over England in Dunedin not really that close as they were 15 points up and the game was won - England's last try came after the hooter).
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I may not even bother watching and quite frankly I haven't been this confident before an AB test since the 2003 WC semi.
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@Nepia I think It's a great thing. Can't think of many (any) major comps that suspend themselves for a month. Just as it was gaining momentum, it stops for a three test thumping of Wales, then the ABs stop while SR starts up again, then it ends and ABs start again. Will be a lot better having an uninterrupted SR comp not to mention an uninterrupted AB campaign. Some people i know did like the break though as found the SR going on that long too fatiguing??? -- so i guess no matter what they do with the scheduling there will always be someone who will find a way to get annoyed about it.
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I won't be too upset if they lose soon in terms of the current win streak as they'll just start another one and i figure they will reach 18 eventually.
No what will be really gutting to me is the end of the current home winning streak of 43.I don't think this will be matched again in our lifetimes or ever? Would be great if they can reach 50.
Really though right now there is this feeling of dominance and inevitability about the all blacks that I haven't felt since their 23 game unbeaten run between 1987-90 when that pack was so dominant and there was daylight between them and everyone else. Even when they had their perfect season a couple of years back there were still several close games like the last minute win over Ireland etc *. All they need to do now is sack Read and the comparison for me will be pretty complete.
(*edit: except for the WC semi v SA where I was at twickers surrounded by bokke fans and completely bricking myself the whole match - i really hated that game).
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@GM1 said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@Rancid-Schnitzel Nope. Those early misses by Barrett might have been really costly in different circumstances. You sad potential, fair enough. Barrett's speed is unreal and vision with ball in hand fantastic (as was Carter in his pomp), Carter's defence, placekicking, passing and running game (in his prime) second to none. World points scoring record and clutch droppie in WC final. Carter is the greatest of all time.
Nope what? Nope he doesn't have the potential?
I never said he was better than Carter now and in my next post I said Carter was GOAT10 by a long way.Yeah sorry i read your other post after that. Yes he does have the potential and he’s the best 10 in the world. He has x factor in spades.
The abs have been winning so easily (in no small part to BB) that he’s not yet been called on to take the serious pressure kicks that win and lose games. It will be interesting to see where he is a year from now once other coaches and players have had a better look at him. Knowing what he can do being able to stop him is not the same thing of course. Eventually he will lose some of that speed and will need those other elements to have a long career and be a true great and rise above the likes of Spencer, Mehrts, Fox, Larkham, Botha, Potra, Wilco etc let alone DC.
Different eras obviously and (for example) Fox’s metronomic goal kicking and territorial game were enormous assets back then with attack and defensive from a first five not so important -while the running and distribution skills BB brings add a lot to the overall game plan right now .
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@Rancid-Schnitzel Nope. Those early misses by Barrett might have been really costly in different circumstances. You sad potential, fair enough. Barrett's speed is unreal and vision with ball in hand fantastic (as was Carter in his pomp), Carter's defence, placekicking, passing and running game (in his prime) second to none. World points scoring record and clutch droppie in WC final. Carter is the greatest of all time.
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@Stargazer It is a confidence thing, not meaning to sound arrogant but never felt worried or that the ABs might lose even at 24-22. forty three wins at home on the bounce not by accident.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Unco" data-cid="599909" data-time="1469402029">
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<p>Personally, I want them to embrace and fix up the conference format instead. Just go with two conferences (Aus/NZ and Africa), have x number of crossover games between conferences and have conference finals based purely on performance within those conferences, with the final between the Aus/NZ and Africa conference winners.</p>
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<p>I'm not sure I could get my head around always having an SA team in the final, although I know that's how the US conference systems need to work. Probably the most realistic way to make the existing conference format work though.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="599915" data-time="1469402724">
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<p>Does anyone <strong>really</strong> give a fuck?</p>
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<p>Based on the dwindling crowd sizes these days, most probably don't.</p> -
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/82432701/vanquished-stormers-criticise-super-rugbys-new-format-after-loss-to-chiefs'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/82432701/vanquished-stormers-criticise-super-rugbys-new-format-after-loss-to-chiefs</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Ok, so when the coach of the team that finished ranked third in the regular season has had enough, perhaps it is time to seriously reconsider things here.</p>
<p>The objective of the conference system was, I think, primarily to reduce travel, promote player welfare, and make the completion fairer esp for the SA teams. Well, ironically this new format has resulted in the Lions leaving their entire first-choice team at home rather than travel to Argentina for the final regular season game, in addition to leaving other sides like the Stormers undercooked as pointed out by their coach.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Let’s look at the Highlanders’ schedule since June. Remember this is the team that finished on 52 points, 1 behind the Hurricanes (but only good enough to make them 5<sup>th</sup> apparently).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1. Sit around for four weeks while the All Blacks play three tests against a side that’s not beaten them since the 1950’s.</p>
<p>2. Fly to South Africa via Australia</p>
<p>3. Fly to Argentina v Brazil</p>
<p>4. Return to Dunedin via Auckland</p>
<p>5. Fly to Canberra via Sydney</p>
