Marginal gains



  • I think the "skinny fat" issue is easily addressed by the lack of resistance work in the current regime.

    Quite a few of the blokes I meet for beers at the moment are runners who do little to no resistance work and it does show in the bodies that are not chubby but definitely a bit soft. Don't get me wrong, they're extremely fit in terms of running massive distances but they wouldn't be the first blokes you'd call when a heavy fridge needs moving.

    Take this is a grain of salt from someone who hates long distance running ( but will still bust out a hill walk and sprint at least a couple of days a week ) resistance work is a massive part of the all round package.



  • @MN5 said in Marginal gains:

    I think the "skinny fat" issue is easily addressed by the lack of resistance work in the current regime.

    Quite a few of the blokes I meet for beers at the moment are runners who do little to no resistance work and it does show in the bodies that are not chubby but definitely a bit soft. Don't get me wrong, they're extremely fit in terms of running massive distances but they wouldn't be the first blokes you'd call when a heavy fridge needs moving.

    Take this is a grain of salt from someone who hates long distance running ( but will still bust out a hill walk and sprint at least a couple of days a week ) resistance work is a massive part of the all round package.

    I'm definitely in that camp. A decent amount of road work not enough weights. The holy trinity for keeping reasonably trim is diet first and foremost, cardio and weights in reasonably equal measure. I'm still working on that....



  • @canefan said in Marginal gains:

    @MN5 said in Marginal gains:

    I think the "skinny fat" issue is easily addressed by the lack of resistance work in the current regime.

    Quite a few of the blokes I meet for beers at the moment are runners who do little to no resistance work and it does show in the bodies that are not chubby but definitely a bit soft. Don't get me wrong, they're extremely fit in terms of running massive distances but they wouldn't be the first blokes you'd call when a heavy fridge needs moving.

    Take this is a grain of salt from someone who hates long distance running ( but will still bust out a hill walk and sprint at least a couple of days a week ) resistance work is a massive part of the all round package.

    I'm definitely in that camp. A decent amount of road work not enough weights. The holy trinity for keeping reasonably trim is diet first and foremost, cardio and weights in reasonably equal measure. I'm still working on that....

    I'm in the "love weights, hate cardio, cope with ok diet" camp.....



  • Fixed 🙂

    "love weights, hate cardio and dieting"

    But in saying that I'm working hard on portion control first and foremost.

    Depending on what sort of resistance training floats your boat you don't need a gym membership imo. Lots of stuff you can do with bands and a small selection of Kettlebells or dumbbells. But you can certainly up the ante by going to a gym - especially if you want to have a lot of options for specific areas.

    I'd strongly suggest getting a programme from a decent PT - even if you are an ex-gym junkie it's a really good way to focus your effort and know that if you do the mahi you'll get the outcome/s you are after.



  • @Paekakboyz portion control = my kryptonite



  • @canefan especially when you face up to what an actual serving is meant to look like.



  • According to Lydiard, Murray Halberg couldn’t even lift a 20 pound weight above his head.

    If you want to be good at running, go running. If you want to be strong then lift weights. Burn enough calories doing either and you won’t get fat.

    Doing weights (squats, Olympic lifts etc at the Franks gym) totally ruined my running form and speed and resulted in 4 years of back/hamstring and calf issues. In my experience weights are counter productive to long distance running.

    Now I run and swim most days to stay in shape and stay completely clear of any weight training.



  • @Paekakboyz said in Marginal gains:

    @canefan especially when you face up to what an actual serving is meant to look like.

    The main looks like my entree. I don't like feeling perpetually hungry....



  • @SammyC I think light weights can definitely help remove a bit of unwanted fat that running can't do. Having said that my GP says it's predominantly diet



  • @SammyC to be fair Olympic lifting and the like is super demanding on your body. Not surprised it caused a few issues. Especially if you were a fair amount of that sort of training plus a lot of running at the same time.

    imo it's similar to rugby/other sports where your main focus in-season is maintaining condition, you've done the hard strength and cardio work earlier. Trying to do all of that at the same time is a recipe for injury and burnout.

    Balance is key, as is having a plan about your priorities.

    One good thing (weight aside) from weights is a higher mass of muscle does help burn energy. You'll need to eat to maintain, but it can help shed weight faster if you go into a deficit diet.



  • @MN5 said in Marginal gains:

    I think the "skinny fat" issue is easily addressed by the lack of resistance work in the current regime.

    Quite a few of the blokes I meet for beers at the moment are runners who do little to no resistance work and it does show in the bodies that are not chubby but definitely a bit soft. Don't get me wrong, they're extremely fit in terms of running massive distances but they wouldn't be the first blokes you'd call when a heavy fridge needs moving.

    Take this is a grain of salt from someone who hates long distance running ( but will still bust out a hill walk and sprint at least a couple of days a week ) resistance work is a massive part of the all round package.

