Ummm well done Owen. Quite a fall from grace but by feck you were a rock for about a decade and never once showed off or sought an undue spotlight. Stoic, silent and strong is how we like our props and you were bloody good for a long time.
Well done young man, and thanks
@Jaguares4real said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Crucial said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Bones said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
No Bridge? Dry powder.
It’s only a friendly
Big picture: the game is largely meaningless in a RWC Year
I'm looking for a very good performance
Below graphic is insane
Welcome back fella, but jeez I'm getting tired of your meaningless test monologues
The absolute truth is that all games are meaningless, if one subscribes to your assessment. Sport is what you want it to be. It's a voluntary leisure pursuit. The importance of it is in the minds of every participant differently.
Calling games meaningless or friendlies is just a shit can notion for losers diminishing the achievements of winners. It's a dishonorable critique of national sport, and a deliberate insult to the winners. Let the players decide what is meaningless
You're smart enough to know that and we're smart enough to know vapid trolling.
Enough already
Hey, fuck off with your "I'm too cool to watch the All Blacks" virtue signalling shit. Fuck off to the horse thread
@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@gollum said in US Politics:
@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
Bit of a weird law in the first place, kind of a hey look I have resolved this massive non-issue!
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/05/transgender-bathrooms-suicide/483351/
Further to the "its a non-issue!"
What a load of clap trap Not using the bathroom they want is not causing suicides. These people have serious mental problems to even get to the point that they want to change sex. They need mental health care and supportive structures, not society giving in to their whims over bathrooms and pro nouns. Do people seriously think the suicide rate amongst these people will drop if they get to use the bathroom they want or be called a 'zwe'? Nope. They are unwell and need proper help to understand and cope with the way they feel.
whoa! Are you seriously saying that people with gender identity issues are mentally ill?
In my above examples I would say mail room bloke definitely mental issues. Older female to male guy definitely not and unsure on the newer female to male, only knew them for a short while pre facebook. Anyone else here know any transgender folk to give some anecdotal evidence on the mental illness angle? Being gay was classified in the DSM-IV as late as the 80's. No idea how much different this is and my sample size of 3 doesn't give a whole lot of insight.
Yeah Rembrandt, my standard kiwi assumptions got a shake up after teaching secondary school in Thailand for the first decade of this century, and also working with and interacting with many "lady-boys" (Katoey is the Thai transliteration pronounced "gah toyyy"). I believe these are transgender - men born who want to be women.
The context is vital: There is no (none) social stigma in thailand for being homosexual. No vehement vicious teasing, no turning your nose up, no real pressure in society, no Victorian "ickiness" that dominates Anglo Saxon attitudes on this subject, but more of "who cares up to them" attitude.
Actually the Thais will apply the same amount of peer pressure and disgust for bizarre concepts (to us) like skin colour or body shape - white and fat means you work inside and have plenty of food therefore are not a dumb poor peasant.
I taught at a prestigious Thai Catholic school, all boys (an Eton equivalent if you like) and my students were from 12-17 years, so right through puberty. I';m going to call them ladyboys and girls because they would and over there, and to me, it carries no negative connotations.
Each class had about 10% ladyboys. I watched these kids over years go through puberty where our sexuality is hard wired.
These girls developed their preferences and behaviour in an environment where no special significance was placed on their behaviour. No teasing, no trying to change them, no bullying - nothing like the equivalent in our western schools. Other boys moved around them, played around them, were civil to them, in fact the only good natured ribbing they got was from me, their teacher! our behavioural traits are hard to change. Honestly, one straight kid, in good nature, once advised me "do you have to make lame jokes about the girls sir?" - classic!
So in a society where there is no advantage or attention seeking mechanism or other secondary motivation to be gay or transgender these kids just did it (for want of a better phrase)
typically the girls were excellent students, best in English, kind courteous, diligent, hard working and just pleasant human beings. they had all the coloured pens and stickers and flowery girly books and loved my little pony, hello kitty, pink, fashion magazines and make up and all the things you'd expect your 11 daughter to do.
The boys interacted just like they were "normal" - to them they were - they were actually really respectful in the main, well as respectful to peers as any puberty kids are at a school
The girls sexuality was never a distinction whatsoever
No signs of mental illness whatsoever
I was intrigued with all of this. Couldn't work out why you'd choose to live like this. i had difficulty reconciling years of kiwi conditioning until it dawned on me that this wasn't a choice at all. They were just living their preferences in a society that demonstrated no ill will against them.
