Ummm well done Owen. Quite a fall from grace but by feck you were a rock for about a decade and never once showed off or sought an undue spotlight. Stoic, silent and strong is how we like our props and you were bloody good for a long time.

Well done young man, and thanks

@Jaguares4real said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:

@Crucial said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:

@Bones said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:

No Bridge? Dry powder.

It’s only a friendly

Big picture: the game is largely meaningless in a RWC Year

I'm looking for a very good performance

Below graphic is insane

Welcome back fella, but jeez I'm getting tired of your meaningless test monologues

The absolute truth is that all games are meaningless, if one subscribes to your assessment. Sport is what you want it to be. It's a voluntary leisure pursuit. The importance of it is in the minds of every participant differently.

Calling games meaningless or friendlies is just a shit can notion for losers diminishing the achievements of winners. It's a dishonorable critique of national sport, and a deliberate insult to the winners. Let the players decide what is meaningless

You're smart enough to know that and we're smart enough to know vapid trolling.

Enough already

@Rembrandt said in US Politics:

@Crucial said in US Politics:

@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:

@gollum said in US Politics:

@Rembrandt said in US Politics:

Bit of a weird law in the first place, kind of a hey look I have resolved this massive non-issue!

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/05/transgender-bathrooms-suicide/483351/

Further to the "its a non-issue!"

What a load of clap trap
Not using the bathroom they want is not causing suicides. These people have serious mental problems to even get to the point that they want to change sex. They need mental health care and supportive structures, not society giving in to their whims over bathrooms and pro nouns. Do people seriously think the suicide rate amongst these people will drop if they get to use the bathroom they want or be called a 'zwe'?
Nope. They are unwell and need proper help to understand and cope with the way they feel.

whoa! Are you seriously saying that people with gender identity issues are mentally ill?

In my above examples I would say mail room bloke definitely mental issues. Older female to male guy definitely not and unsure on the newer female to male, only knew them for a short while pre facebook. Anyone else here know any transgender folk to give some anecdotal evidence on the mental illness angle? Being gay was classified in the DSM-IV as late as the 80's. No idea how much different this is and my sample size of 3 doesn't give a whole lot of insight.

Yeah Rembrandt, my standard kiwi assumptions got a shake up after teaching secondary school in Thailand for the first decade of this century, and also working with and interacting with many "lady-boys" (Katoey is the Thai transliteration pronounced "gah toyyy"). I believe these are transgender - men born who want to be women.

The context is vital:
There is no (none) social stigma in thailand for being homosexual. No vehement vicious teasing, no turning your nose up, no real pressure in society, no Victorian "ickiness" that dominates Anglo Saxon attitudes on this subject, but more of "who cares up to them" attitude.

Actually the Thais will apply the same amount of peer pressure and disgust for bizarre concepts (to us) like skin colour or body shape - white and fat means you work inside and have plenty of food therefore are not a dumb poor peasant.

I taught at a prestigious Thai Catholic school, all boys (an Eton equivalent if you like) and my students were from 12-17 years, so right through puberty.
I';m going to call them ladyboys and girls because they would and over there, and to me, it carries no negative connotations.

Each class had about 10% ladyboys. I watched these kids over years go through puberty where our sexuality is hard wired.

These girls developed their preferences and behaviour in an environment where no special significance was placed on their behaviour. No teasing, no trying to change them, no bullying - nothing like the equivalent in our western schools. Other boys moved around them, played around them, were civil to them, in fact the only good natured ribbing they got was from me, their teacher! our behavioural traits are hard to change. Honestly, one straight kid, in good nature, once advised me "do you have to make lame jokes about the girls sir?" - classic!

So in a society where there is no advantage or attention seeking mechanism or other secondary motivation to be gay or transgender these kids just did it (for want of a better phrase)

typically the girls were excellent students, best in English, kind courteous, diligent, hard working and just pleasant human beings. they had all the coloured pens and stickers and flowery girly books and loved my little pony, hello kitty, pink, fashion magazines and make up and all the things you'd expect your 11 daughter to do.

