US Politics



  • @antipodean said in US Politics:

    Excited delirium is a thing. As is the observation that consultants tend to provide the outcomes you hired them for...

    The broader problem is competing autopsies make the prosecutor's job much harder.

    One thing that complicates these autopsies is the Dr that is usually involved

    There's a massive amount of money in cases like this so they get the best doctor they can. One doctor has gotten so much experience he's become the default choice - Dr Micheal Baden

    There's nothing wrong with paying for the best but it does make conspiracy theorists get over excited when they see the cases he's been involved in: JFK, OJ, Phil Spector, Aaron Hernandez, Michael Brown, Jeffrey Epstein and now this case.

    He used to tell some funny stories about autopsies on 'Red Eye' years ago.. he's seen a lot of weird shit



  • @barbarian as a not so long departed poster used to say, don't trust the polls. Anything can happen. Trump will keep his base, it remains to be seen if the Dems voters can get suitably motivated to vote him out.



  • @canefan said in US Politics:

    @barbarian as a not so long departed poster used to say, don't trust the polls. Anything can happen. Trump will keep his base, it remains to be seen if the Dems voters can get suitably motivated to vote him out.

    Maybe the Dems might actually try and campaign in Michigan this time. Who knows...



  • @canefan said in US Politics:

    @barbarian as a not so long departed poster used to say, don't trust the polls. Anything can happen. Trump will keep his base, it remains to be seen if the Dems voters can get suitably motivated to vote him out.

    Swing States aren't looking that flash for Trump at the moment and who knows what will happen to the black vote, or if Biden can provide sufficient assurances that will actually get the numbers even voting.

    As we learned last time, the electoral college system can be the deciding factor if you let things be close enough.

    A bit like giving the ref an opportunity to influence the result in a rugby game.



  • @Crucial said in US Politics:

    @canefan said in US Politics:

    @barbarian as a not so long departed poster used to say, don't trust the polls. Anything can happen. Trump will keep his base, it remains to be seen if the Dems voters can get suitably motivated to vote him out.

    Swing States aren't looking that flash for Trump at the moment and who knows what will happen to the black vote, or if Biden can provide sufficient assurances that will actually get the numbers even voting.

    As we learned last time, the electoral college system can be the deciding factor if you let things be close enough.

    A bit like giving the ref an opportunity to influence the result in a rugby game.

    I'm not sure Biden captures the imagination. He just has to play it straight and hope that Trump motivates enough people to come out and vote against him. If they get too petty it will devolve into a slanging match and Trump is quite adept at those



  • I think the bigger problem than trump or Biden is that the losing side will not accept the result and the whole thing will fester.

    We really need an alien attack very soon 😉



  • @canefan said in US Politics:

    @Crucial said in US Politics:

    @canefan said in US Politics:

    @barbarian as a not so long departed poster used to say, don't trust the polls. Anything can happen. Trump will keep his base, it remains to be seen if the Dems voters can get suitably motivated to vote him out.

    Swing States aren't looking that flash for Trump at the moment and who knows what will happen to the black vote, or if Biden can provide sufficient assurances that will actually get the numbers even voting.

    As we learned last time, the electoral college system can be the deciding factor if you let things be close enough.

    A bit like giving the ref an opportunity to influence the result in a rugby game.

    I'm not sure Biden captures the imagination. He just has to play it straight and hope that Trump motivates enough people to come out and vote against him. If they get too petty it will devolve into a slanging match and Trump is quite adept at those

    Agree on the 'play it straight' part.
    Biden will need to look like the adult in the room offering leadership without being condescending.
    He does need to offer something though, and not rely on an 'anti' vote. If he offers nothing or a return to pre-Trump many of the voters that wanted 'any sort of change' will just not vote.
    I think non-votes will hurt Biden more than Trump.

    I would like to see him enter debates ready to call fact checks on Trump's lies.

