I think if you look at the whole picture it’s clear to me that the selections of not just the wings but the whole team is about trying to capitalize on our points of difference relative to other teams. The easy conservative selections against Springboks would to choose defensively and match them. Choose Owen Franks, choose a big 6, choose Bender at fullback and Jordie on one wing to counter their kicking. Instead Hansen chooses to capitalize on our points of differences areas that we don’t just match the opposition but where they will struggle to beat us. Props who can handle, an electric back row, form wings who can finish, an irrepressible full back. I salute Hansen for making the aggressive selections and I think he was leaning that way on the wings in 2015 with NMS and Naholo, but Naholo disappointed in pool stages.

I am wary of getting pulled down twitter/facebook rabbitholes but probably helpful to add some perspective as a person of color is the US. The content of the initial letter is nothing new in the US and many countries that do contain underpriviliged and undersestimated people. I am doubtful that it was written by a black professor but that claim will always give it a bigger push. The core of the argument is familiar, always slightly different, why do light skin blacks perform better than dark skin blacks, why do black women perform better than black men, the same things were heard on plantations, in Southern Africa why do coloreds perform better than African, or elsewhere why are Tutsis better than Hutus, why are Carribean american Blacks better than African-American blacks. The common thread is that many of these differences are minimal but have roots in oppression, and were perpetuated for the benefit a few. There are a long list of ways and reasons that there effects still manifest themselves and many books which cover that ground. Yes particularly in America there is opportunity for everyone, but even successful blacks , Robert Smith, Oprah Winfrey , Lebron James who laud hard work will bring light to the extreme inequality that makes the road very tough for any young person of color. The unequal opportunity starts at kindergarten, continues through school, continues in police interactions, the legal system the list is long. The struggles are not limited to socio-economic status though this is clearly a factor. Very instructive to hear the NBA players, coaches (Doc Rivers, ) GM (Masai Ujiri) opine on their feelings and experiences and one understands the fear , anxiety and frustration to be a black man in America. Particularly Doc Rivers talking about the talk every black family must have with their young sons.

The other notable point was the idea that "Black Lives Matter" is some kind of a political, party composed of anarchists and rioters a narrative that has been effective for Trump and co but a source of frustration for most supporters who are peaceful. At its core I dont think the statement could be clearer and simpler " We matter, our lives matter, see us, help us". On the other side I do love the mobilization and voting efforts initiated by NBA players and others , making voting difficult for black people is something that has happened for years and to make this more accessible and easier can be a game changer. For the record black voters pretty much brought Biden from the brink , so lets see what happens in November.

@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@nzzp said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

I think half the problem is, up until the start of last year, the ABs thought they were perfectly positioned. And then they got muddled in their thinking, panicked, and left us in a mess. And a few chickens came home to roost as well with regards to developmental processes.

Lost faith in their senior players who fell off a cliff, didn't keep experience on the paddock, had terrible luck with injuries, missed a strong leader, and you get the volatile performances that wind up in a semifinal spanking.

In a world cup year it's a bit much to
change your back 3
constantly shuffle your midfield
change your 10
change your thinking at 6. twice.

In my mind way simpler than that, our three workhorses Rettallick, Whitelock and Read all came up empty. Read probably stuck around 2 years too long, Rettalick underdone and Whitelock nothing left in the tank.

So far it just seems to be a masterclass from Hansen and his coaches, Despite my complaints about leaving J. Ioane at home and B Smith out of the 23, the selections have been outstanding so far. The balance of experience and youth has been perfect, even if it would have been easier to go the conservative route Hansen has been aggressive and it’s paid off. The young Crusaders in the backs have repaid Hansen’s faith enormously. Also amazing is tactically the ABs seem to be adjusting to the rush defenses and defensively they also seem to be going lower in the tackle. Was always confident ABs would win by more than a try but the possibility of a hiding was material and that’s what we got. Bring on England.

I appreciate responses from some posters that I should continue dialogue and with out sounding like a softie it is difficult. I think I feel a little like Doc Rivers when he said he does not want to talk about this stuff he wants to coach and its true, talking about rugby way more fun.