    I think a mixture is the best. Plenty of jacked guys who lift mega tin with guts, while there are super fit cardio freaks with no upper body or definition. A mate of mine runs every day and when he jumped in my pool the other day he had a bit of a dad bod. But then again it shouldn't just be about aesthetics, it should be about mental health and well being. Do what makes you happy and keeps you healthy. For me at the moment swimming ticks all those boxes because you get both cardio and resistance training without the heavy impact.



  • @SammyC said in Marginal gains:

    According to Lydiard, Murray Halberg couldn’t even lift a 20 pound weight above his head.

    If you want to be good at running, go running. If you want to be strong then lift weights. Burn enough calories doing either and you won’t get fat.

    Doing weights (squats, Olympic lifts etc at the Franks gym) totally ruined my running form and speed and resulted in 4 years of back/hamstring and calf issues. In my experience weights are counter productive to long distance running.

    Now I run and swim most days to stay in shape and stay completely clear of any weight training.

    Ah, I knew there was a reason I hadn't been on a run in about 6 years.



  • A lot of good advice in here!

    Firstly yes getting a PT to tailor me something will be key. If anyone can recommend someone online that would be great.The plan is to do a few bits at home to get ready and get the gym membership in the summer once I have finished with the running club. Time is in short supply at the moment. So I need to free that up first.

    The idea of doing it at home is great in theory but I live in an apartment so space is an issue.

    I am not looking for the gym work to improve my running. Its more to get a bit of balance. Try and get the body fat % down, by replacing fat with muscle, and try and get my bad arm back up to where it should be. I am not looking to flex by the pool or start throwing around atlas stones. My goals are more long term health related.

    @SammyC Any suggestions on where to start looking for swimming help? In the past I have had chats with instructors but they were not keen to try and adapt to my range of movement. To be clear its not that bad. But brushing the ear with the shoulder is not possible.

    Anyway up at 6am today for 8km in 39:58. Normally do this run after dropping the littlest at creche. But had to go before today, due to some scheduling issues.

    Will post weigh ins on Mondays but am using my normal technique of weighing every day and calculating a rolling average.

    I have found an interesting race 28km through the Pyrenees with 1100m of ascent. The distance is fine the climbing scares me as there are no hills to train on round where I live. Maybe I just need to sack up?



  • Running Club last night

    30 minute warm up 6kms

    Fartlek 1 - 2 - 6 - 4 - 2 - 1 with half the time of the work interval for rest. So 16 minutes of work with 7:30 of rest. Managed a shade under 6km

    Legs feeling it today knee really tight so lots of stretching tonight, before rugby with the old boys tomorrow. Just a training no match this week.



  • @mooshld said in Marginal gains:

    Running Club last night

    30 minute warm up 6kms

    Fartlek 1 - 2 - 6 - 4 - 2 - 1 with half the time of the work interval for rest. So 16 minutes of work with 7:30 of rest. Managed a shade under 6km

    What speeds were you running at and then resting at? I.e, were you balls out so shattered at the end, and then literally standing around? Or more fast run, slow run?

    I quite like the look of this one. Although maybe not so much after a 6km "warm up" 🙂



  • @MajorRage

    So we do a fartlek at close to balls out 100% but of course it's what you can maintain for that time amount. So the 1 minutes you are obviously faster then the 6 minute.

    At the moment for me that is somewhere in the 4 minute per km pace, Its frustrating as I would have been high 3's but I am still coming back from injury.

    Then the rest period is still running but recovery running so for me its between 5 and 6 minute km pace. Then once its all done we jog back to our cars. So another couple of km to cool down.

    At the end of the fartlek session I was shattered we had about a minute to catch our breath before we jogged back.



  • @mooshld said in Marginal gains:

    @MajorRage

    So we do a fartlek at close to balls out 100% but of course it's what you can maintain for that time amount. So the 1 minutes you are obviously faster then the 6 minute.

    At the moment for me that is somewhere in the 4 minute per km pace, Its frustrating as I would have been high 3's but I am still coming back from injury.

    Then the rest period is still running but recovery running so for me its between 5 and 6 minute km pace. Then once its all done we jog back to our cars. So another couple of km to cool down.

    At the end of the fartlek session I was shattered we had about a minute to catch our breath before we jogged back.

    Thanks ... going to give this a go for my next 30 mins. Maybe tonight, but we've just had a bonza announcement so that may end up at the pub.

    I suspect for the 1 mins I'll be able to get close to 4 mins pace, perhaps a bit slower. Definitely will be aiming sub 5 for the 6 mins. Recover periods likely to be closer to 6-6:30 likely made up of gentle jog and little bit of walking.



  • Rugby on Saturday was a good 90 minute contact session.