    Whether Biden and the Dems can actually offer anything other than 'get rid of Trump' remains to be seen. He isnt the most inspiring pick.



  • @Siam said in US Politics:

    I think the bigger problem than trump or Biden is that the losing side will not accept the result and the whole thing will fester.

    We really need an alien attack very soon 😉

    A MAGA uprising? That would not turn out well.



  • @Crucial said in US Politics:

    @Siam said in US Politics:

    I think the bigger problem than trump or Biden is that the losing side will not accept the result and the whole thing will fester.

    We really need an alien attack very soon 😉

    A MAGA uprising? That would not turn out well.

    As compared to the last 4 years from the democrats? 🤔. It's all shit mate, same as brexit. Can we get losing graciously and committing to betterment within the rules on a national curriculum? 😁



  • @Crucial said in US Politics:

    @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    @reprobate said in US Politics:

    @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    I was a little concerned after Corona but I think the footage of the last few nights settles it.

    Congrats on 4 more years Mr Trump.

    Mate, this is a truly bizarre attitude and conclusion.

    These protests are no longer characterised by 'racial justice' they are now representative of random assaults on the street, vandalism, arson, destruction of peoples livelihoods and multiple murders (unsure how much footage is circulating in msm but their is plenty on social potentially further discrediting the CNN types ). Democrats have largely been in support of the protests (and antifa) while Republicans have largely been against and Trump in particular has been strongly against. Support for Federal & Military action to shutdown the protests is now in the majority (https://assets.morningconsult.com/wp-uploads/2020/06/01181629/2005131_crosstabs_POLICE_RVs_FINAL_LM-1.pdf) and democrat State representatives have proven they will not help protect people or property, a terrific advertisement for the importance of the 2nd amendment.

    Not holding my breath for BLM to actually give a damn about David Dorn or any other casualty of this. Black lives only matter to these people if it achieves a political aim.

    Hang on. You have fallen into the trap of not seperating the actual peaceful protests from those looking to take advantage of civil disobedience. It isn't a party line thing at all. People regardless of political slant are against assault, looting, rioting etc (as shown by laws agreed as such)

    Don't get me wrong I agree that peaceful protest and rioters and thugs are different entities but these protests are now characterised by these events. When people look back to this they are going to see the murders, assaults, burnt out businesses. This is not a 1963 March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom. This is an orgy of destruction.

    Funnily enough Stuff aren't covering it any more, CNN not doing much better, I'd be guessing the usual outlets are turning a blind eye, god forbid news be reported. Social media giants are coming to the party and nixing videos that don't back the 'peaceful protestors, evil police' narrative, thank god some folk are taking records.

    https://pastelink.net/1o8cv



  • @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    Don't get me wrong I agree that peaceful protest and rioters and thugs are different entities but these protests are now characterised by these events. When people look back to this they are going to see the murders, assaults, burnt out businesses. This is not a 1963 March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom. This is an orgy of destruction.

    I disagree. Once again the historical significance of this is still incredibly unclear. There's a chance this is a real tipping point in race relations in the US. What that leads to I'm not sure, but I think your political perspective is shining through with statements like the above. You are seeing these things, therefore you assume everyone is. I'm not sure that is the case at all.



  • @barbarian said in US Politics:

    @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    Don't get me wrong I agree that peaceful protest and rioters and thugs are different entities but these protests are now characterised by these events. When people look back to this they are going to see the murders, assaults, burnt out businesses. This is not a 1963 March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom. This is an orgy of destruction.

    I disagree. Once again the historical significance of this is still incredibly unclear. There's a chance this is a real tipping point in race relations in the US. What that leads to I'm not sure, but I think your political perspective is shining through with statements like the above. You are seeing these things, therefore you assume everyone is. I'm not sure that is the case at all.

    Totally fine to disagree on this. No doubt watching footage of multiple murders in the last couple of days coupled with reporting of 'peaceful protests' is going to slant my view. If joe public got access to this footage too I'd wager their view would change substatially.