I'll just go through some points super quick, I am not trying to avoid anything but lots to go through

I have seen plenty of videos like Mikethe Snow posted and it has been very frustrating for many, often the instigators I see are white but I could not venture to say what the exact numbers are by race but fair to say its the instigators are an absolute minority. I also would not write off the influence of right wing instigators, this is absolutely a factor.

I think @Rembrandt said something about 30+ murders since George Floyd, I don't even know what that means, I believe there are at least 45+ murders a day in the US in general. Outside of these protests I also would not discount general social unrest that is fermenting through the growing wealth inequality, lockdown etc, but thats a whole thread in itself.

I would repeat BLM is really about the core statement and actions that can be taken to address that statement. I know some thing that its a "cute" statement but I watch CNBC everyday and its great to see business leaders of all races taking it absolutely seriously. Perhaps that will be the first driver for change. Forget about the supposed BLM leaders or the people who have claimed websites, most people don't even know who they are. Think about the overwhelming number of blacks and majority of whites who support the statement and movement.

Sorry if I am all over the map, but just letting it all out. I saw someone mention that LeBron James said "We are scared", I can confirm , I am petrified for myself and for my family. Guaranteed every black person of all economic classes has least one person close to them who has had a jaw dropping interaction with police. For those who say just comply, that's the point, compliance is no guarantee against safety , humiliation or death, we are not making it up, its just that a fraction of these interactions are now being captured on video. And guess what unarmed people in fear of their lives sometimes act irrationally. I hear so many stories of drunk, mentally ill, or armed white kids having the most "civil" interactions with police, not sure why that same care isn't taken with all American citizens.

What about the stats you ask , ah another old time hit. But blacks are more violent , blacks commit more crime, black-on-black crime? Lets start of with black population 48million people? Enough to say that an attempt to smear the vast majority of that number with US murders and crime falls short in my opinion. And how about a higher percentage convicted than whites? I won't even get into the legal representations or overall legal system but just enough to say it would be much more informative to see the numbers broken down by socio-economic class as well as the actual numbers we are talking about with respect to population. Black-on-black crime? Not much different from white-on-white crime.

Sorry tired now.

I really don't get why Akira/Frizell is is making heads explode, I am happy for the depth. When you think historically how long the likes of Zinny, Kaino or Buck had to wait its a nonissue for Akira to wait. The rate of attrition in test rugby is so high, having 5 class loose forwards is not a problem.

@cgrant said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

People in this forum are great fans of Richie Mounga. He's had a mare : missed an easy tackle on Daly who is not the quickest fullback nor the strongest one (this led to England's first try), then could not handle the English rush defence. Let's hope he'll learn from this very disappointing performance.
The Bounga experiment was clearly a failure with BB's kicking from hand being an issue. Would DMac have done better ?

I hate the loss but I hate these kind of posts after the loss even worse. No complaints about Bounga after Wallabies, South Africa or Ireland , now its a failure? Nothing to suggest any other available combo would have done better. Really did not think Ritchie was the problem.

I think I am mostly with Bones and Booboo here in general I would say

1. Fozzie is probably not most peoples first choice but he is the coach now , I think its only fair to give him a chance.
2. Fat jokes are pretty old.
3. Not much point in comparing ABs to SA or England when we have no clue what they will be like, better to concentrate on whats in front of us for now.
4. I'll take the record so far but obviously 4 tests to go to judge the year.
5. I'll take the selections so far, plenty of debate but no disasters and has blooded 5 new ABs in the first 2 games. Selections have been pretty close to what I would have selected.

@Bones said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:

@pakman said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:

I agree with a lot of the general theme of posters about the development (or not) of AB game, but if players don't use their heads not a lot the coaching team can do.

I'm on the fence on this eh. I started off blaming the players for being stupid and still do to an extent but like I said in my first post, what the fuck is going on outside the games that is causing very accomplished players to become shells of their former selves?

A year or two ago Taylor was easily our best hooker and many were touting for Perenara over Smith. Now they look like NPC is their level. That can't all be on the players? It's so prevalent.

Yes I am struggling with this, over the last two games seem to be so many of our experienced guys who are underperforming. That’s 2 games in a row where I would struggle to find 3 MOTM candidates.

