All Black backs' passing



  • Once again a disappointing effort on Saturday. Nugget possesses the best 9 pass in rugby, but from there it goes pear shaped. BB just doesn't seem to have the tempo and weight on his pass to enable his outsides naturally to build momentum. in contrast, Sopoaga seems to get AB backs humming.
    Best pass I recall against Pumas was a beautifully weighted cutout pass, I think from Ofa T of all people!
    Contrast with Wobblies, where Foley is generally good and Beale often sublime. One wide pass against Boks was so good it created an easy try for the winger, when none looked to be on.



  • @pakman absolutely agree. aaron smith's passing gives us a hug advantage. beauden isn't bad, and he does some amazing other things - but sopoaga is better on that count. sbw played pretty well this week - and i know we've been spoilt by nonu - but this remains a weakness in his game. it has improved a fair bit, but still a way to go. get them watching videos of mehrtens, carter, nonu, larkham, horan etc.
    there are also far too many times when we see the inside man deliver a perfect pass for the outside man to hit at pace without losing momentum... only to be called (or not called) forward, because the supporting player is too flat. perenara is a serial offender, but he is far from alone. obviously the flatter the better up to a point, but i think we're going to get burnt by this eventually, and it could definitely be improved.



  • DMac has a pretty laboured pass as well, which would be more noticeable if he were playing 1st 5.

    Aaron Smithโ€™s passing has been a bit scratchy this season IMO.


  • Banned

    It was a piss poor display against Argentina, but a bit hysterical to claim Beale (and Foley of all people) are better. They've had their share of shockers as well. The ABs stand very flat on attack, and while there are advantages from doing that, there are also restrictions. Just look at DMacs pass to Folau.

    As mentioned further above, the big difference is the midfield. Nonu had a brilliant pass, while being a beast with ball in hand and nobody was better than Conrad at straightening the line. The midfielders on Saturday have some very positive qualities but they aren't in the same league as those two. It places extra pressure on BB having to create magic all the time.



  • @rancid-schnitzel said in All Black backs' passing:

    As mentioned further above, the big difference is the midfield. Nonu had a brilliant pass, while being a beast with ball in hand and nobody was better than Conrad at straightening the line. The midfielders on Saturday have some very positive qualities but they aren't in the same league as those two. It places extra pressure on BB having to create magic all the time.

    Nonu developed his passing game, and it became excellent.

    Also very few midfields breath the rarified air of Ma'a and Conrad. They were in the conversation for our best ever from probably 2010-2015



  • I blame Foster



  • Mick Byrne is with Australia now - perhaps a factor.



  • @kiwimurph said in All Black backs' passing:

    Mick Byrne is with Australia now - perhaps a factor.

    If New Zealanders need to learn how to pass a rugby ball from an ex-AFL player, things are dreadfully bad.



  • I'd like to see a Crotty - Goodhue midfield combo at the EOYT or against the Wallabies in Brisbane. Goodhue is the most Conradsmithuesque centre in NZ IMO.



  • @cgrant said in All Black backs' passing:

    I'd like to see a Crotty - Goodhue midfield combo at the EOYT or against the Wallabies in Brisbane. Goodhue is the most Conradsmithuesque centre in NZ IMO.

    Like your thinking ๐Ÿ™‚

    1. Crockett
    2. Taylor
    3. Laulala
    4. Romano
    5. Whitelock
    6. Barrett
    7. Todd
    8. Read
    9. T. Lander
    10. T. Cane
    11. T. Blue
    12. Crotty
    13. Goodhue
    14. Dagg
    15. Havili


  • Keep up @ACT-Crusader your 3 is a Chief



  • @pakman said in All Black backs' passing:

    Once again a disappointing effort on Saturday. Nugget possesses the best 9 pass in rugby, but from there it goes pear shaped. BB just doesn't seem to have the tempo and weight on his pass to enable his outsides naturally to build momentum. in contrast, Sopoaga seems to get AB backs humming.
    Best pass I recall against Pumas was a beautifully weighted cutout pass, I think from Ofa T of all people!
    Contrast with Wobblies, where Foley is generally good and Beale often sublime. One wide pass against Boks was so good it created an easy try for the winger, when none looked to be on.

    I seem to recall quite a few very good passes. It was the catching and decisions that were more shocking.
    I am thinking that this current hot and cold spell we are seeing is down to a new approach settling in. Remember how awful things looked back when implementing the flat backline years ago?
    This current system seems to me to be a relentless press. No pausing once moving forward but trying to find the next player that can keep going. That and some sevens like stuff flinging the ball around back and forth looking for a half gap to get the forward press started.
    I know teams always look to go forward but the difference here is the mindset of not resetting unless absolutely necessary.
    I think it was in Reads try on the wing where you could see a 15 man wave up field eating up ground and keeping the ball alive constantly moving forward.
    When it clicks it is awesome. Takes some skill though.



  • Standing flat is OK when you have Brodie R in midfield as first receiver. He's asking questions to the opposition's defence. Ioane was never used near Barrett, not even as a decoy runner.