    Here's a running list of victims, for as long as Twitter allows it being up.



  • @Duluth said in US Politics:

    @antipodean said in US Politics:

    Excited delirium is a thing. As is the observation that consultants tend to provide the outcomes you hired them for...

    The broader problem is competing autopsies make the prosecutor's job much harder.

    One thing that complicates these autopsies is the Dr that is usually involved

    There's a massive amount of money in cases like this so they get the best doctor they can. One doctor has gotten so much experience he's become the default choice - Dr Micheal Baden

    There's nothing wrong with paying for the best but it does make conspiracy theorists get over excited when they see the cases he's been involved in: JFK, OJ, Phil Spector, Aaron Hernandez, Michael Brown, Jeffrey Epstein and now this case.

    He used to tell some funny stories about autopsies on 'Red Eye' years ago.. he's seen a lot of weird shit

    If only Fahmy Malak was still alive.



  • Oh and can we stop the slander of John McClane? He was a hero.



  • @Bones said in US Politics:

    Oh and can we stop the slander of John McClane? He was a hero.

    Was? Don’t tell me he’s dead too.



  • @JC said in US Politics:

    @Bones said in US Politics:

    Oh and can we stop the slander of John McClane? He was a hero.

    Was? Don’t tell me he’s dead too.

    Yep, big reveal right at the end. He's a ghost.



  • @Bones said in US Politics:

    @JC said in US Politics:

    @Bones said in US Politics:

    Oh and can we stop the slander of John McClane? He was a hero.

    Was? Don’t tell me he’s dead too.

    Yep, big reveal right at the end. He's a ghost.

    John McClane was Patrick Swayze?



  • @MajorRage said in US Politics:

    @Bones said in US Politics:

    @JC said in US Politics:

    @Bones said in US Politics:

    Oh and can we stop the slander of John McClane? He was a hero.

    Was? Don’t tell me he’s dead too.

    Yep, big reveal right at the end. He's a ghost.

    John McClane was Patrick Swayze?

    Well there's a common denominator innit.



  • @barbarian said in US Politics:

    @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    Don't get me wrong I agree that peaceful protest and rioters and thugs are different entities but these protests are now characterised by these events. When people look back to this they are going to see the murders, assaults, burnt out businesses. This is not a 1963 March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom. This is an orgy of destruction.

    I disagree. Once again the historical significance of this is still incredibly unclear. There's a chance this is a real tipping point in race relations in the US. What that leads to I'm not sure, but I think your political perspective is shining through with statements like the above. You are seeing these things, therefore you assume everyone is. I'm not sure that is the case at all.

    Not sure I agree with the above Barb's. The violence and looting is far outweighing the peaceful protests at the moment. People aren't calling the US a mess because of people holding vigils and going about things in a civilised manner. Will it stay this way and this be the lasting characteristic of the time period? There will have to be real change for that to happen, and I can't see any pivot point at the moment for it.

    When this calms down, I think history will look back at this for 3 main things

    1. The crime
    2. The criminal reaction
    3. The Trump reaction.

    All of which, are sadly shocking.



  • @MajorRage genuinely, what's been shocking about the trump reaction? You think his quote is defining?
    From the little I've seen his addresses to the nation have been pretty reasonable and met with majority approval.

    If it's just his use of the 1967 phrase, then ok, I understand that point of view



  • @Siam said in US Politics:

    @MajorRage genuinely, what's been shocking about the trump reaction? You think his quote is defining?
    From the little I've seen his addresses to the nation have been pretty reasonable and met with majority approval.

    If it's just his use of the 1967 phrase, then ok, I understand that point of view

    I don't feel that anything he is doing is really trying to calm down the situation. He may not be trying to enflame it, but its very easy to take the piss out of everything he does. From the tweets, to the photo op in front of the church of him holding the bible, to turning all the lights off in the white house. It comes across to me like a series of poorly thought out statement points, as opposed to any sort of real address of resolving the issues.