    Running club on Sunday 30 minutes warmup then 10 X 30s intervals 2 reps. Followed by jog back to carpark.



  • @mooshld said in Marginal gains:

    Running Club last night

    30 minute warm up 6kms

    Fartlek 1 - 2 - 6 - 4 - 2 - 1 with half the time of the work interval for rest. So 16 minutes of work with 7:30 of rest. Managed a shade under 6km

    Legs feeling it today knee really tight so lots of stretching tonight, before rugby with the old boys tomorrow. Just a training no match this week.

    such a good name.....



  • Monday Weigh in.

    Weight 81.8 (Down 0.5Kg)
    Bodyfat 23% (Down 0.2%)

    Injuires
    Knee has been good sore after training but not pain while trainings. Still doing lots of stretching on it.

    Running
    3 good sessions this week. May try and sneak in a 4th session this week if I can.

    Eating
    All went well, had a dinner at a friends on Saturday which wasn't a problem other then eating very late which caused me to weigh in heavy on Sunday. So that messed my average up a bit. But will come right this week.

    Mental
    Managed to use my time really well this week. Only bummer was that I lost my step tracker while messing around playing knee rugby with my two little ones between matches at the biggest ones tournament. Not a big deal really, as I have a routine that guarantees 10K steps a day. Just a bummer as I am pretty sure I could have gone back and found it. But the place is an hour away even when the traffic is good.



  • Early morning recovery run. Knees are cut to shit from the crappy 4G pitch we play rugby on. Why we can't have grass I will never know.

    Anyway 8.8km 45 minutes this morning forgot about day light saving so it was really dark in the forest. Will need to remember my headlamp for next week.



  • Missed last nights club session had to deal with some family stuff. So went his morning at 6 did the same loop

    8.8km 42 minutes Was a bit pissed off hence the faster time.



  • Monday Weigh in.

    Weight 81.0 (Down 0.8Kg, 2kg since start )
    Bodyfat 22.7% (Down 0.3%)

    Injuires
    No change in the knee. Massive bruise on my calf from rugby and elbows and knees torn up pretty bad. 4G pitches suck soo bad.

    Running
    3 sessions by myself this week. Had to supplement with some mountain biking in the forest as after rugby legs got a bit beat up. Fun for a change and will get back to the running this week. Looking to push those distances out a little.

    Rugby
    Match on the weekend. Played at 7 and had a decent game we lost by 7 but not really that important at this level. Still fun tackling and getting steals. The range of abilities can be quite frustrating but remind myself we are all old as shit and living vicariously though our past endeavours.

    Eating
    All back on track. Had a low point on Sunday with sugar cravings but just took myself away from any options.

    Mental
    Time management not great this week. Youngest kid causing a lot of stress terrible twos have arrived with a vengeance. So not much sleep either. Also a bit of family stuff going on that needs to be sorted to get back to my happy place.



  • Early morning run again 8.8km 44 minutes. Won't make the club sessions this week so need to go again early on Friday and Sunday.

    Really enjoying the early morning runs. Much more then when I did after work ones.



  • @mooshld said in Marginal gains:

    Early morning run again 8.8km 44 minutes. Won't make the club sessions this week so need to go again early on Friday and Sunday.

    Really enjoying the early morning runs. Much more then when I did after work ones.

    Nice one. Having just moved to summer time, I'm currently enjoying the evening runs, but I'll look to do some morning ones soon too. Really sets the day up nicely.

    Smashed out 6km in under 30 mins yesterday, which is similar pace to your 8.8 in 44. At the moment no way I could do an extra 2.8k at same pace though. Small goals!

    How flat is your loop? I think I need to bring some hills / ascents / descents but its not really motivating too as I really enjoy my loop.



  • @MajorRage said in Marginal gains:

    @mooshld said in Marginal gains:

    Early morning run again 8.8km 44 minutes. Won't make the club sessions this week so need to go again early on Friday and Sunday.

    Really enjoying the early morning runs. Much more then when I did after work ones.

    Nice one. Having just moved to summer time, I'm currently enjoying the evening runs, but I'll look to do some morning ones soon too. Really sets the day up nicely.

    Smashed out 6km in under 30 mins yesterday, which is similar pace to your 8.8 in 44. At the moment no way I could do an extra 2.8k at same pace though. Small goals!

    How flat is your loop? I think I need to bring some hills / ascents / descents but its not really motivating too as I really enjoy my loop.

    I'm in Paris so yeah summer time here as well. My loop is undulating in the forest but no real hills. I think its about 50m or something of accent. I find hill running great for the lungs but rubbish for speed. Your mileage may vary



  • Monday Weigh in.
    Weight 80.2 (Down 0.8Kg, 2.8kg since start )
    Bodyfat 22.3% (Down 0.7%)

    Injuires
    Not in great shape nursing a cold and one of those 4G pitch burns is infected. The bruise on my calf has spread and my whole shin is agony. If this keeps up I need to get it checked my the doc.

