Should Japan join the Rugby Championship?
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Samoa and Tonga have a combined population less than that of Chch, and how many locals have TVs much less can afford pay TV subscriptions? Refer to the Blues-Reds ticket debacle for proof that the PI nations have their own unique problems that are much broader than rugby.
Japan obviously has the population base and prosperity but they need to make a statement at their own RWC in 2019 for inclusion in the RC.
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It will happen. Eventually. But that will probably be in an era when helmets are mandatory.
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@taniwharugby said in Should Japan join the Rugby Championship?:
@Stargazer problem is, the PI don't grow the game the way the IRB want....
Yep, this is sad. Given the amount of players of PI descent playing for various nations.
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Let's see if they keep consistently improving like they've done over the last 4-8 years and then they might be ready to join TRC after the 2023 RWC. I expect that 6 years playing in Super Rugby will help their rugby enormously.
Japan joining before they are ready would serve no good purpose in my opinion.
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I think there is an argument to create second tiers for the 6N or an eventually expanded TRC and move toward promotion and relegation.
This would solve a lot of things like the Georgia (and lesser extend Romania) problem in Europe.
Assuming the TRC adopted Canada and USA this creates two interesting tournaments. One up, one down and you solve the problem of the PI - how can you just admit one and not all three.
Tier 1: NZ, Aus, SA, Argentina, Fiji, Japan.
Tier 2: Samoa, Tonga, USA, Canada, Uruguay, Namibia
Tier 3 & below: Regional tournaments i.e South America, Asia, Africa.Europe would be less exciting - Georgia, Romania, Russia, Germany, Portugal, Spain.
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Europe already has all these different tiers below the 6 Nations, with promotion/relegation between the different tiers (except 6 Nations). It has just had a complete overhaul, and this is the new format from 2017:
- 6 Nations: Eng, Ire, Fra, Sco, Wal, Ita
- Rugby Europe Championship (formerly ENC 1A): Romania (2017 winner, on points differential), Georgia, Spain, Russia, Germany, Belgium (finished last, played and won the promotion/relegation play-off against Portugal so remains in this division)
- Rugby Europe Trophy (formerly ENC 1B): Portugal (finished 1st, played and lost promotion/relegation play-off against Belgium), Netherlands, Switzerland, Poland, Moldova, Ukraine (relegated)
- Rugby Europe Conference 1 (formerly ENC 2A and 2B), consisting of a North and a South sub-conference; both sub-conference winners play for one promotion spot to the Rugby Europe Trophy (2017 winner: Czech Republic), both sub-conference bottom teams are relegated to Conference 2 (2017: Luxembourg & Cyprus)
- Rugby Europe Conference 2 (formerly ENC 2C and 2D), consisting of a North and a South sub-conference; both sub-conference winners are promoted to Conference 1 (2017: Denmark & Bosnia and Herzegovina); the team with the worst record in an aggregated Conference 2 table will be relegated to the Development division for the following season (2017: Turkey, which didn't compete due to financial problems)
- Rugby Europe Development (formerly ENC 3): Slovakia, Montenegro, Bulgaria (I assume the top team will be promoted to Conference 2, but couldn't find that info)
The biggest, remaining discussion point remains promotion/relegation between the top tier 6 Nations and the Rugby Europe Championship, or expanding the 6 Nations.
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The Pacific islands do not grow the game. There simply is stuff all population there, and rugby already exists, and is followed by the population there, and their expats. There's nothing to grow. Love to see them more involved, but it's not growing anything. It would be nice to see them have more relaxed eligibility rules due to their unique circumstances.
Whereas Japan has 130 million people.
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@Stargazer said in Should Japan join the Rugby Championship?:
Europe already has all these different tiers below the 6 Nations, with promotion/relegation between the different tiers (except 6 Nations). It has just had a complete overhaul
The biggest, remaining discussion point remains promotion/relegation between the top tier 6 Nations and the Rugby Europe Championship, or expanding the 6 Nations.
That is the key element really. Unless you offer nations a path to the top tier you are dooming them to minnowship.
Great to see that the infrastructure is there already though, just need to bridge that final gap, not that the Home Nations would be willing to jeopardize themselves to "grow the game".
Outside of Europe, where there are obvious travel and timezone benefits, it's going to be much harder to stitch together a second division although there have been attempts in the past and currently - Pacific Nations Cup, World Rugby Nations Cup, American Rugby Championship, Africa Cup etc.
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Japan is going to be weakened by the change in eligibility laws for sure and they still don't have the playing stocks particularly in the 2nd row and loose forwards. I don't think it's a great idea. Georgia maybe has more of a case to have a promotion/relegation to join the 6 nations.
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@reprobate said in Should Japan join the Rugby Championship?:
Whereas Japan has 130 million people.
And the single biggest in-country tv audience for a rugby game, ever (the game AFTER the Boks game, 2015).
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I don't think so, either, yet.
But, if SA leave us, Japan is a good market to develop, despite them being pretty shit. From that point of view, I think long term they will join.
The pacific nations cup or whatever it was, is a good competition that we should go back to IMO. I'd like to see the JABs in an international completion, and I think a Pacific championship would be a great comp to put some energy back into. Over time, there could be a promotion relegation into the 4N which would keep Argentina NZ Australia on their toes
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Look, if the Sunwolves can't beat NZ Super Rugby sides, then what hope Japan in the RC?
Oh, wait...
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@nzzp said in Should Japan join the Rugby Championship?:
@reprobate said in Should Japan join the Rugby Championship?:
Whereas Japan has 130 million people.
And the single biggest in-country tv audience for a rugby game, ever (the game AFTER the Boks game, 2015).
A lot of bandwagon jumpers there I'm afraid post that win and why not. I would expect those numbers to be a one off.
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Other point I thought I'd make is that Japan's development system is horribly broken. Kids play one sport only so don't get the chance to really dabble at different sports.
The top high schools are so much better than the others, meaning there are some talented kids who rarely play hard games. Not to mention the university system where kids who could be playing pro rugby aren't.
Lastly there are prefectures where rugby is barely played.
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@Salacious-Crumb said in Should Japan join the Rugby Championship?:
It will happen. Eventually. But that will probably be in an era when helmets are mandatory.
Indeed. Willy-waving should be an essential part of the players' and fans' experience.
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Loving the call for Georgia to form a 7 Nations, but not Japan to make a 5 Nations.
Georgia are playing Wales and Japan playing Australia and France in the Autumn Internationals.
Will be interesting to see how they both fare.
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@MiketheSnow Tblisi - Dublin 3,960 kilometres Tokyo - Buenos Aires 18,358
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@dogmeat said in Should Japan join the Rugby Championship?:
@MiketheSnow Tblisi - Dublin 3,960 kilometres Tokyo - Buenos Aires 18,358
Less about geographical distance and more about ability distance.
And whilst a trip to Tblisi would be great - I've been, and Georgia is magic - does the 6N need them?