The boys interacted just like they were "normal" - to them they were - they were actually really respectful in the main, well as respectful to peers as any puberty kids are at a school

The girls sexuality was never a distinction whatsoever

No signs of mental illness whatsoever

I was intrigued with all of this. Couldn't work out why you'd choose to live like this. i had difficulty reconciling years of kiwi conditioning until it dawned on me that this wasn't a choice at all.
They were just living their preferences in a society that demonstrated no ill will against them.

I spoke to fathers of the girls and asked if they minded them being girls and the men looked at me quizitively and countered with "he's" smart caring, and a lovely child. How he develops is out of my hands, I love him like all my kids"

I think the neutral unbiased setting of these transitions strengthened my belief that these are the cards they're dealt and because every other facet of their life was normal or even impressive.
The result now i couldn't give a rats arse what sexual preference people have, (it's about as relevant as the difference between a hetero bloke who doesn't like giving oral sex to a woman and one who does - i couldn't give a shit and it's not a determinant to what sort of place someone takes up in society.

Frankly I can't wait till expressing any sort of sexuality is responded to by "meh" - about as relevant as what vegetables you like to eat and what you don't . long may celebrity or attention seeking homosexuality be a thing of the past.

But I digress. Anecdote number 2 is a "woman" i met with my wife and got to know for about 4 years. She died a couple of months ago. I'll call her Nat.
Many posters on here would laugh, cringe and scoff at nat if they saw her. A normal sized tAsian fella with long hair and a pair of cracking tits. Nat definately looked strange and could be a poster boy for the people many think of when contemplating the freak nature of transgenders.

i don't say this lightly but Nat has proven to me to never judge a book by it's cover. I've never met a more caring trusting considerate person in all my nearly 50 years.
This woman would cook for everyone or anyone, would actually drop what she was doing to help (not just say it) and would stay by a bedside for 48 hours at time. She would regularly put her own life activities on hold for others and was loyal and protective to the end - nursed my wife while I was overseas and Nat was on dialysis and dying.

Truly a far better person than me or anyone I know, yet a freak to those who judge with no information and no knowledge.

So @Rembrandt, my experiences don't prove anything but to me they are experiences that validate that judging people on perceptions is folly.

As for the toilet thing, in my experience the transgenders that i knew didn't want to impose their lives on others and would make do going to the toilet and keeping a low profile, they also had/have the wherewithall to know that they were happy in their skin and would cast suspicion of those transgenders that did impose themselves- i.e. is this about us transgenders or actually about yourself as an individual seeking attention or leveraging your sexuality for more nefarious means and not the benefit of our cohort.

as for all transgenders have mental illnesses, well let me counter with an equally spurious all forum posters who name themselves after cartoon characters have mental illnesses....

no validity either way, just a perception borne from ignorance.

sorry Rembrandt, a bit long but bloody genuine

RIP "Nat" a truly great little person

@JC said in No kids, any regrets?:

Well for us kids just weren’t an option sadly. We tried everything but when we first got all the tests done they told us it would be extremely unlikely and they were right. The never ending hormone treatments permanently damaged Mrs JC’s health - one of the fertility experts guilt tripped her into some pretty extreme treatments by saying if she had any second thoughts then she just didn’t want kids enough. So now she’s got anxiety attacks, near constant IBS, blinding headaches about 50% of every month, excruciating period pain, everything except the child she desperately wanted and still misses. The kicker is she is a amazing with kids and would have been the most awesome Mum. Sometimes you just have to laugh because the alternative is you’d never stop crying.

Many thanks JC, I was wondering if my story was applicable to this thread.
We had a very similar experience and while my wife hasn't been affected to quite the same extent as your good wife, she too has had that hormone treatment totally fuck with her innards and still suffers to this day - perhaps 10 years later.

