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@rotated said in The Folau Factor:
Given we don't have all the facts in the case I would prefer to see this go to the courts. If Folau were to win he would not be asking people to "pay for the consequences of his mistakes" he would be asking people to help him defend his (and in turn others) human rights.
Fallau's not the poster child for freedom of speech, but there are important principles at stake. He's a muppet that seems to be doubling down on his opinion, but it doesn't take away from the fact that there is competition between the right of an employer to control an employee to protect their brand, and the right of an employee to publicly express their religion.
It's a crappy case, and no one will come out of it well. No matter what Fellow's done in rugby. The issue with deplatforming and controlling the speech of others, is yuo wind up like Samoa banning Rocketman. If you give people tools to suppress speech, sometimes (often?) they will be used against speech that you want free.
Whether he's got money or not has frankly nothing to do with the principles, and the givealittle page is a sideshow. Would make a lot of heads spin if Folau actually won... will be an interesting case
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@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
Mitchell’s point is that Folau is asking people to pay for the consequences of his own decisions.
Same logic the Saudis use when they execute gays. “They’re paying for the consequences of their decisions. Save your tears for children in wheelchairs.”
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Put my money where my mouth is and donated a days’ wage. Probably a waste of my money, but I’ll take it out of my entertainment budget (not going to take it out of my wine ‘n weed budget!), and besides, this is is already entertaining as Hell, where I’ll no doubt be burning for my wayward secular beliefs.
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Seemed to be accruing at about a thousand dollars per minute for the half-hour I was reading..
I’m curious if Christians in the American bible belt have been contributing, and/or whether they even know the story. I suspect when they start learning about it on Sundays, should it get any promotion, his war chest is going to be sizeable.
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@Salacious-Crumb you've got skin in the game mate! Good on ya
I wish ARU would put up a go fund me page.
We would have a measurable battle of ideologies occurring in the public marketplace.Which group actually tangibly makes a sacrifice for their cause and which is all talk of offending, victimhood and bad words for theirs.
Good barometer of society priorities
Extra money for the ARU too 👍
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@Siam said in The Folau Factor:
I wish ARU would put up a go fund me page.
I’m only shocked Pete Fitzsimmons didn’t start one first.
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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@Siam said in The Folau Factor:
measurable battle of ideologies
Except there is only one ideology, and it lost the battle. Now it's just setting fire to the other side's crops, while seeking to start a war
Jesus Christ, everybody thinks they’re crucified.
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@Salacious-Crumb well, if Folau took it to court and won his $10M, RA is effectively bankrupted. Basically crucifixion.
All because he's a fucking idiot. A rich fucking idiot.
The good news: his court activities should cost somewhere between $150k and $300k, so at least all the little snowflakes who donated to his cause have helped him buy yet another investment property. Well done.
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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@Salacious-Crumb well, if Folau took it to court and won his $10M, RA is effectively bankrupted. Basically crucifixion.
All because he's a fucking idiot. A rich fucking idiot.
The good news: his court activities should cost somewhere between $150k and $300k, so at least all the little snowflakes who donated to his cause have helped him buy yet another investment property. Well done.
He's not going to get $10M.
However, it's a bit rough to label people who choose to support his action snowflakes. If I lived in Aus, I'd want to know what my employer could realistically do to curb my speech. Can I wear a Hijab at work? Can I refer to teh bible when I help people? Can I tell people I disapprove of their promiscuous lifestyle?
Folau's appears to be a bit of a zealot, but religious freedom was hard won and should only be curtailed with careful consideration. The courts should do that.
Bright point: we're not in Samoa, Qatar or Yemen. You're free to express yourself, I'm free to disagree with you, and we'll all go for a virtual beer at the end of the day, and no-one gets thrown in jail
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@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
. If I lived in Aus, I'd want to know what my employer could realistically do to curb my speech. Can I wear a Hijab at work? Can I refer to teh bible when I help people? Can I tell people I disapprove of their promiscuous lifestyle?
You're acting like it's a police state. Don't buy all the bullshit that the Free Speech Warriors are selling on TSF, or elsewhere.
Let me assure you: I've lived in Australia for 43 years, working in multiple organisations for half that, and everything was pretty well laid out at all my places of work.
Particularly, as has happened, when you get warned about behaviour or action that is inappropriate. You tend to avoid doing it again if you like being employed.
You certainly don't go incommunicado for 48 hours and then front up, unrepentant, knowing what you did breaches the conditions.
It's called "open dialogue" and helps keep both employers and employees getting on well.
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@nzzp I would also add: it is wildly optimistic to think that this case will set any kind of precedent for employment law, and nor should it.
The nuances of this case are going to be different from just about anything else.