    It doesn't seem or feel Presidential at all. I know that's not his style, and it's worked for a lot of things over the past 3 years. But different times call for different measures.



  • @Bones said in US Politics:

    @JC said in US Politics:

    @Bones said in US Politics:

    Oh and can we stop the slander of John McClane? He was a hero.

    Was? Don’t tell me he’s dead too.

    Yep, big reveal right at the end. He's a ghost.

    Use the fucking spoiler function man



  • @voodoo said in US Politics:

    @Bones said in US Politics:

    @JC said in US Politics:

    @Bones said in US Politics:

    Oh and can we stop the slander of John McClane? He was a hero.

    Was? Don’t tell me he’s dead too.

    Yep, big reveal right at the end. He's a ghost.

    Use the fucking spoiler function man

    Tell that to the people who named the movie.



  • @MajorRage said in US Politics:

    Not sure I agree with the above Barb's. The violence and looting is far outweighing the peaceful protests at the moment. People aren't calling the US a mess because of people holding vigils and going about things in a civilised manner. Will it stay this way and this be the lasting characteristic of the time period? There will have to be real change for that to happen, and I can't see any pivot point at the moment for it.

    I suppose my point was it's too early to tell what the lasting legacy of this will be.

    I'm very cognisant of the fact that I am sitting in Australia, viewing this through a local media lens. I deliberately avoid politics on social media if I can, so like everyone my view is coloured by how I am taking in this situation. Someone sitting in Chicago will see a very different picture, or someone sitting near me who follows a particular left/right partisan feed on social media.

    What I see is widespread protest, which in some cities has led to looting and violence. I've seen a Presidential response which appears to be polarising, like most things Trump does. I'm not under any allusion this will lead to racial harmony and peace, but it might lead to something very different to the status quo.



  • @barbarian WE all agree on the hope. A stable US, is better for everybody.

    Not convinced this is the catalyst for anything other than short-term signalling yet myself. Hope I'm wrong.



  • @MajorRage said in US Politics:

    Not convinced this is the catalyst for anything other than short-term signalling yet myself. Hope I'm wrong.

    It could also be the catalyst for a prolonged, ugly conflict. Could really go anywhere IMO.



  • @Frank said in US Politics:

    77-year-old St. Louis retired Police Captain David Dorn was shot dead by looters when he tried to get them to stop looting a local pawn shop. Guy taking the video called 911 first.

    When the crims have guns the whole situation turns to custard real quick. Can't be reduced to a simple slogan.



  • @Siam said in US Politics:

    @MajorRage genuinely, what's been shocking about the trump reaction? You think his quote is defining?
    From the little I've seen his addresses to the nation have been pretty reasonable and met with majority approval.

    I fail to get the point of majority approval. That’s for when a politician wants to hedge his bets on re-election. It’s not the same as leadership, which is what’s missing here.

    Somehow the US has turned into a gerontocracy, with both parties’ likely candidates stupid old men. Maybe they were both clever once, but they’re not now. Biden acts like he’s suffering from dementia and Trump is a 140 character mind in a longform world.
    It’s sad it’s no longer shocking that Trump’s tendency to confuse what he thinks plays well in a tweet is the best response to any real world situation. Autocracy may play well in states where the political framework allows for it, but the US isn’t that place. Everybody in the country knows that ultimately they have the constitutional right to tell him to piss off, yet he continues to act as though ordering around free people will work. It doesn’t. He needs to find another way, and I think he’s too old to change, and too much a believer in his own myth for him to even think he needs to.

    And yet, where is the viable alternative? Charlatans, shallow panderers, mass-produced gladhanders who think a generic law degree is the ticket to wisdom that nobody else has, virtue signalling empty heads in bad American suits. How did a great country fall so low, so fast? From an embarrassment of riches to simply an embarrassment?