The above also coincidentally describes our situation more succinctly than I ever could, right down to the "jesus she'd be a good mum" bit.

My thoughts on IVF
The day you find out it's not going to happen naturally is a day spent wailing bucket loads of tears and a firm confirmation that nothing could ever hurt you emotionally as this is right now. It's a shitty and memorable day.

So then you embark on the emotional paradox that is IVF.

Its a fluffybunny

You see, the pertinent factor is 30%, well it was when we did it.

You're basically betting on the Black Caps beating Australia in any given game from 2000 to ..., well probably now!

So the whole thing is 28 days of that "hope so but probably not" conundrum every minute of the day but the stakes are the highest in your life.

You've got to be positive but you know how hard you're going to fall when the first painter turns up in 3 weeks...again. That's why it's such a rollercoaster. I remember gazing at the doctor thinking what an extraordinary life he has in that, in the space of a morning he can either painfully ruin or ecstatically complete a woman's entire life. Maybe even in the space of 2 appointments. Freaky places fertility clinics.

Basically they arm you with nifty syringe dispensing gadgets and boxes of vials that you keep in your fridge. Every morning Wifey turns the dial on the gadget and injects it into her tummy. I'm guessing that's the bugger responsible for the after effects.
Then clinic visits, stirrups, looking at magnified eggs on a screen and being told to pick one ? Some wanking. An implant visit and then a couple of weeks (I think, I try to forget) of fretting and the wife lying still.
Then it doesn"t work and you board the merry go round again

But then there is the masturbatorium

We used the best cliic in bkk and then a state run one,(state had the clinic doctors but only those good hearted enough to do a couple of mornings a week for free - fine people).

At either, the bloke must supply some pollen. The clinic had a small lounge sized, tastefully furnished mastabatorium with a comfy sofa and a massive tv. Windowless, but there is a sliding hatch for completion. Pre-Programming allows one a myriad of porn choices from all corners of the globe and magazines I didn't even look over.
I was in there about an hour I think the nurses said.

The state was a tiny toilet/janitor closet where my true professionalism came to the fore.

So the IVF at 30% ain't no picnic but please don't let that distract from the joy for those that were there the day McMillan and McCullum went nuts. Really pleased for all doting parents. Bitterness doesn't lie there.

Stepping over trafficked babies being held by non maternal trafficked beggars on the bkk pavements everyday steels the soul though.

A word of advice if you meet a couple who tell you they're on the merry go round, don't talk. Just listen and wish luck. For the love of god don't give the "My sister/cousin/aunt/friend got pregnant by that" anecdote because it comes across like a fait accompli, and really irked, well to me anyway.

Met some women on their 10th go or some such. It's a desperate state to be in with the only certainty being that plain shit luck has led you to walk into this particular clinic or hospital.

Also we learned to avoid mates kids baby birthday partys back in the day.

Absolute full power to those that chose no kids, we did too in the end, we weren't in a fair dinkum position to adopt. Sounds like all of us have benefitted from our choices and circumstances and life always supplies other paddocks to ponder.

Oh and those people that treat animals like kids... there might be a decent reason

Thanks for the therapy, haven't thought about that shit for a while

Hey, fuck off with your "I'm too cool to watch the All Blacks" virtue signalling shit.
Fuck off to the horse thread

@Yeetyaah we've been calling them the clan for nigh on 20 years on here, young fella

An awful lot of arrogance and nonsense talk on this thread as far as I can see

Bored with the All Blacks winning? Fuck off

Not entertaining enough for you ? fuck off

Not feeling emotions like you want to? fuck off

You in this thing for the All Blacks and what that organisation achieves and accomplishes or how much entertainment you're entitled too?

Fuck off with your 15 second attention span.

Real rugby supporters will once again welcome the physical and tactical battle with the old foe (and friends), the ABs will be hugely psyched and me behind them supporting all their efforts and appreciating the Boks, regardless of their success.