I spoke to fathers of the girls and asked if they minded them being girls and the men looked at me quizitively and countered with "he's" smart caring, and a lovely child. How he develops is out of my hands, I love him like all my kids"
I think the neutral unbiased setting of these transitions strengthened my belief that these are the cards they're dealt and because every other facet of their life was normal or even impressive. The result now i couldn't give a rats arse what sexual preference people have, (it's about as relevant as the difference between a hetero bloke who doesn't like giving oral sex to a woman and one who does - i couldn't give a shit and it's not a determinant to what sort of place someone takes up in society.
Frankly I can't wait till expressing any sort of sexuality is responded to by "meh" - about as relevant as what vegetables you like to eat and what you don't . long may celebrity or attention seeking homosexuality be a thing of the past.
But I digress. Anecdote number 2 is a "woman" i met with my wife and got to know for about 4 years. She died a couple of months ago. I'll call her Nat. Many posters on here would laugh, cringe and scoff at nat if they saw her. A normal sized tAsian fella with long hair and a pair of cracking tits. Nat definately looked strange and could be a poster boy for the people many think of when contemplating the freak nature of transgenders.
i don't say this lightly but Nat has proven to me to never judge a book by it's cover. I've never met a more caring trusting considerate person in all my nearly 50 years. This woman would cook for everyone or anyone, would actually drop what she was doing to help (not just say it) and would stay by a bedside for 48 hours at time. She would regularly put her own life activities on hold for others and was loyal and protective to the end - nursed my wife while I was overseas and Nat was on dialysis and dying.
Truly a far better person than me or anyone I know, yet a freak to those who judge with no information and no knowledge.
So @Rembrandt, my experiences don't prove anything but to me they are experiences that validate that judging people on perceptions is folly.
As for the toilet thing, in my experience the transgenders that i knew didn't want to impose their lives on others and would make do going to the toilet and keeping a low profile, they also had/have the wherewithall to know that they were happy in their skin and would cast suspicion of those transgenders that did impose themselves- i.e. is this about us transgenders or actually about yourself as an individual seeking attention or leveraging your sexuality for more nefarious means and not the benefit of our cohort.
as for all transgenders have mental illnesses, well let me counter with an equally spurious all forum posters who name themselves after cartoon characters have mental illnesses....
no validity either way, just a perception borne from ignorance.
sorry Rembrandt, a bit long but bloody genuine
RIP "Nat" a truly great little person
@Yeetyaah we've been calling them the clan for nigh on 20 years on here, young fella
An awful lot of arrogance and nonsense talk on this thread as far as I can see
Bored with the All Blacks winning? Fuck off
Not entertaining enough for you ? fuck off
Not feeling emotions like you want to? fuck off
You in this thing for the All Blacks and what that organisation achieves and accomplishes or how much entertainment you're entitled too?
Fuck off with your 15 second attention span.
Real rugby supporters will once again welcome the physical and tactical battle with the old foe (and friends), the ABs will be hugely psyched and me behind them supporting all their efforts and appreciating the Boks, regardless of their success.
See that's what the ABs represent - striving for excellence, winning and being humble and respectful in the process
You won't catch them bemoaning the relative ability of the opposition or counting wins before they're earned.
I can't wait for another showdown between us and the Saffas, always a great occasion
and lastly, fuck off
Can I suggest the wallabies just simply shut the fuck up?
We've played and beaten the Welsh Argues and Saffas with nary a bitter word or exchange yet all year (international and super rugby) from Australian rugby folk and coaches have been whinging about refereeing, whinging about foul play whinging about humility, whinging about the media.
Enough already. Take your thrashings (because that's what they've been) like a fair dinkum Aussie bloke and suck it up. That's what they expect of others.
Conversely win more than 3 games a fucking season and we might concede you've not had a particularly good rub of the green.
Christ on a bike it's been tiresome and repetitive all year.
Chinese might have to add a new horoscope- 2016 the year of the pissing and moaning wallaby.
Well played little nerdy looking fella who got pilloried high and low when he took over a poisoned chalice.
He stuck to his guns and contributed to us fans enjoying and being able to be proud of a decent and hard working team.
He's certainly earned some great cricketing jobs that will no doubt come his way in the future.
Well done fella
@canefan said in US Politics:
@Siam said in US Politics:
@No-Quarter I really really struggle with the notion that the lives of my grandparent's grandparents have any influence on me in the year 2020.