    Many of the smartest people I know are Americans. Trump and Biden aren’t fit to be seen in the same room as them. A pox on both their corrupt houses.



  • @JC thank you jc. Summed up well.



  • @JC said in US Politics:

    Biden acts like he’s suffering from dementia and Trump is a 140 character mind in a longform world.

    Particularly brilliant and concise summing up.



  • @Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:

    @Kirwan said in US Politics:

    This. Both parties strive to see people as part of seperate groups, and turn those groups on each other.
    Be it race, sexual orientation, views on guns or abortion, whatever.
    Democrats think Republicans are evil, Rebublicans think Democrats are immoral and want to destroy the country. So when horrible things happen like what this cop did, it's like lighting a flame on a powder keg.
    Nobody on either side of the political divides is trying to unite, it's all attack for their own advantage. It's a mess.

    Or perhaps the divide is with the people themselves?

    One group is happy with liberal immigration, outsourcing, chinese imports, etc, and thinks being socially progressive makes them good people. They struggle to understand how anyone could disagree with policies & beliefs that are obviously moral and right. Say, 30% of the population, quite wealthy, pretty much insulated from the effects of the policies they espouse.

    The other group sees too much immigration, cheap imports and economic policy as a threat to their prospects, have seen declining prosperity and who feel left behind and taken for granted. They are far more motivated by economic need than "social justice" and resent being labelled somehow morally inferior for thinking this. Say 30% who feel pretty powerless and ignored.

    The first group isn't going to give up their position of power and moral beliefs without a fight and the latter group aren't going to go away. The US needs serious leaders who want to unify people, but when you look at the political "giants" of the last ten years, the likes of Obama, Trump, Biden and Pelosi come to mind. That pretty much says it all.

    Agree with much of that @Victor-Meldrew.

    My view is that you could get the best leader for President and even VP, but you need strong if not better leadership at the state level. Strong leadership in the counties also. Law enforcement problems by some police in some states have long been a problem. It’s not symptomatic of politician X or politician Y.

    Whilst we’re rambling, for some time I’ve also held that one of the fundamental problems is the Constitution. Baseball is no longer America’s favourite past time, but rather interpretation of the Constitution!

    The ‘system’ (political, judicial, enforcement) is inherently adversarial. The legacies of past actions run so deep and have become ingrained in people’s identities which at an individual let alone a societal level are difficult to break down.

    Therefore Constitutional change is nigh on impossible. So what happens is the appointment of activist judges to interpret it in “like-minded” ways...



  • @JC said in US Politics:

    Many of the smartest people I know are Americans. Trump and Biden aren’t fit to be seen in the same room as them. A pox on both their corrupt houses.

    I know very little about Biden, but the criticism I have seen is largely about him being old and doddery rather than corrupt. The Democrat party sure, I would generally argue equally as bad as each other - but the willingness of so many Republicans to put up with and pretend to support Trump in order to retain power has them shading it at present for me.
    As to smart Americans - yes, there are still a shitload of them. Unfortunately smart and independent thinking is exactly what is going to get you nowhere (or fired) with Trump. That's the swamp he's been draining, the swamp of expertise, and re-filling it with sycophants. All Biden would have to do is not cause long term damage to the institutions to make a better president. Shit candidate? Sure, but when a cardboard cut-out would cause less harm than the alternative I don't think that particularly matters.



  • @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    @reprobate said in US Politics:

    @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    I was a little concerned after Corona but I think the footage of the last few nights settles it.

    Congrats on 4 more years Mr Trump.

    Mate, this is a truly bizarre attitude and conclusion.