See that's what the ABs represent - striving for excellence, winning and being humble and respectful in the process

You won't catch them bemoaning the relative ability of the opposition or counting wins before they're earned.

I can't wait for another showdown between us and the Saffas, always a great occasion

and lastly, fuck off

Can I suggest the wallabies just simply shut the fuck up?

We've played and beaten the Welsh Argues and Saffas with nary a bitter word or exchange yet all year (international and super rugby) from Australian rugby folk and coaches have been whinging about refereeing, whinging about foul play whinging about humility, whinging about the media.

Enough already. Take your thrashings (because that's what they've been) like a fair dinkum Aussie bloke and suck it up. That's what they expect of others.

Conversely win more than 3 games a fucking season and we might concede you've not had a particularly good rub of the green.

Christ on a bike it's been tiresome and repetitive all year.

Chinese might have to add a new horoscope- 2016 the year of the pissing and moaning wallaby.

Well played little nerdy looking fella who got pilloried high and low when he took over a poisoned chalice.

He stuck to his guns and contributed to us fans enjoying and being able to be proud of a decent and hard working team.

He's certainly earned some great cricketing jobs that will no doubt come his way in the future.

Well done fella

@canefan said in US Politics:

@Siam said in US Politics:

@No-Quarter I really really struggle with the notion that the lives of my grandparent's grandparents have any influence on me in the year 2020.

To subscribe to that flimsy theory is to confirm that a race of people are all born inferior to those born with no "documented" slavery.

Show me a population or society where absolutely everyone is in poverty, and I'll reconsider the idea of " ancestral oppression "

You're white aren't you mate....?

Well, since you asked, here is my Pepeha:

Ko Tiheia te maunga
Ko Te Waimimi o Pekehaua te awa
Ko Ngatirangiwewehi te hapuu
Ko Te Arawa te waka
Ko Tamatekapua te tangata
Ko Whakaue raua ko Tamatera oku tupuna o mua
Ko Tawakeheimoa te Tupuna Whare
Ko Te Aongahoro te Wharekai
Ko Tarimano te Marae
Ko Haana Ngaki raua ko Te Kapaiwaho toku tupuna wahine
Ko Rangimakehu Ainsley tana tamahine
Ko Hineiri

My Whakapa has Tamatekapua at the top.

I'm sorry mate, I'm Maori, just like all my cousins and uncles and auntys. Can't help it, born that way.

What does that do to the words that formed my opinion? Does it change them?

What on earth has a person's skin or dna have to do with expressing an idea?

"I am sure you can look right through NZ history and find examples of the indigenous people being screwed over by those in charge."

Can I use my very own one of these examples?

Will that give me a seat at the table to express an idea?

Will that earn me enough points to expand on my parroting of Thomas Sowell, David Webb, Coleman Hughes, Ronnie Coleman, Larry Elder, and other credentialed black american scholars and journalists?

I have no ideas or claims of my own on the US racial issue - none of us can have and that's understood - so therefore our arguments will always be sourced from someone else in America.

I've found that the intellectuals version of the tribulations of black america to be a far more compelling (and equally saddening) narrative compared to the narrative from 20 years of race grifters and news anchors and teenagers screaming systemic racism, never showing where, and yet it apparently has gotten worse. The same people in charge of the money for fighting racism are the ones always screaming how worse it's getting. hmmm

We know the miniscule value our opinions on anything we're not first hand connected to, hold - that's what the applause to photo fox was all about, and the authenticity to Crazy horse's work observations. It's a given. But the source of our info has to be open to scrutiny. scrutiny of details. I'll take Coleman Hughes over Don Lemon anyday.

My application for the brown infinity stone, (the only one I'm elligible for by birthright ):

So, it turns out I'm the bastard great grandson of a late Supreme Court Judge. Apparently the highest in the land at one stage.

That's my Nana's father. She's also a bastard, obviously.

