The Silver Fern

@Landers92 said in Sevu Reece - in trouble again:

To be thrown a lifeline by NZR and the Crusaders and to then do that and throw it back in their face is something else. Keep in mind Razor was the coach that wanted to give him a chance back then too. Really hope we never see him in the AB jersey again, embarrassing he was even an AB this year with it hanging over his head. You can’t tell me management didn’t know about it…

I saw him at the Christchurch cup day(the night this happened) and he was absolutely munted, not a care in the world for how he was carrying on. Just a bad look all round. Should 100% be charged, everyone else would.

My understanding is he was charged. Then discharged without conviction by the judge - for the second time. Which means the judge understood he was guilty but chose not issue an official punishment.

@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:

@reprobate

DP is taller and heavier than Read, heavier than Kaino, Sititi is 3kg heavier than Kaino, heavier than Read, Blackadder is the same height and weight as Kaino. Lakai is 110kg the same weight as Kaino.

Savea is really the only outlier, Jacobson and Cane are same weight as McCaw, I don't think you could be further off the mark.

Papali'i is listed as 193cm which I think is pretty close to the mark and Jacobson is a similar height. De Groot is listed as 190cm.

Kaino is listed as 196cm and Read 193cm but I wouldn't be surprised if these figures were the other way round.

Savea is listed as 190cm and Rieko is listed as 189cm but Rieko is clearly taller

Akira is listed as 194cm and Suafoa is listed as 196cm

I'd say a lot of the listing figures seem like BS.

Experience only gets you so far. France had 300 less caps than us in the starting XVs but ultimately they won because their players were better than ours. There wasn't anything special about their game plan.

Actual rugby ability will ultimately beat experience if you do the basics right.

We couldn't even kick to the corner and score from a lineout maul. Something they did in one of their 3 tries to our 2
.

Picking fast wings instead of your favourite experienced Crusader player who gets burnt by a lock in the previous games.

Can anyone explain the amazing balance Robertson describes with Cane, Sititi and Savea?

I thought Kaino, Read and McCaw were balanced and this new trio is nothing like that.

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:

and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.

Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.

Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.

TBF, I think he chucked it in too early for us to really know.

What he is poor at is as a CEO, his term in charge of HB was terrible.

True. We know however that Wayne Smiths ABs won 11 out of their first 14. One more than Razor. Interesting that Smith deemed that to be such a failure that he should reapply for his job.

And then NZR fell for a grifter who had no head coach success himself, who gained some success as a head coach in conjunction with a successful Super coach using a successful Blues gameplan until he missed a vital part of it (forwards) in the one match that mattered.

I find this a bit confusing. Which one is the grifter?

Mitchell. He had two seasons as Chiefs coach before getting the AB job. He was essentially fired from Sale before that.

Oh. For a moment I thought Foster or Robertson were the grifters.

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:

and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.

Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.

Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.

TBF, I think he chucked it in too early for us to really know.

What he is poor at is as a CEO, his term in charge of HB was terrible.

True. We know however that Wayne Smiths ABs won 11 out of their first 14. One more than Razor. Interesting that Smith deemed that to be such a failure that he should reapply for his job.

And then NZR fell for a grifter who had no head coach success himself, who gained some success as a head coach in conjunction with a successful Super coach using a successful Blues gameplan until he missed a vital part of it (forwards) in the one match that mattered.

I find this a bit confusing. Which one is the grifter?

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:

and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.

Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.

Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.

TBF, I think he chucked it in too early for us to really know.

What he is poor at is as a CEO, his term in charge of HB was terrible.

True. We know however that Wayne Smiths ABs won 11 out of their first 14. One more than Razor. Interesting that Smith deemed that to be such a failure that he should reapply for his job.

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

The passes from the tight forward are 50/50 often going either behind the player losing momentum or not to the player at all.

Sure some come off but half of them put us on the back foot

Three posts ago you were arguing that they should know how to pass by now?

That comment I meant for the backs. That's still a problem for them too when it shouldn't be. Tight forwards shouldn't be expected to assist in backline moves

Apart from off set piece, is there such a thing now? And, my comment stands for rugby players, it's not positional.