<p>6. Fly to South Africa for a semi final, where I expect it will all finally catch up with them and they will be knocked out (although they did manage to win the comp last year playing their last 13 games in consecutive weeks so I do hold a glimmer of hope).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>So much for the improved travel factor leaving them playing one home game in over two months.</p>
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<p>If the commercial reality dictates that Aussie and SA must have home quarters, well: Fleck has just slapped that right back, and the 13 people in Canberra who showed up the other evening (admittedly in atrocious conditions) seemed equally enthused. In the long term the reduced integrity of a competition that does not have the best teams positioned at the business end of the season outweighs these short term local commercial considerations. The quarter finals – the first time eight teams have faced off in a playoff weekend – were a yawn-fest with only one of the four games being close. (The real rugby begins next week now we are down to the last four, just like back in the days of the super 12.)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>A geographically based conference system makes sense in North America where the distances are big but the logistics and time zones remain manageable. It does not work across multiple continents. So let’s return to a round robin format. We do also need to accept we have an 18-team competition where teams and player depth can develop over time, and that allows room to expand, so:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Premier division: The five NZ teams, Tahs, Brumbies, Lions, Sharks (or Stormers instead of Blues)</p>
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<p>That is nine teams. Home and away round robin = 16 rounds. Top 4 qualify for semi finals. Bottom team gets relegated to division 1. This would be awesome as every game would be like a pressure cooker must win with five of the nine teams at any given time either being in a title-shot position or in the relegation spot.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Division 1 would be the remaining teams with the top four paying semi finals and the winner being promoted to the premier division the following year. That would be a great game as a curtain raiser to the premier grand final that would draw a ton of viewers although overall viewer-ship during the year for the division 1 games would be a challenge. (Still, how many SA derby games have you watched this year?) Alternatively there could be some (limited) cross divisional games to keep overall interest up and a single round robin within each division making the season a bit shorter and sweeter.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The premier division would remain at nine teams making it the world’s elite rugby competition. Division 1 could expand over time to include a team from Vancouver or perhaps a Pacific Islands team based out of Albany, or whatever.</p>
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<p>I’m sure there are flaws with this that people will point out – the main one being the travel factor for the SA teams being the very thing that prompted the change from round robin to a conference system in the first place, and maybe I am missing something obvious - not enough SA teams in the premier division to make it commercially viable probably (so they should play better rugby and get more teams up there over time?) but surely this couldn't be worse that the current screwed up format. I've had enuf.</p> -
<p>Was trying to figure out who might get to host the final if they make it that far. Canes obviously if they keep winning. Haven't done every single combination but I think these would be the semi finals assuming both Hurricanes and Highlanders win their quarters. Travel factor before the final will be huge.</p>
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<p>Hurricanes 1 v Crusaders 7</p>
<p>Highlanders 5 v Chiefs 6</p>
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<p>Hurricanes 1 v Chiefs 6</p>
<p>Lions 2 v Highlanders 5</p>
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<p>Hurricanes 1 v Crusaders 7</p>
<p>Stormers 3 v Highlanders 5</p>
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<p>Hurricanes 1 v Highlanders 5</p>
<p>Lions 2 v Stormers 3</p> -
<p>Massive upset!</p>
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<p>Totally deserved</p> -
<p>ok so the conference system looks a bit flawed with 3 of the 4 nz teams having to play all games away in the playoffs yet the justification for this geographic based system is that it is supposed to reduce teams' travel burden?</p>
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<p>BS. take the Highlanders for example: they have to fly to South Africa this week, then next week fly across the globe to Argentina, then the following week fly back to NZ for their final regular game. Then the week after that they get to fly back to South Africa for a QF then fly back to Australasia where they would still have to win an away SF and away final to retain the title. pretty tall order methinks.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>i miss the simple round robin super 14. time to change this to a 2 tier comp that everyone understands with promotion-relegation. there is going to be mega travel anyway so get rid of these lopsided games and playing some teams twice and others not at all, and stopping the whole comp for a month. this needs fixing.</p> -
<p>Not sure it was wrong going for it at 7-13 down. One conv try would have given them the lead, and probably the win as England looked out on their feet. They had to back themselves and more chance of that one score happening I think than getting down there another 2 times and kicking three penalties in total to get the win. So the tactic was ok it was their execution that let them down. White line fever and lack of patience.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="577826" data-time="1462617294">
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<p>Jesus.<br><br>
How the hell could they play the game after something like that? Imagine being a player and trying to concentrate with dozens of dead and dying people just metres away. Fark me.</p>
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<p>I remember watching it on TV and before the game the commentators were suggesting the officials decided the continue with the game as they feared a complete riot if it was called off.</p>
Ireland v NZ - Chicago Showdown & Dublin Duel
Ireland v NZ - Chicago Showdown & Dublin Duel
Aaron Smith naughty boy?
Aaron Smith naughty boy?
All Pinks vs Boks - Christchurch
All Pinks vs Boks - Christchurch
All Pinks vs Boks - Christchurch
B&I Lions 2017
14 in a row!
All Blacks vs Pumas I
All Blacks vs Pumas I
All Blacks vs Pumas I
Time to fix flawed Super Rugby conference format
Time to fix flawed Super Rugby conference format
Time to fix flawed Super Rugby conference format
Super Rugby - Who's it going to be?
Djoker Slam; pro tennis 2016
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England to whitewash Australia
Hillsborough