  • @cgrant said in All Black backs' passing:

    Standing flat is OK when you have Brodie R in midfield as first receiver. He's asking questions to the opposition's defence. Ioane was never used near Barrett, not even as a decoy runner.

    Brodie's decision-making and execution in that regard are excellent. Most locks I play/ed against would give up an intercept most of the time.



  • No doubt the flat backline does cause some of the problems. It seems to require very good timing to build momentum. SBW outside Crudes worked exceptionally because they had timing nailed (amongst other things). But when opposition has an organised rush, the flat line can become a case of shovelling on.
    Need some big units straightening the line, or running decoy, to keep rush guessing. Savea used to be very effective at that, and expect Ioane will become so. Was hoping for it when Laumape came on, but didn't seem to gel.
    Crucial is spot on that from broken play the sevens style approach, but with a fifteen man wave is awesome, and almost unstoppable when clicking.
    But nonetheless, I do think that from set piece wide passing needs improvement. Perhaps it was more noticeable to me having watched the Boks/Wobblies sister kissing fest. No need to watch preamble, but Foley pass at 4.05 in link is a peach:



  • @rancid-schnitzel said in All Black backs' passing:

    It was a piss poor display against Argentina, but a bit hysterical to claim Beale (and Foley of all people) are better.

    I'm thinking short memories? Fucking easy to pick out examples of Barrett being as good or better - NMS' try Vs the Springboks being a perfect example.



  • @bones I'd take BB over Foley every day of the year. The key point is that IMHO Foley has a better cut out pass. I think BB has gotten a little carried away with the kick pass. Just a work on.



  • @pakman Again, plenty of examples prove otherwise - as I said, do you not remember NMS's try against the Springboks?



  • @pakman That first try is a forward pass. How do refs not see that?



  • @crucial said in All Black backs' passing:

    Keep up @ACT-Crusader your 3 is a Chief

    Heโ€™s a Cantab through and through. Heโ€™s just had a crisis of faith....



  • @antipodean Couldn't agree more. Even Michael Lynagh said the same at half time (mind you he's always struck me as straight shooter).



  • @act-crusader said in All Black backs' passing:

    @crucial said in All Black backs' passing:

    Keep up @ACT-Crusader your 3 is a Chief

    Heโ€™s a Cantab through and through. Heโ€™s just had a crisis of faith....

    His crisis of faith was when he forgot about the white stripe on his jersey of choice. The Laulalas are all Wesley boys from Pukekohe despite the best efforts of the inbreds from the southern plains to claim them.



  • @bones Do you mean the recent one with the magician sleight of hand?


  • Banned

    @pakman said in All Black backs' passing:

    @bones I'd take BB over Foley every day of the year. The key point is that IMHO Foley has a better cut out pass. I think BB has gotten a little carried away with the kick pass. Just a work on.

    Disagree with the better cut out pass. Remember that one Barnes didn't call forward? That was a shocker. Although ironically it led to a try....

    Regardless, I totally agree that BB needs to improve big time on his place kicking and also needs work on his option-taking. But his pass isn't a problem. In fact out of all the starting 10s in test rugby, I'd say he has the best pass of the lot.


  • Banned

    @pakman said in All Black backs' passing:

    @bones Do you mean the recent one with the magician sleight of hand?

    He meant the cut out pass from left to right that put NMS into the corner.



  • @rancid-schnitzel said in All Black backs' passing:

    @pakman said in All Black backs' passing:

    @bones I'd take BB over Foley every day of the year. The key point is that IMHO Foley has a better cut out pass. I think BB has gotten a little carried away with the kick pass. Just a work on.

    Disagree with the better cut out pass. Remember that one Barnes didn't call forward? That was a shocker. Although ironically it led to a try....

    Regardless, I totally agree that BB needs to improve big time on his place kicking and also needs work on his option-taking. But his pass isn't a problem. In fact out of all the starting 10s in test rugby, I'd say he has the best pass of the lot.

    That Foley pass was a shocker: but as the old joke goes, one swallow doesn't make a summer! BB has a lot of clever passes, but we may have to agree to disagree about his long balls.
    Goal kicking is a worry, and option taking not great when he doesn't have a pair of savvy eyes, such as Crotty's outside him.



  • @rancid-schnitzel That was an excellent pass, but it has to be said that NMS had acres of space so accuracy wasn't as crucial.



  • Long flat passing has been a bit of an Oz trend in the last decade. Both Cooper and Beale stood out when young for passing like this and it was seen as an extension of the Larkham/Giteau late skips.
    Many of the current crop have grown up watching that style lose up in training or emulating it.



  • @act-crusader said in All Black backs' passing:

    @cgrant said in All Black backs' passing:

    I'd like to see a Crotty - Goodhue midfield combo at the EOYT or against the Wallabies in Brisbane. Goodhue is the most Conradsmithuesque centre in NZ IMO.