@sdrggyy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:

2019 we lost solely because of own our fault - no external factors involved.

I think England were an external factor, honestly don't think there was much between ABs, Boks and England, on any given day any of the three teams could have won imho. England caught us flat, Boks caught England flat.

@hydro11

I think this AB team has shown they can beat anyone on a given day but reasonable to say you would not have confidence that they can win three tough tests in a row.

On the bright side, happy with starting props, Papalii and Savea together, and Jordie Barrett.

@Damo said in All Blacks v England:

@DMX said in All Blacks v England:

@canefan said in All Blacks v England:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:

@Stargazer said in All Blacks v England:

Really disappointed that we gave it away. BB, take a long hard look at yourself. That comeback started with you.

Haha come on, your boy Mo'unga missed touch twice from penalties, the second one ended up with England camped on our line when we should have been on theirs. You can't single one player out for that, we looked knackered at the end of a long season and England finished very strong.

Our kick options are terrible. Barely kicked for touch when that's what was required

Agreed we have no one who can kick for territory.

That's not true. Jordie has a big kick. He should be used more.

At 12 he is more of a ball carrier I get that, but BB and Mounga have failed to lead the team around the park all year this was the worse example of that.

@kev said in All Blacks v England:

@Bovidae said in All Blacks v England:

@Stargazer The poor pass to Ioane in the 1st half. Another in the 2nd half that led to a England penalty. He did some good things but struggled when he didn't have any space.

A high pass that any centre worth is salt should have taken. Ioane’s game is littered with errors. You combine him and Caleb Clarke and our mistake rate is too high.

Error rate between,Ioane , Mounga, Taylor and Clarke is way to high to consistently win games.

@hydro11 said in All Blacks v England:

@DMX said in All Blacks v England:

@canefan said in All Blacks v England:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:

@Stargazer said in All Blacks v England:

Really disappointed that we gave it away. BB, take a long hard look at yourself. That comeback started with you.

Haha come on, your boy Mo'unga missed touch twice from penalties, the second one ended up with England camped on our line when we should have been on theirs. You can't single one player out for that, we looked knackered at the end of a long season and England finished very strong.

Our kick options are terrible. Barely kicked for touch when that's what was required

Agreed we have no one who can kick for territory.

We have Jordie Barrett! Not to mention Mounga and Beauden should both be able to do it.

Maybe I will rephrase, we have no one who is kicking for territory.

@Stargazer said in All Blacks v England:

@Bovidae I actually RM's running game and game management was excellent. Yes, two missed touch finders, but overall a good game.

Mounga was shite.

@canefan said in All Blacks v England:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:

@Stargazer said in All Blacks v England:

Really disappointed that we gave it away. BB, take a long hard look at yourself. That comeback started with you.

Haha come on, your boy Mo'unga missed touch twice from penalties, the second one ended up with England camped on our line when we should have been on theirs. You can't single one player out for that, we looked knackered at the end of a long season and England finished very strong.

Our kick options are terrible. Barely kicked for touch when that's what was required

Agreed we have no one who can kick for territory.

Crap defense at the end, we seemed to be two men down n the backs. Did not take some of our chance tbf neither did England. Complete failure by Mounga to lead the team around the park.

Horrible but at least we have a few things straight.

Papali and Savea absolutely must play together, 2 out of 3 settled in the back row.
Let’s get rid of Havilli now.
Beaudan Barrett has not been the answer at 10 for about 5 seasons, for all the blame Hansen got for the semi- final he was spot on with moving BB from 10. His kicking and game control utter shite.
Finlay Christie has had two opportunities now, and I think we know what we have and it’s not enough.
Havilli is done, we have enough options.
Can anyone really tell me Caleb Clarke is the best wing n NZ? If he does not knock someone out in the first minute not sure what he’s good for. Cannot stay upright long enough for an in and away.

What I don’t get is even if you want to keep Cane no way you can trust his decision making at Captain. What was the point of having Jordie take that kick a million miles away? Why didn’t he put another scrum down after the scrum penalty in the red zone? I think Cane should be dropped but if you don’t drop him he can’t be Captain.