I also can't see how we'll have effective phase play if we don't have forwards who can effectively handle the ball, that's exactly where the NH has caught up.

Yup forwards should mostly do moves with forwards.

The Crusaders used the same pattern the ABs used extensively this year and had the same issues. The Blues rarely used the 'out the back door' pattern. The proof is in the pudding.

Moving goalposts here.

Even the Blues Attack structure has forwards participating in phase play.

So, is your point that you don't like our pod system with down runners and the guy on the wrap?

I've said that many times about the 'out the back door' play.

The Blues forwards are focused in the narrow channels.

None of what I have said contradicts that. Not sure how you think it's moving the goal posts but what ever.

The wrap around tight forwards is a rubbish play when used over and over again. It leads to handling errors and backs not running hard and straight but sideways.

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

The passes from the tight forward are 50/50 often going either behind the player losing momentum or not to the player at all.

Sure some come off but half of them put us on the back foot

Three posts ago you were arguing that they should know how to pass by now?

That comment I meant for the backs. That's still a problem for them too when it shouldn't be. Tight forwards shouldn't be expected to assist in backline moves

Apart from off set piece, is there such a thing now? And, my comment stands for rugby players, it's not positional.

I also can't see how we'll have effective phase play if we don't have forwards who can effectively handle the ball, that's exactly where the NH has caught up.

Yup forwards should mostly do moves with forwards.

The Crusaders used the same pattern the ABs used extensively this year and had the same issues. The Blues rarely used the 'out the back door' pattern. The proof is in the pudding.

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

The passes from the tight forward are 50/50 often going either behind the player losing momentum or not to the player at all.

Sure some come off but half of them put us on the back foot

Three posts ago you were arguing that they should know how to pass by now?

That comment I meant for the backs. That's still a problem for them too when it shouldn't be. Tight forwards shouldn't be expected to assist in backline moves

The passes from the tight forward are 50/50 often going either behind the player losing momentum or not to the player at all.

Sure some come off but half of them put us on the back foot

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:

One area I've been disappointed this year is the quality of our passing - all across the team.

It's really poor.

I believe Strawbridge was around in 2023 as the skills coach

Who is that now?

You'd think the guys would know how to pass though?

To me it's related to tight forwards constantly polluting backline movies.

@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:

Context matters a bit too though.
Since the 2019 world cup we've played the South Africans 8 times in anger (I'm not counting the RWC warm up exhibition game)
And while the ledger reads 3-5 the points difference is zero (or maybe 1). And we've played them once at home, 4 times in south africa and 3 neutral. That's pretty good against this so called generational SA team.

France we haven't played outside France since 2018. And I'll let you guess when the last time they beat us prior to that 2021 win.

We're very close to the equal of any side at the moment but we're just not quite getting over the line. There isn't a gulf to cross.

I would expect us to go close to 5-0 getting to play France and SA in NZ next year.

Losing because you're playing away never used to be an excuse for the ABs.

@booboo said in All Blacks 2024:

But back to my original point seeing how I digressed, these seemingly unbeatable behemoths of South Africa, France (and a month ago Ireland and England) are a myth. They're good, but we can beat them as much as they can beat us.

We haven't beaten France since 2018. In the last two years we've won 1 our of 5 tests against South Africa.

How is that beating them just as much as they beat us?

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024:

@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:

@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:

@frugby you say 'let's see what Super Rugby brings'

A number of guys carved up in Super Rugby this year and were barely given an opportunity.

Lam
Love
Proctor

Etc etc

And the irony is - for the most part - the guys who were given a shot in black on the back of Super rugby form looked good.

Meanwhile these established guys rack up test after test with mediocrity (Havili, ALB, Rieko, Jacobson etc).

Havili and ALB have had their time. Absolutely need to introduce new options there. Neither offers enough. Reiko still has something in him, but how do we unlock it consistently?