    Running
    1 session this week in agony due to my messed up calf muscle

    Eating
    Kiled it this week. Need to put in another week like this and smash through 80kg

    Mental
    Total shit, between some family stuff, the baby refusing to do anything I need and having a massive argument with my wife its been a really low week. Only high point was taking the eldest to the rugby and baking some treats for the week with the middle boy.



  • Fuckin injuries.

    So that bruise on my calf now has my whole calf blown up like a freakin hippos leg.

    Do says its healing weird but no clot. Can barely move it constantly icing it and on a diet of ibuprofen.

    So no exercise at all this week. It sucks just when you are getting back into it something like this knocks you back. Really pissed and thinking vets rugby is just not worth it.



  • @mooshld that is stink news bro. It does suck when that decision about playing on versus focusing on other training arrives. I decided I'd rather stop a year too early than late. Still didn't dodge rugby related niggles that I'll have for life. But I know some guys that played well into their 40s without any issues.

    You know your body, but it can be hard to listen to it!!
    Hope the rehab goes well.



  • Monday Weigh in.
    Weight 80.1 (Down 0.1Kg, 2.9kg since start )
    Bodyfat 21.9% (Down 0.4%)

    Injuires
    Leg is coming good still getting occasional twangs but I think its going in the right direction.

    Running
    Managed to squeeze in 4, 5km runs times were so so with the last 2 being around the 23 minute mark. Working pretty hard to get there.

    Eating
    Had a really off work after easter. But tamed it after that. Last week was good and this week has started well. So the low weight loss this week is making up for the bad week I guess so I hope to do better next week.

    Mental
    On the up the week off after easter seemed to do the trick. Looking foward to the summer now.



  • Monday Weigh in.
    Weight 79.8 (Down 0.3Kg, 3.2kg since start )
    Bodyfat 21.9% (No change, scales have been bouncing around all week on this)

    Injuires
    Nothing new or noteworthy

    Running
    Managed to squeeze in 4 runs again. Starting to get the distance up. Totalled 33.6Km this week. Kept the pace up for the longer runs. The after work runs were not so flash. 30Km needs to be my baseline now.

    Eating
    Been good again but not as strict as I should be. This week need to tighten the straps and hit it hard. Goal is for a .5Kg week.

    Mental
    Again seems all good. Probably has a lot to do with the weather and with the injuries starting to come right. Managed a bonus bike ride with my two big boys on the weekend. Great fun in the forest and while not working very hard always nice to do extra.



  • Monday Weigh in.
    Weight 79.2 (Down 0.6Kg, 3.8kg since start )
    Bodyfat 21.7% (Down 0.2%)

    Injuires
    Few aches and pains from Rugby on Friday night. But nothing to keep me from exercising this week.

    Running
    Ended up missing a run this week with kid stuff. So had to squeeze 30km into 3 runs. Managed it all right with a good fast one on Thursday. Sunday was a lot slower but was still pretty stiff after rugby. Same goal of 30 at least this week. But want to get in 4 runs this time.

    Eating
    Canned it last week 0.6Kg so beat my goal. Hoping to do that again this week. Really only eating lunch and a snack in the evenings at the moment. Feel fine though so no complaints. Good meal prep sorted and loving the zero app for fast tracking.

    Mental
    OK at the moment, not super flash. Got a few admin things that are running on and getting on my wick a bit. Trying to get them closed off. But can't do much till people decide to do their jobs.



  • Monday Weigh in.
    Weight 78.9 (Down 0.3Kg, 4.1kg since start )
    Bodyfat 21.5% (Down 0.2%)

    Injuires
    Nothing to mention knee still fucked when I bend it in odd ways so trying not to do that too much. Don't feel like its holding me back much anyway

    Running
    34.4Km this week, but again only 3 runs. Managed a 17k on the weekend so that was nice. But need to get that 4th day in somehow to keep the wheels turning. Going to be hard this week as I am off to the Cricket on the weekend so need to work hard during the week. Over all the pace is okay. Will try and do a speed work out this week. If I am going to ditch the club I need to be disciplined in these kind of workouts.

    Eating
    Was doing awesome all week then decided that we would have a family cheat day on the Saturday. Was middle ones school show then a fair at the school afterwards. Didn't go crazy. But its the first bread and sugar I have had in a while and the body rebelled badly the next two days messing up my progress. Still 0.3Kg is not to be sneezed at.

    Mental
    Weird one this week. I have felt pretty good but the misses says I have been very quiet and a bit hard on the kids. Got a boys weekend this week so can recharge a bit. Had a great time at the weekend with the kids at the school fair.


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