Counties Manukau v Tasman
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@Stargazer I'm laughing at the fact you think Havili is better. I'm not talking about 2018, he was injured last year after making a blistering start to the season.
I can almost guarantee that if he wasn't injured last year and kept playing like he did, then he would be on the plane to Japan for the WC, instead it's Reece.
I clearly see him wearing 15 a few times in the below video. Maybe you need your eyes checked.
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@Canes4life said in Counties Manukau v Ta$man:
@Stargazer Jordan got injured for the Crusaders, he had that 15 spot locked down before his injury. In Ta$man's case it's probably more of a case of having all the quality players on the park at once.
I'm not saying Havili is a bad player, I just know class when I see it, and Jordan has it in spades.
He had so much going for him and now you've just uttered the death knell for his career..
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@Stargazer said in Counties Manukau v Ta$man:
@Canes4life Don't make me laugh, he had hardly played for the Crusaders before his injury, which kept him off the field in 2018. In 2019, he played mostly on the wing or came off the bench (mostly to replace a winger).
Agree with this. He was mainly on the wing this year for the Crusaders i thought.
Ennor is a bit overrated. I wouldn’t be shuffling guys like Goodhue around to fit Ennor at 13, especially because Ennor has looked better as a winger than 13.
I would bet Havili will start at either 12 or 15 with Jordan at 15 or 14. However during the season
Im sure we will see all sorts of combos given there is a bit of depth there.In terms of higher honours i would say Jordan is better off concentrating on 14 for now. Dmac, BB, Jordie and possibly Havili will be ahead of him for the AB 15 spot. 14 will be pretty wide open unless Reece cements it during the RWC.
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@pukunui the back three is interchangeable and if Jordan can cover all three then his stock rises.
I may be wrong, but purely from what I've seen from Jordan so far, I think he will have a long career in the Black jersey. Jordie will be a midfielder eventually IMO - when he shifts to the Blues.
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Baby Shark again, eh Counties? Well, what's Freddie got in his bag. I think...
Tonight, I'm gonna have myself a real good time
I feel alive...
....So don't stop me now
Don't stop me now
Cause I'm having a good time, having a good time.Thank goodness we've got that out the way.
Good effort by the Mako - pretty much just smothered Counties in the wet.
Duane Monckley medal points should be shared mainly around the forwards - Blackadder, Strange, Taufua, Havili all prominent. Lots of others good, but on short shifts.
Several worrying head knocks - we can't afford to lose Hunt, especially, but nor Makalio for any period. Do like the look of Sam Moli, though. Have the Crusaders got Funnell coming back? - If not he's worth looking hard at.
Jordan is a better runner with the ball than Havili - bigger and faster - but still makes a few more mistakes - getting isolated and turning the ball over. Improving all the time though. I'll be pretty surprised if he's not an AB by the end of next year. Mind you, Havili's got a pretty decent chance at being an AB next year as well.
The battle with Will Jordan for the No. 15 jersey and the added responsibility of captaining Ta$man seem to be getting the best out of Havili, who has continued the strong form he showed for the Crusaders during the Super Rugby season by guiding Ta$man to four victories in as many matches.
"It's great. That competition makes you better, having a competitive environment makes the team better too. You can't get comfortable in the jersey and that makes you work harder and it makes the team go better as well. Will is a classy player and he's going to go a long way in New Zealand so the more he can push me the more he is going to get out of me and the more I'm going to get out of him so it works both ways."*
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@Canes4life said in Counties Manukau v Ta$man:
@pukunui the back three is interchangeable and if Jordan can cover all three then his stock rises.
I may be wrong, but purely from what I've seen from Jordan so far, I think he will have a long career in the Black jersey. Jordie will be a midfielder eventually IMO - when he shifts to the Blues.
Yeah i agree. Im a bit gutted he isn’t going to the RWC to be honest.
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@Chris-B I'd like to see what Havili could do in a backline that is going backwards. He plays in teams that dominate upfront, so he is always going to look good, whereas I feel Jordan would still pick teams apart if he was in a worse outfit.
Like I said, Havili is a solid, skillful player that can cover many positions, but I just think Jordan offers more and I think that will show in the next WC cycle.
Let me put this to you or anyone on the Fern. If a Super Rugby draft existed and you could only pick Havili or Jordan to fill the last spot on your roster, who do you take?
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@Canes4life Jordan has more upside.
I'm hoping Havili will play quite a bit at 12 because I want to see Will play lots at 15.
I'll tell you what David is a master at, though - getting tackled, the quick release, regaining feet and ball. Buys the Crusaders a lot of time at the back with that trick. He might be the best in the world at it!