Yep, ol judgey had 2 kids to my great granny, 2 years apart. Never married and then was whistled back to Auckland to earn his way towards his knighthood. Never any contact with his kids ever again except for a parcel of books and pencils prior to them starting school in the 1930's.

As mum often remarked "I wonder how many absent fathers he prosecuted or ordered to pay child support on his way through the judicial system?"

Nana did occasionally see her father on TV during coverage of Arthur Allen Thomas trials and such and it fits now that they were the only times she stopped and sat and watched the news. We were all quiet at those times, and nothing was ever said about her father while she was alive.

The herald did a tell all expose about it after Judgey's death, so I guess it's a matter for public record now. Silly nephew of Nana tried to get some money for our family secret but only succeeded in irritating the scar tissue of a nicely healed wound. The worst part was the paper getting it drastically wrong and my Nana at age 80 facing the indignity of reading about her death 2 years ago in New Zealand's premier newspaper. Aunty told me Nana just exhaled "Huurrumph", folded the newspaper and spent the rest of the day alone in the sun porch. We got an apology from the herald after Nana died but the same mistake is still there. Strike off the herald as a trusted source of accurate news.

The article is called The Judge, The Maori Princess and the secret family. Haven't heard anything in the family about granny being a princess, so thanks Herald.

So the judge shacked up with my granny. hung around for a couple of years siring 2 kids then buggered off to fame and fortune never again acknowledging his first kids who both lived to their eightys.
There's a bit of oppression there right? A shot at the victim olympics? All that white privilidge missed out on? A piece of the will? Something surely? I always wanted to be famous enough to do one of those "where did I come" from geneology tv shows...

I guess Nana could have chosen to be bitter over her paternity situation. She could have passed down her hurt and trauma from her father to us. She could have filled our heads with the "realities" of white authority. Today her story would get applause and fawning from the right audience, but still it's her choice on how she deals with that pain that a powerful white man caused, through no fault of her own.

Turns out she chose to take that hurt and injustice on her own. To shield her kids from growing up bitter and pointing at things and people that denied us a perfect upbringing and family history.

Perhaps she realised she could keep the pain away from her kids and and mokopuna because times change and she knew none of her daughters would have to go through the ingnomy of watching an absent father, adulated from afar, in the future world. Different times, then and now.

Perhaps she had a choice at her kids view of the world and their place in it.

She chose that no one would ever call us victims. She chose it was her burden to bear and it all ended there with her.

It's the same message coming from Hughes, Webb, Sowell and Elder, and a large section of the black community. It's just one way of looking at this situation, and it has some merit and some familiarity to me.

So can we explore the notion of ancestral oppression and discover strong evidence that the black situation in america is primarily due to racism or due to poverty or something else?

And can we agree that a ferners skin colour plays no importance on this site whatsover? The content of their words first??

All good canefan

Wow, we won a big one against Oz, and did it easy. Not a common occurrence at all.

Phillips innings was bloody impressive.

Kane backing and bowling those part time spinners was huge. Fortune favouring the brave

Can we riff about the countback criteria that will rob us again?

Count back of curries consumed over 5 days?

Number of spurious appeals?

Biggest bank account wins?

Fan vote?

Number of shit cricket videos on YouTube?

Number of deceptive/fake titles on YouTube as you type in India vs England test highlights?

143 to win. Entirely up to us now

Please have a plan to push it around at 6ish an over

Cricket gods finally paying attention

@booboo yes, obviously. The lack of work on his keeping is the issue

Our fielding has been noteworthy this series. Seen a lot of players swearing at themselves

Never been entirely comfortable at Seiferts keeping. Hasn't really improved a lot over the years. Certainly
seen him tidy and occasionally brilliant but cruel fact is that, like goalkeeping, you're judged more on the one's you miss than get.

We're staying in this game adequately

@booboo it's been painful all series

Lazy from Southee, pretty fucked really.

Santner thankfully distracts us from it

Kane trolling by giving everyone a bowl