@Rembrandt said in US Politics:

@Crucial said in US Politics:

@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:

@gollum said in US Politics:

@Rembrandt said in US Politics:

Bit of a weird law in the first place, kind of a hey look I have resolved this massive non-issue!

Olga Khazan / May 19, 2016 / Health

The Overwhelming Stress of Being Denied a Bathroom

Transgender people who don’t have access to bathrooms are more likely to attempt suicide.

Further to the "its a non-issue!"

What a load of clap trap
Not using the bathroom they want is not causing suicides. These people have serious mental problems to even get to the point that they want to change sex. They need mental health care and supportive structures, not society giving in to their whims over bathrooms and pro nouns. Do people seriously think the suicide rate amongst these people will drop if they get to use the bathroom they want or be called a 'zwe'?
Nope. They are unwell and need proper help to understand and cope with the way they feel.

whoa! Are you seriously saying that people with gender identity issues are mentally ill?

In my above examples I would say mail room bloke definitely mental issues. Older female to male guy definitely not and unsure on the newer female to male, only knew them for a short while pre facebook. Anyone else here know any transgender folk to give some anecdotal evidence on the mental illness angle? Being gay was classified in the DSM-IV as late as the 80's. No idea how much different this is and my sample size of 3 doesn't give a whole lot of insight.

Yeah Rembrandt, my standard kiwi assumptions got a shake up after teaching secondary school in Thailand for the first decade of this century, and also working with and interacting with many "lady-boys" (Katoey is the Thai transliteration pronounced "gah toyyy"). I believe these are transgender - men born who want to be women.

The context is vital:
There is no (none) social stigma in thailand for being homosexual. No vehement vicious teasing, no turning your nose up, no real pressure in society, no Victorian "ickiness" that dominates Anglo Saxon attitudes on this subject, but more of "who cares up to them" attitude.

Actually the Thais will apply the same amount of peer pressure and disgust for bizarre concepts (to us) like skin colour or body shape - white and fat means you work inside and have plenty of food therefore are not a dumb poor peasant.

I taught at a prestigious Thai Catholic school, all boys (an Eton equivalent if you like) and my students were from 12-17 years, so right through puberty.
I';m going to call them ladyboys and girls because they would and over there, and to me, it carries no negative connotations.

Each class had about 10% ladyboys. I watched these kids over years go through puberty where our sexuality is hard wired.

These girls developed their preferences and behaviour in an environment where no special significance was placed on their behaviour. No teasing, no trying to change them, no bullying - nothing like the equivalent in our western schools. Other boys moved around them, played around them, were civil to them, in fact the only good natured ribbing they got was from me, their teacher! our behavioural traits are hard to change. Honestly, one straight kid, in good nature, once advised me "do you have to make lame jokes about the girls sir?" - classic!

So in a society where there is no advantage or attention seeking mechanism or other secondary motivation to be gay or transgender these kids just did it (for want of a better phrase)

typically the girls were excellent students, best in English, kind courteous, diligent, hard working and just pleasant human beings. they had all the coloured pens and stickers and flowery girly books and loved my little pony, hello kitty, pink, fashion magazines and make up and all the things you'd expect your 11 daughter to do.

The boys interacted just like they were "normal" - to them they were - they were actually really respectful in the main, well as respectful to peers as any puberty kids are at a school

The girls sexuality was never a distinction whatsoever

No signs of mental illness whatsoever

I was intrigued with all of this. Couldn't work out why you'd choose to live like this. i had difficulty reconciling years of kiwi conditioning until it dawned on me that this wasn't a choice at all.
They were just living their preferences in a society that demonstrated no ill will against them.

I spoke to fathers of the girls and asked if they minded them being girls and the men looked at me quizitively and countered with "he's" smart caring, and a lovely child. How he develops is out of my hands, I love him like all my kids"

I think the neutral unbiased setting of these transitions strengthened my belief that these are the cards they're dealt and because every other facet of their life was normal or even impressive.
The result now i couldn't give a rats arse what sexual preference people have, (it's about as relevant as the difference between a hetero bloke who doesn't like giving oral sex to a woman and one who does - i couldn't give a shit and it's not a determinant to what sort of place someone takes up in society.

Frankly I can't wait till expressing any sort of sexuality is responded to by "meh" - about as relevant as what vegetables you like to eat and what you don't . long may celebrity or attention seeking homosexuality be a thing of the past.

But I digress. Anecdote number 2 is a "woman" i met with my wife and got to know for about 4 years. She died a couple of months ago. I'll call her Nat.
Many posters on here would laugh, cringe and scoff at nat if they saw her. A normal sized tAsian fella with long hair and a pair of cracking tits. Nat definately looked strange and could be a poster boy for the people many think of when contemplating the freak nature of transgenders.

i don't say this lightly but Nat has proven to me to never judge a book by it's cover. I've never met a more caring trusting considerate person in all my nearly 50 years.
This woman would cook for everyone or anyone, would actually drop what she was doing to help (not just say it) and would stay by a bedside for 48 hours at time. She would regularly put her own life activities on hold for others and was loyal and protective to the end - nursed my wife while I was overseas and Nat was on dialysis and dying.

Truly a far better person than me or anyone I know, yet a freak to those who judge with no information and no knowledge.

So @Rembrandt, my experiences don't prove anything but to me they are experiences that validate that judging people on perceptions is folly.

As for the toilet thing, in my experience the transgenders that i knew didn't want to impose their lives on others and would make do going to the toilet and keeping a low profile, they also had/have the wherewithall to know that they were happy in their skin and would cast suspicion of those transgenders that did impose themselves- i.e. is this about us transgenders or actually about yourself as an individual seeking attention or leveraging your sexuality for more nefarious means and not the benefit of our cohort.

as for all transgenders have mental illnesses, well let me counter with an equally spurious all forum posters who name themselves after cartoon characters have mental illnesses....

no validity either way, just a perception borne from ignorance.

sorry Rembrandt, a bit long but bloody genuine

RIP "Nat" a truly great little person

The Silver Fern

Siam