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@Canes4life said in Counties Manukau v Ta$man:
@Stargazer I'm laughing at the fact you think Havili is better. I'm not talking about 2018, he was injured last year after making a blistering start to the season.
I can almost guarantee that if he wasn't injured last year and kept playing like he did, then he would be on the plane to Japan for the WC, instead it's Reece.
I clearly see him wearing 15 a few times in the below video. Maybe you need your eyes checked.
Okay, so here are some facts.
Jordan made his debut for the Crusaders against the Blues in the 23 jersey this year! 2019! (Havili played at 15)
His next game was 2 weeks later against the Reds in the 15 jersey (Havili in the 23 jersey). That's the 2nd try in that clip.
Next game, same against the Chiefs at home (3rd and 4th try in that clip).
A week later, he got the 23 jersey (Havili at 15) against the Highlanders. (This game was cancelled.)
Same against the Waratahs a week later. 5th try of that clip
Again the same against the Hurricanes a week later. 6th try of that clip.
The next week, he started in the 14 jersey against the Brumbies (Havili at 15). 7th try in that clip.
Following week against the Highlanders, back on the bench in the 23 jersey (Havili at 15). 1st try of that clip.
Two weeks later he started at 15 against the Sharks when Havili was injured.
A week after that game, he didn't play against the Bulls due to a foot injury. (Havili at 15)
A week later, against the Stormers, he didn't play due to a foot injury. (Havili at 15)
Again a week later, against the Blues, he didn't play due to a foot injury. (Havili at 15)
Next week, against the Chiefs, he didn't play due to a foot injury. (Havili at 15)
A week later, he wasn't in the 23 for the Rebels game due to a foot injury. (Havili at 15)
In the QF against the Highlanders, he didn't play. Still injured? (Havili at 15)
In the SF against the Hurricanes, he didn't play. Still injured? (Havili at 15)
In the Final against the Jaguares, he was wearing the 23 jersey. (Havili at 15)So he has played a total of 3 games at full back for the Crusaders; five games in the 23 jersey (playing on the wing, because Havili played 80 minutes in most games; another game in which he was named at 23 was cancelled); and one in the 14 jersey.
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@Jailbreak7 said in Counties Manukau v Ta$man:
Parkinsn's going really well. If he can keep the form for next year, the 2020 ABs are going to look completely different.
Was pretty poor for the MABs wasn't he? Definitely a good prospect though.
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@Stargazer Yeah but Jordan still looks like the better player. Havili is more established yes, doesn't mean he's a better player than Jordan.
It's probably like comparing McDonald to Cullen. Havili is like McDonald, solid skill set, doesn't do alot wrong but also doesn't set the house on fire. Cullen, the best Fullback of all time who beat a person with pure pace and acceleration. I see Jordan having the same sort of impact in the All Black jersey.
I can see where you are coming from, as it would be hard for Razor to break a winning formula. I just think Jordan is one of the most exciting talents we've seen in a long time.
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@Canes4life said in Counties Manukau v Ta$man:
@Stargazer Yeah but Jordan still looks like the better player. Havili is more established yes, doesn't mean he's a better player than Jordan.
It's probably like comparing McDonald to Cullen. Havili is like McDonald, solid skill set, doesn't do alot wrong but also doesn't set the house on fire. Cullen, the best Fullback of all time who beat a person with pure pace and acceleration. I see Jordan having the same sort of impact in the All Black jersey.
I can see where you are coming from, as it would be hard for Razor to break a winning formula. I just think Jordan is one of the most exciting talents we've seen in a long time
If I had a dollar for all the times I’ve heard that said about a NZ rugby player...
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@Canes4life said in Counties Manukau v Ta$man:
@shark Surely the Crusaders backline should be: 9. Hall 10. Mo'unga 11. Bridge 12. Goodhue 13. Ennor 14. Reece 15. Jordan, with Havili that utility cover on the bench.
Harsh on Havili I know, but Jordan is just too good to leave out.
@Bones
I did not write this (maybe inspired ?). -
My post match interviews with Andrew Goodman, Tim O'Malley and Darryl Suasua
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@Canes4life said in Counties Manukau v Ta$man:
@Stargazer Jordan got injured for the Crusaders, he had that 15 spot locked down before his injury. In Ta$man's case it's probably more of a case of having all the quality players on the park at once.
I'm not saying Havili is a bad player, I just know class when I see it, and Jordan has it in spades.
Yes agree with others that this is patently, thoroughly wrong. IF Jordan had been fit in 2018 though, he may well have overtaken the 2018 Havili'i who wasn't as good as the 2017 Havili'i. But he was never, ever, in the frame ahead of Havili'i.
However, I expect Jordan to overtake Havili'i next year if Havili'i is in anything less than vintage form, or should the Crusaders require him at 12.