To subscribe to that flimsy theory is to confirm that a race of people are all born inferior to those born with no "documented" slavery.
Show me a population or society where absolutely everyone is in poverty, and I'll reconsider the idea of " ancestral oppression "
You're white aren't you mate....?
Well, since you asked, here is my Pepeha:
Ko Tiheia te maunga Ko Te Waimimi o Pekehaua te awa Ko Ngatirangiwewehi te hapuu Ko Te Arawa te waka Ko Tamatekapua te tangata Ko Whakaue raua ko Tamatera oku tupuna o mua Ko Tawakeheimoa te Tupuna Whare Ko Te Aongahoro te Wharekai Ko Tarimano te Marae Ko Haana Ngaki raua ko Te Kapaiwaho toku tupuna wahine Ko Rangimakehu Ainsley tana tamahine Ko Hineiri
My Whakapa has Tamatekapua at the top.
I'm sorry mate, I'm Maori, just like all my cousins and uncles and auntys. Can't help it, born that way.
What does that do to the words that formed my opinion? Does it change them?
What on earth has a person's skin or dna have to do with expressing an idea?
"I am sure you can look right through NZ history and find examples of the indigenous people being screwed over by those in charge."
Can I use my very own one of these examples?
Will that give me a seat at the table to express an idea?
Will that earn me enough points to expand on my parroting of Thomas Sowell, David Webb, Coleman Hughes, Ronnie Coleman, Larry Elder, and other credentialed black american scholars and journalists?
I have no ideas or claims of my own on the US racial issue - none of us can have and that's understood - so therefore our arguments will always be sourced from someone else in America.
I've found that the intellectuals version of the tribulations of black america to be a far more compelling (and equally saddening) narrative compared to the narrative from 20 years of race grifters and news anchors and teenagers screaming systemic racism, never showing where, and yet it apparently has gotten worse. The same people in charge of the money for fighting racism are the ones always screaming how worse it's getting. hmmm 
We know the miniscule value our opinions on anything we're not first hand connected to, hold - that's what the applause to photo fox was all about, and the authenticity to Crazy horse's work observations. It's a given. But the source of our info has to be open to scrutiny. scrutiny of details. I'll take Coleman Hughes over Don Lemon anyday.
My application for the brown infinity stone, (the only one I'm elligible for by birthright 
So, it turns out I'm the bastard great grandson of a late Supreme Court Judge. Apparently the highest in the land at one stage.
That's my Nana's father. She's also a bastard, obviously.
Yep, ol judgey had 2 kids to my great granny, 2 years apart. Never married and then was whistled back to Auckland to earn his way towards his knighthood. Never any contact with his kids ever again except for a parcel of books and pencils prior to them starting school in the 1930's.
As mum often remarked "I wonder how many absent fathers he prosecuted or ordered to pay child support on his way through the judicial system?"
Nana did occasionally see her father on TV during coverage of Arthur Allen Thomas trials and such and it fits now that they were the only times she stopped and sat and watched the news. We were all quiet at those times, and nothing was ever said about her father while she was alive.
The herald did a tell all expose about it after Judgey's death, so I guess it's a matter for public record now. Silly nephew of Nana tried to get some money for our family secret but only succeeded in irritating the scar tissue of a nicely healed wound. The worst part was the paper getting it drastically wrong and my Nana at age 80 facing the indignity of reading about her death 2 years ago in New Zealand's premier newspaper. Aunty told me Nana just exhaled "Huurrumph", folded the newspaper and spent the rest of the day alone in the sun porch. We got an apology from the herald after Nana died but the same mistake is still there. Strike off the herald as a trusted source of accurate news.
The article is called The Judge, The Maori Princess and the secret family. Haven't heard anything in the family about granny being a princess, so thanks Herald.
So the judge shacked up with my granny. hung around for a couple of years siring 2 kids then buggered off to fame and fortune never again acknowledging his first kids who both lived to their eightys. There's a bit of oppression there right? A shot at the victim olympics? All that white privilidge missed out on? A piece of the will? Something surely? I always wanted to be famous enough to do one of those "where did I come" from geneology tv shows...
I guess Nana could have chosen to be bitter over her paternity situation. She could have passed down her hurt and trauma from her father to us. She could have filled our heads with the "realities" of white authority. Today her story would get applause and fawning from the right audience, but still it's her choice on how she deals with that pain that a powerful white man caused, through no fault of her own.