As it is, Folau now had enough money in his GoFundMe for the costs of his initial court action, probably an appeal, and maybe another nice car.
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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@nzzp I would also add: it is wildly optimistic to think that this case will set any kind of precedent for employment law, and nor should it.
The nuances of this case are going to be different from just about anything else.
As it is, Folau now had enough money in his GoFundMe for the costs of his initial court action, probably an appeal, and maybe another nice car.
This whole clash, though is about what is and isn't inappropriate. I think you're right that it won't set a massive precedent.
On another note, if this could bankrupt the ARU, they should have done more to follow process. I suspect that coming out with 'we want to terminate his contract' won't play well in a courtroom. Neither will the comments by Qantas' boss.
His subsequent actions make him look even more separated from reality. Media don't help by breathlessly reporting everything, going over his religous activities in detail, etc.
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Question: If a player tweeted "Religion is bullshit and God doesn't exist" should they be fired?
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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
You're acting like it's a police state. Don't buy all the bullshit that the Free Speech Warriors are selling on TSF, or elsewhere.
What’s the bullshit we’re allegedly selling?
See, that’s part of being a Free Speech Warrior. I want to hear your argument. You haven’t convinced me yet. Find a better argument. Maybe you’ll convince me. And whether you can-or-can’t, nobody should lose their livelihood arguing the point.
And in fairness, and more importantly The Law, if a court finds Folau’s lawsuit has merit and he wins and RA is bankrupted, by your logic it surely falls on RA to pay the piper for their choices and convictions, correct?
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@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
Media don't help by breathlessly reporting everything, going over his religous activities in detail, etc.
On Fox Sports last night in the pregame show one of the panel (Justin Harrison?) was saying "I don't want to hear or speak any more about it". The host (Nick McArdle) saying "but here we are, talking about it, and we're probably going to keep talking about it" referring to the news cycle.
The fucked irony is: this is the only newsworthy thing resulting to rugby that will get a run on Free To Air. Brumbies in the finals? Who cares?! Izyy wants a court case.
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@Salacious-Crumb said in The Folau Factor:
What’s the bullshit we’re allegedly selling?
I'm not actually sure, because it relates to some mythical "freedom of speech" or "freedom of religion" best, that has nothing to do with Folau's lack of employment to this point.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
Question: If a player tweeted "Religion is bullshit and God doesn't exist" should they be fired?
That is unknown to this point, because as far as I'm aware, nobody has been stupid enough to do so.
They'd probably get the same treatment Folau got, with conditions such as prior warning, contrition, etc taken into account.
It's a great question tho - doubt whether anyone wants to test it.
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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@Salacious-Crumb said in The Folau Factor:
What’s the bullshit we’re allegedly selling?
I'm not actually sure, because it relates to some mythical "freedom of speech" or "freedom of religion" beat that has nothing to do with Folau's lack of employment to this point.
Well, that’s one perspective. Completely unconvincing. But it’s a perspective, and again, not worth losing a job over.
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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@Kirwan seriously tho a lot of the hardcore Bible bashers here are throwing cash into it, like this is the pinnacle of free speech/religion judgements; an existential threat or something
He's probably not the hero people want but I think many will be looking to this as someone making a stand. There is definitely a lot of pent up angst in Australia at the excesses of the progressive movement especially over the events of the last 2-3 years and the refusal of many to call it out, Folau might just be the symbol of a resistance even if it might look like he is money grubbing to many.
I have read that three times now, and really have no idea what you're talking about.
Are you saying that the conservative government with a conservative prime Minister (an evangelical Christian no less), who have had run of the country for 6 years, are - along with the wider society - somehow being hounded to the point where they need some greedy fucking idiot who pissed away his professional sporting contract, in order to somehow re-establish an imaginary balance that conservatives have somehow been denied?
Or is it just coincidence that Folau's actions have arisen in conservative Australia's hour of need?
Nope.
Events such as modern day abortion glamorisation, Victoria's 'safe schools' program that sexualises children put together by an open communist who hates Australia and overseen by an open paedophile advocate. The violence and intimidation brought on by the 'Yes' campaign during the marriage postal survey. World wide persecution of christians in some areas at almost genocidal levels but rarely covered by mainstream media. Social media platforms bias against christians. The glamorisation of transgender children resulting in huge increases of even primary school children now undergoing gender transition in Australia. The progressive removal of gender from Australian law.
These could of course all be isolated incidences but Christians are on social media too and this sort of stuff is highlighted regularly so they naturally feel very much under attack. This support of Folau could very well be an extension of that. A christian standing up for his beliefs and people want to be a part of that especially if they are unable in their own lives for fear of violence or ostracisation.
Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions