Foe Cross Fit Fans
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After reading the debate between Duluth and Kirwan, I'd have to say both are correct.<br />
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In crossfit, you do push ups, but its up to you what variation you do (proper or variation, whatever you need to do to get it done)<br />
However, while writing up what exercises I did, I wouldnt say I did 50 push ups, because that would be misleading.. I would be more specific.. (which is what Duluth is getting at)<br />
30 diamond push ups + 20 push ups..<br />
Which is very different to 20 push ups + 15 snake push ups + 15 lady push ups<br />
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That would clear up the confusion.. (not from training, but from people who brag about how many push ups they did when really is was girls ones.. similar to people who say they can squat 200kgs when they don't even get to parallel)<br />
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My mate running the session said that most people do the harder exercise first and if they get tired they do the easier exercise, and so forth until they get to lady push ups..<br />
A lot of them are obsessed with how quick they do it, so form isn't really factor. -
[quote name='V-Diddy' timestamp='1359874963' post='341447']<br />
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There's no way handstand pushups are easier than press. Wait, are we talking about handstand pushups or "kipping"?<br />
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Strict <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/rugby/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> I'm just basing it on the weights I can do, and what I weigh and the reps I can do with the HSPUs. <br />
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I'm not saying they are easy, just that I can do more of them at higher weight than my press. So I find them easier. -
[quote name='mimic' timestamp='1359876974' post='341466']<br />
That would clear up the confusion.. (not from training, but from people who brag about how many push ups they did when really is was girls ones.. similar to people who say they can squat 200kgs when they don't even get to parallel)<br />
[/quote]<br />
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I guess in here is the perfect place to make shit up about what you can do in terms of weight or numbers, most will never find out.<br />
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But if I dont do an exercise that isnt what most would deem it to be, I'd not call it that (see my thread were I said I do assisted pull ups) I mean I make names up on exercises I dont know the name of <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/rugby/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /><br />
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I dont see the point of making shit up as I kinda use this as a diary of sorts so if I lie here, I am also kidding myself.<br />
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I draw little diagrams in my paper diary if I vary and need to remember exactly how I did it if I am trying different things. -
[quote name='mimic' timestamp='1359876974' post='341466']<br />
After reading the debate between Duluth and Kirwan, I'd have to say both are correct.<br />
<br />
In crossfit, you do push ups, but its up to you what variation you do (proper or variation, whatever you need to do to get it done)<br />
However, while writing up what exercises I did, I wouldnt say I did 50 push ups, because that would be misleading.. I would be more specific.. (which is what Duluth is getting at)<br />
30 diamond push ups + 20 push ups..<br />
Which is very different to 20 push ups + 15 snake push ups + 15 lady push ups<br />
<br />
That would clear up the confusion.. (not from training, but from people who brag about how many push ups they did when really is was girls ones.. similar to people who say they can squat 200kgs when they don't even get to parallel)<br />
<br />
My mate running the session said that most people do the harder exercise first and if they get tired they do the easier exercise, and so forth until they get to lady push ups..<br />
A lot of them are obsessed with how quick they do it, so form isn't really factor.<br />
[/quote]<br />
Yeah thats basically that is what I was saying about Crossfit introducing some confusion.<br />
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Put it this way. If you spoke to a non crossfitter about how many pull ups you could do, they would assume you are talking about the traditional exercise.<br />
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According to Kirwan, in crossfit its assumed you are talking about kipping unless otherwise stated. Thats arse about face. The variation from the norm should be explicitly stated (although in crossfit apparently the norm is kipping hence them creating confusion) -
fark, I've never gone bum to floor, even less keen since I had issues with my knee ligaments in 1998, always try to get angle of calf-hammies to less than 90
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[quote name='Duluth' timestamp='1359877784' post='341473']<br />
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Yeah thats basically that is what I was saying about Crossfit introducing some confusion.<br />
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Put it this way. If you spoke to a non crossfitter about how many pull ups you could do, they would assume you are talking about the traditional exercise.<br />
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According to Kirwan, in crossfit its assumed you are talking about kipping unless otherwise stated. Thats arse about face. The variation from the norm should be explicitly stated (although in crossfit apparently the norm is kipping hence them creating confusion)<br />
[/quote]<br />
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Now you are just being silly. That's not what I said at all, but you know that. <br />
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I said when they prescribe pull-ups, you can choose with technique to use. It's assumed you'll choose the most efficient method to get the work done. <br />
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The generalisation you made is wrong another way as well, xFitters make the distinction between what type of kipping they use, yet alone what type of pull-up (butterfly or regular). <br />
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In their "marketing and hype" as you call it on ESPN, they introduce the CrossFit Games with videos about what the sport is. one of these explains kipping pull-ups and why they use them, so who would be confused by that? It's very clear what pull-ups they are doing. <br /> -
[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359864823' post='341387']<br />
Context is everything, and in xFit it's assumed when there are large number of pull-ups you'll be kipping them.<br />
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Thats why I said according to Kirwan its assumed in crossfit you will be kipping -
[quote name='Duluth' timestamp='1359878829' post='341482']<br />
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Seriously, you still don't understand? Yes, as I've said it's assumed you'll do the most efficient version you are skilled enough to do. That's very different to saying the term is used loosely or it's assumed you're talking about kipping when you say pull-up. Because I've made that clear in my previous posts. <br />
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If THEY say pull-up, YOU can choose the variation. If they say dead hang pull-up, then you can't choose. When they want a specific pull-up technique, they state it. Doesn't seem loose, or confusing to me. <br />