Give him some time and space for one thing. Plummer seemed to do it during Super. Of course the Blues backs stood a little deeper

I am not sure about RI getting more space in Super rugby. That's not how the Blues used their midfield. I recall asking Blue's fans during the season if they were happy with RI's form, because I had noticed him being rather inconspicuous. The gist of the replies suggested he was doing the tight stuff.

Also, from memory, RI didn't score a try during the Super Season. That too would suggest he wasn't playing in space.

I thought AJ Lam was better at 13 this year than Rieko for the Blues. Rieko did a serviceable job but had a bad concussion in the middle of the season and never got out of 3rd gear in terms of form after that.

@booboo said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

France and South Africa have some serious depth and high calibre players.

They're tough, smart and they use their bench well. I think their playmakers/game managers are better than ours.

So good they barely scrape past us ...

France have beat us comfortably the previous two times. They had a bunch of key players out in the game we just played and I don't think they got our of third gear.

South Africa beat us with their A team and their B team.

@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:

i feel like every coach, when they first get an International gig, tries the old flat backline. And then rissoles it after a year when they realise they can't make it work.

Is it Sir Wayne Smiths influence? He seems like an idealist. He said he despises mauls and he's the head of performance and Razor's mentor. There's nothing pragmatic about our current attack and it's very predictable.

@sparky said in All Blacks 2024:

I am trying to work out what's gone so wrong with our backline.

These are my guesses.

1. Aging players are kept in the squad when once upon a time two bad performances would have led to the selectors hitting the ejector seat button.

2. Some of our backs ain't fast enough.

3. Our backs ain't spending enough time together on the training paddock working on combinations, attacking angles and the timing of passes.

I'd welcome other suggestions.

The attack pattern is rubbish.

Too many tight forwards involved with crappy backdoor passing and the inside backs running sideways.

How many times did we see Jordie on the crash ball this year?

He was very effective in that role when he an Ioane first started working together but it's not part of the current game plan.

There's virtually zero players running straight and drawing and passing. This is a basic fundamental of the game which is excluded from the current attack plan

@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:

What happened to Levi Aumua, by the way, was he a one trick pony or just not well used at the Crusaders?

He looked 10kg overweight at the Crusaders.

@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks 2024:

knee jerk reaction for the 2025 season - fowards generally not too bad this year..... backs.... hard to pencil anyone in outside of 9

1. Ethan de Groot / Williams ----- pen them in.
2. Codie Taylor / Aumua ------ pen them in
3. Tyrel Lomax / Fletcher Newell --------------- pen them in
4. Scott Barrett --- Shadow of the player he was last two years - captaincy not suiting him?
5. Patrick Tuipulotu - probably his best season in black - Pen him in
   (LOCKING pleasingly we have good competition in the locking department so pick on form)
6. Wallace Sititi - PEN HIM IN probably 8 --- ridiculous we needed an injury to see him selected
7. Sam Cane - warrior -- thanks for the service -- position available ffs please pick on form. (Lakai possibly leading contender)
8. Ardie Savea - passed his use by date - needs to earn selection
9. Cam Roigard -- I'd pen him in but Ratima and Hotham are not bad so would select on form.
10. Beauden Barrett at least 3 years passed his used by date
    10 Damian McKenzie -- a better option than BB but like BBs dinky kicks.. Dmac can go sideways headless chicken a bit too much - POSITION OPEN - we need to be brave and select on form
11. Caleb Clarke - his best season and only outside back Id keep on form
12. Anton Lienert-Brown . Jordie / good D zero creativity - position open
13. Rieko Ioane -- Good D zero creativity - position open
14. Mark Tele’a / Reece -- see yas we need youth and speed
15. Will Jordan -- try scoring machine but I am not convinced -- select position on form and ffs choose a specialist 15 please

Unfortunately we have some how got to the point that players retain the jersey far too easily - selections should be ruthlessly earned.

rant over -- see you all in 2025

Tosi over Newell every day of the week.

Tu'ungafasi has actually been the best prop on th eoy tour. Williams had some good runs but his workrate is the lowest of all the props and he was a mixed bag at the scrum.