@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:

@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:

@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:

I don’t know why people can’t comprehend that just picking 15 new players isn’t a good idea

Nice straw man argument. Who has suggested 15 new players?

My point more generally, is in my opinion, people are going overboard. The All Blacks issues are personnel problems, particularly in the loose forwards. We lack a big enforcer… we are crying out for a player like Harry Wilson. We lack an elite first five… McKenzie isn’t that, but he is probably the best we have - there’s no depth either.

We’re talking about fine margins here, and at the moment we don’t have the solutions… switching Ioane for Billy Proctor for example, in my opinion, wouldn’t make a difference, but if it did, it would be minimal.

Trying new players in certain positions probably makes us worse - not better.

Barring injuries, of the ABs XV who played France, is there anyone obvious who moves the needle on that team? Ruben Love is another example here. Might he be a good option if Jordan is to play on the wing? Maybe, but he hasn’t shown a level at Super Rugby to suggest he is a world-beater.

I couldn't disagree with this post more. We absolutely have the personnel, our problems are poor game plans and poor on-field decision making, which is a coaching problem. We could have beaten SA in SA, and France in France, but we threw those games away with poor tactics and decisions.

Did we? Or were we just beaten by better sides away from home? The All Blacks have come back to the pack having been clear for years, because our top-end talent is not as superior as it once was. Where 10 year ago a World XV would probably include 8 or 9 ABs, it might now includes 3 or 4, so naturally we aren't going to win every game. Poor on-field decision making (particularly discipline) is an example of these players not being quite as good.

You can rate McKenzie all you like, but he is not the standard of elite 10 that has been the hallmark of the ABs. This version of DMac doesn't even make the squad for the 2015 RWC IMO. I'm not suggesting this makes him bad, but the ABs used to win a lot of games because we had a freak at 10 who could dig us out of holes.

You can rate Akira Ioane all you like, but he is not the same level as a Jerome Kaino or even Liam Squire for those couple of seasons around the Lions Tour.

And can people make their minds up on whether they rate Rieko? He is both really good and really shit it seems, is it tactics, or is it his ability?

No chance there are 3-4 ABs in a World XV. I am not even sure there is one.

Considering Colin Slade was the 3rd 10 in that squad, i am pretty sure DMac is on the plane.

Liam Squire was just another in a long line of average blindsides who made a name for himself beating up the Aussies and the shit versions of Argentina.

But i agree with your overall point, we can't keep looking at 2015. That is arguably the single greatest national team of all time, packed with players who are not only in the conversation for a NZ all-time XV, but an anywhere all-time XV (and oh look, South Africa still took us to the brink). Other teams have better players now.

That doesn't excuse the quality of play we put on last year, or the names that are repeatedly selected despite proving themselves to be not up to standard, simply because the next cab off the rank is not a perfect player with zero flaws in their game.

Hey, remember you were telling us Jordie Barrett is an inferior midfielder to SA's ones & the top NH teams and now he's left Super Rugby and is measured up against those guys every week it's so blatantly obvious how good he is & would stroll into starting 12 of a World XV.

If anything, NZ fans are guilty of hugely underrating our talent because of the trauma stemming from the Foster era.

Keep in mind Jordie is playing in inferior competitions. SA SR sides used to get regularly bent over and now they've run away to an inferior competition (URC) they're now more successful.

They still have some handy 12s.

The Silver Fern

antipodean