    Like your thinking ๐Ÿ™‚

    1. Crockett
    2. Taylor
    3. Laulala
    4. Romano
    5. Whitelock
    6. Barrett
    7. Todd
    8. Read
    9. T. Lander
    10. T. Cane
    11. T. Blue
    12. Crotty
    13. Goodhue
    14. Dagg
    15. Havili

    Bullshit ACTC ... surely Drummond makes the eoyt...



  • @booboo Bryn Hall, you nimrod.



  • @tim said in All Black backs' passing:

    @booboo Bryn Hall, you nimrod.

    Of course. Born and bred, bleeds red and black, Learned everything about the game the moment he crossed Cook Strait etc etc


  • Banned

    @pakman said in All Black backs' passing:

    @rancid-schnitzel said in All Black backs' passing:

    @pakman said in All Black backs' passing:

    @bones I'd take BB over Foley every day of the year. The key point is that IMHO Foley has a better cut out pass. I think BB has gotten a little carried away with the kick pass. Just a work on.

    Disagree with the better cut out pass. Remember that one Barnes didn't call forward? That was a shocker. Although ironically it led to a try....

    Regardless, I totally agree that BB needs to improve big time on his place kicking and also needs work on his option-taking. But his pass isn't a problem. In fact out of all the starting 10s in test rugby, I'd say he has the best pass of the lot.

    That Foley pass was a shocker: but as the old joke goes, one swallow doesn't make a summer! BB has a lot of clever passes, but we may have to agree to disagree about his long balls.
    Goal kicking is a worry, and option taking not great when he doesn't have a pair of savvy eyes, such as Crotty's outside him.

    Do you watch the Canes much? Plenty of delicious long balls on display there.

    Fark that looks dodgy if taken out of context.



  • @rancid-schnitzel You ain't wrong! Not really, for my sins I am a long suffering Blues fan living in Wimbledon. Long time between drinks!!



  • @act-crusader said in All Black backs' passing:

    @cgrant said in All Black backs' passing:

    I'd like to see a Crotty - Goodhue midfield combo at the EOYT or against the Wallabies in Brisbane. Goodhue is the most Conradsmithuesque centre in NZ IMO.

    Like your thinking ๐Ÿ™‚

    1. Crockett
    2. Taylor
    3. Laulala
    4. Romano
    5. Whitelock
    6. Barrett
    7. Todd
    8. Read
    9. T. Lander
    10. T. Cane
    11. T. Blue
    12. Crotty
    13. Goodhue
    14. Dagg
    15. Havili

    Don't you need to hand in your Cantab man card for that selection ACT? There's not 15 Crusaders. Hell, even the non Cantab Mitchell the Journey managed to get 14 Crusaders into an AB team.

    Edit: Guess I should have checked the first page before posting my reply, seems everyone's rallied around to help you pick 15.



  • This post is deleted!

  • Banned

    @pakman said in All Black backs' passing:

    @rancid-schnitzel You ain't wrong! Not really, for my sins I am a long suffering Blues fan living in Wimbledon. Long time between drinks!!

    Could be worse. I was once a Canes fans living in Oslo! "Rugby, is that like American football."

    "No, nothing like it you stupid Noggie."

    Those were the days..



  • @pakman said in All Black backs' passing:

    @bones I'd take BB over Foley every day of the year. The key point is that IMHO Foley has a better cut out pass. I think BB has gotten a little carried away with the kick pass. Just a work on.

    Isn't the cut out pass an overlap killer anyway? Of all the skills not up to scratch, I'd prefer it be the cut out passes.

    But I agree the passing on the weekend was beyond shoddy.



  • @act-crusader said in All Black backs' passing:

    @cgrant said in All Black backs' passing:

    I'd like to see a Crotty - Goodhue midfield combo at the EOYT or against the Wallabies in Brisbane. Goodhue is the most Conradsmithuesque centre in NZ IMO.

    Like your thinking ๐Ÿ™‚

    1. Crockett
    2. Taylor
    3. Laulala
    4. Romano
    5. Whitelock
    6. Barrett
    7. Todd
    8. Read
    9. T. Lander
    10. T. Cane
    11. T. Blue
    12. Crotty
    13. Goodhue
    14. Dagg
    15. Havili

    I'd put Oli Jager in at tighthead ๐Ÿ˜‰



  • @rapido said in All Black backs' passing:

    @pakman said in All Black backs' passing:

    @bones I'd take BB over Foley every day of the year. The key point is that IMHO Foley has a better cut out pass. I think BB has gotten a little carried away with the kick pass. Just a work on.

    Isn't the cut out pass an overlap killer anyway? Of all the skills not up to scratch, I'd prefer it be the cut out passes.

    But I agree the passing on the weekend was beyond shoddy.

    absolutely not. it allows you to choose the point of attack. to get the ball to the mismatch. to clear traffic quickly and get the ball to your overlap. to get around a rush defence. it is a key skill to anyone looking to control the attack in a game of footy.



  • The perfectly timed cut out pass to a team mate running on to the ball from depth is still a key weapon in breaking down a defence. Plus when executed well itโ€™s still a thing of beauty


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