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I can't make it any clearer , but I suspect you are just playing "have the last word". Yawn. -
[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359879620' post='341485']<br />
Seriously, you still don't understand? Yes, as I've said it's assumed you'll do the most efficient version you are skilled enough to do. That's very different to saying the term is used loosely or it's assumed you're talking about kipping when you say pull-up. Because I've made that clear in my previous posts.<br />
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If THEY say pull-up, YOU can choose the variation. If they say dead hang pull-up, then you can't choose. When they want a specific pull-up technique, they state it. Doesn't seem loose, or confusing to me.[/quote]<br />
I understand all of that. That is the way crossfit does things.<br />
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However I simply pointed out that crossfitters use the generic term even when referring to a cheat variation. The response was this:<br />
[quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Context is everything, and in xFit it's assumed when there are large number of pull-ups you'll be kipping them. Same with muscle ups, handstand push-ups, large numbers of ring dips, bar muscle ups, the list goes on. [/font][/color]<br />
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[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]When I'm posting workouts i'll not be posting "kipping", same as I don't post squat snatch, or hand release push ups, or how I'm cycling my box jumps (although I record that info in my personal log). [/font][/color]<br />
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[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Basically, I figure most people am aware I'm doing xFit workouts.[/font][/color][/quote]<br />
Which is fine. Thats the way crossfit does things. However if you use the generic term pull up to a normal person they assume you are talking about the traditional version of the exercise not a cheat variation. Thats where the confusion comes from. -
Yeah the crossfitters I know are happy to shorten 'kipping pull up' to 'pull up' when talking about what they do. A crossfitter I was talking to a few weeks back was happy to boast about the number of pull ups he did and it turned out he was inaccurate by a factor of four. <br />
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Personally I think mimic has it right<br />
[quote name='mimic' timestamp='1359876974' post='341466']In crossfit, you do push ups, but its up to you what variation you do (proper or variation, whatever you need to do to get it done)<br />
However, while writing up what exercises I did, I wouldnt say I did 50 push ups, because that would be misleading.. I would be more specific.. (which is what Duluth is getting at)<br />
30 diamond push ups + 20 push ups..<br />
Which is very different to 20 push ups + 15 snake push ups + 15 lady push ups[/quote] -
Someone who does Crossfit is not Crossfit as a whole. So your generalisation has a sample of two so far. <br />
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My workout logs are accurate, what I write on here is just a summary. <br />
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But you know, while someone is complaining about how I'm talking about the exercise I'm doing, at least I'm actually doing the exercises. FYI, I do dead hangs as part of my warmup, every session. -
Thats super. I do real pull ups too. <br />
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Also, my sample size is 5 people. True, it's still not a big enough sample. However the point still stands if you are doing a cheat variation you should be clear about it. My anecdotal experience is that the crossfitters think it's fine to leave off kipping when describing the movement. That's quite confusing. It's a different exercise. -
[quote name='Duluth' timestamp='1359883188' post='341497']<br />
Thats super. I do real pull ups too. <br />
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Also, my sample size is 5 people. True, it's still not a big enough sample. However the point still stands if you are doing a cheat variation you should be clear about it. My anecdotal experience is that the crossfitters think it's fine to leave off kipping when describing the movement. That's quite confusing. It's a different exercise.<br />
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Well it's clear you are easily confused, you have demonstrated that much. It must be very annoying when people don't specify if its a ring or bar muscle up huh. <br />
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Enough of your condescending posts, you are getting close to the line. <br />
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[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359883860' post='341499']<br />
Well it's clear you are easily confused, you have demonstrated that much. It must be very annoying when people don't specify if its a ring or bar muscle up huh.<br />
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Enough of your condescending posts, you are getting close to the line.<br />
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Oh calm down. You are the one getting into name calling<br />
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What I'm saying is hardly controversial. When you do a cheat variation of an exercise you should be clear about that. My experience with crossfitters is that they are happy to omit the 'kipping' word. Hardly a major crime but at the same time it is very inaccurate<br />
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I think maybe you are taking the 'cheating' word personally. It is the correct term for movements like this. My favourite cheat to extend pull up sets is the negative which is an even bigger cheat (you jump to the bar and lower yourself slowly) -
[quote name='Duluth' timestamp='1359884481' post='341500']<br />
Oh calm down. You are the one getting into name calling<br />
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What I'm saying is hardly controversial. When you do a cheat variation of an exercise you should be clear about that. My experience with crossfitters is that they are happy to omit the 'kipping' word. Hardly a major crime but at the same time it is very inaccurate<br />
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I think maybe you are taking the 'cheating' word personally. It is the correct term for movements like this. My favourite cheat to extend pull up sets is the negative which is an even bigger cheat[b] (you jump to the bar and lower yourself slowly)[/b]<br />
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THat's not cheating that's just what pussies who can't do them do <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/rugby/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eusa_whistle.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistle:' /> -
[quote name='MN5' timestamp='1359920999' post='341555']<br />
THat's not cheating that's just what pussies who can't do them do <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/rugby/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eusa_whistle.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistle:' /><br />
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Haha.. as a set extender so you've already done as many real reps as you can do. A few 8 sec negatives at the end tears your lats up -
[quote name='Duluth' timestamp='1359925586' post='341570']<br />
Haha.. as a set extender so you've already done as many real reps as you can do. A few 8 sec negatives at the end tears your lats up<br />
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Yeah true, after chins sometimes I do a few flexed arm hangs, a mere 10-15 seconds of those fuck your guns up good and proper.