Turns out she chose to take that hurt and injustice on her own. To shield her kids from growing up bitter and pointing at things and people that denied us a perfect upbringing and family history.
Perhaps she realised she could keep the pain away from her kids and and mokopuna because times change and she knew none of her daughters would have to go through the ingnomy of watching an absent father, adulated from afar, in the future world. Different times, then and now.
Perhaps she had a choice at her kids view of the world and their place in it.
She chose that no one would ever call us victims. She chose it was her burden to bear and it all ended there with her.
It's the same message coming from Hughes, Webb, Sowell and Elder, and a large section of the black community. It's just one way of looking at this situation, and it has some merit and some familiarity to me.
So can we explore the notion of ancestral oppression and discover strong evidence that the black situation in america is primarily due to racism or due to poverty or something else?
And can we agree that a ferners skin colour plays no importance on this site whatsover? The content of their words first??
All good canefan 
@steven-harris said in Crusaders vs. Chiefs:
The rules are there for safety purposes but I fear every game I am going to be watching this year is going to have problem in and around high tackles which is going to hugely influence results.
Except Steven that the laws aren't there for safety mate, they're primarily there to appease social and mainstream media, lest they lower rugby's appeal to corporate sponsorship.
These administrators and lawmakers have made a pigs breakfast of the game since the last WC and their sole objective has been to placate social justice fuckwits who'd never travel to a game rather than the people who actually "own" and love the game.
If you're fair dinkum about player welfare, then you start by decreasing the games played, not try to micro manage every fucking collision.
That yellow and penalty try make the game barely recognisable, and random as a legitimate contest.
A pox on them all
It's nice to have some interest and spice for a game between these two legendary pack of fluffybunnies, again.
Looking forward to it, hope there's lots of mutual hate
@Snowy said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@Siam said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Did something change in Melbourne quarantine?
Well the whole shagging thing with security guards and potential Coviders (is that a word?) probably wasn't a great way to contain it, or any other infectious diseases really, but who am I to judge?
(glances suspiciously at the missus...)
@ACT-Crusader said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@dogmeat no doubt about it. I don’t for one minute underestimate that this had to be rolled out fast but there are checks and balances that are needed. Get police in to work in conjunction with the security whilst additional training is rolled out for example. Critical corners have been cut.
Did something change in Melbourne quarantine? My experience with it in May was that it was very strict and very efficient. Support services were exemplary under the circumstances.
Didn't the whole isolation principle diminish when protesters were excused for their behaviour on 14th of June?
Surely a watershed moment in NZ's response to COVID 19
@Crucial I don't think you know very much about James Lindsay's work. There's 3 hours of it on the podcast I referenced But thanks for disseminating a tweet
@JC his rogan podcast is illuminating. He forms arguments and explanations for all the things we suspect but can't figure out. And it's too late. Lots of suffering and frustration coming up for the western world.
@ACT-Crusader said in Black Lives Matter:
I am not against action and people informing themselves about this and parents, families and communities having a discussion and debate. But this is very disappointing and does nothing to educate or even ‘help the cause’. It’s irresponsible and a classic case of over reach.
I wonder how many know this about the cause?
"Black Lives Matter has a key goal internationally of defunding the police, the movement says on its U.S. website. "
@MiketheSnow said in Jeffrey Epstein:
Not saying all are culpable, but the rumour mill is sayig some are capable
One thing's for sure about this list, none of them will get in trouble. Even if this broad sings like a canary and lays it all out with diagrams, every fluffybunny on that list is going to deny and deny ala Prince fuckface. If a trial happens it'll drag for years and what's the best she's already been given a plea deal and they all double down on what a despicable, conniving yet charming monster Jeffery was.
We won't get our pedophilia pound of flesh.
And not one of them didn't know about Little St James' reputation before or after getting on his plane. Not saying they did anything but they all knew the stories, so that'll be their first lie.
@akan004 yeah, it's like something happened which meant they couldn't play for about 3 months
It's so hard to gauge the feeling in America when we're really only subjected to the 8% noisey ones.
I suspect, like Britain, the quiet voter who never expresses an opinion online is the winning and losing of an election nowadays.
So as a party do you promote what you'll do in charge, or what they'll do in charge to the electorate?
Given the dearth of deep debate and the appetite for explaining rational policies, I think both parties will focus on the "look at them" approach for the next 4 months. That'll be depressing.
The winner won't be the best, but the least worst.