    These protests are no longer characterised by 'racial justice' they are now representative of random assaults on the street, vandalism, arson, destruction of peoples livelihoods and multiple murders (unsure how much footage is circulating in msm but their is plenty on social potentially further discrediting the CNN types ). Democrats have largely been in support of the protests (and antifa) while Republicans have largely been against and Trump in particular has been strongly against. Support for Federal & Military action to shutdown the protests is now in the majority (https://assets.morningconsult.com/wp-uploads/2020/06/01181629/2005131_crosstabs_POLICE_RVs_FINAL_LM-1.pdf) and democrat State representatives have proven they will not help protect people or property, a terrific advertisement for the importance of the 2nd amendment.

    Not holding my breath for BLM to actually give a damn about David Dorn or any other casualty of this. Black lives only matter to these people if it achieves a political aim.

    What has any of that got to do with you saying that you were concerned 'after' corona, but the riots and violence have you happy that you think Trump will be re-elected?

    Corona is not over, 20000 new cases in the US yesterday.
    107000 Americans are dead from it, and still rising so will be many more yet. It's pretty poor that your concern is for the damage this might do to your favourite's election hopes.
    The protests/riots/looting/violence are a mess. It's pretty poor that you would be happy that you think your favourite's 'talking tough' on the issue means he'll be re-elected, or that you'd think it in any way appropriate to offer him congratulations during this.

    You've been sucked right into this alternate world political bullshit mate. It's not fiction, it's not a game. People are dying.



  • @reprobate said in US Politics:

    know very little about Biden, but the criticism I have seen is largely about him being old and doddery rather than corrupt.

    Google "Biden Ukrainian Oil"

    Some seriously dodgy family business dealings



  • @reprobate said in US Politics:

    I know very little about Biden, but the criticism I have seen is largely about him being old and doddery rather than corrupt.

    I think he has had a massive negative impact on the US over the last few decades. The laws he has written and/or advocated for are gross



  • @Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:

    @reprobate said in US Politics:

    know very little about Biden, but the criticism I have seen is largely about him being old and doddery rather than corrupt.

    Google "Biden Ukrainian Oil"

    Some seriously dodgy family business dealings

    Biden's corrupt for sure.

    He did (and bragged about it on tape) what Trump was accused of.

    Trump needs to smash the scum who have gone after him.
    Not with lies (that the Democrat leaders and fake news media knew were lies) that they threw at Trump. But with truth.



  • @Winger said in US Politics:

    @Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:

    @reprobate said in US Politics:

    know very little about Biden, but the criticism I have seen is largely about him being old and doddery rather than corrupt.

    Google "Biden Ukrainian Oil"

    Some seriously dodgy family business dealings

    Biden's corrupt for sure.

    He did (and bragged about it on tape) what Trump was accused of.

    Trump needs to smash the scum who have gone after him.
    Not with lies (that the Democrat leaders and fake news media knew were lies) that they threw at Trump. But with truth.

    Right, trump and truth. Good luck with that.



  • @reprobate said in US Politics:

    @Winger said in US Politics:

    @Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:

    @reprobate said in US Politics:

    know very little about Biden, but the criticism I have seen is largely about him being old and doddery rather than corrupt.

    Google "Biden Ukrainian Oil"

    Some seriously dodgy family business dealings

    Biden's corrupt for sure.

    He did (and bragged about it on tape) what Trump was accused of.

    Trump needs to smash the scum who have gone after him.
    Not with lies (that the Democrat leaders and fake news media knew were lies) that they threw at Trump. But with truth.

    Right, trump and truth. Good luck with that.

    Trump doesn't need to rely on lies to take his enemies down. That's the fortunate position he's in. He been investigated (costing many millions) for years and nothing was found. And what was found on his contacts (not him) is now slowly being discredited (like Flynn). But he must have a gold mine of real evidence on his opponents by now. (Biden for one of course helps by shooting his mouth off).



  • @mariner4life Yeah I know, it’s not funny anymore. Everyone is sick of it all over the world and if the people are not turned loose, if they don’t stop sitting on the safety valve and let some pressure off the people, everyone is going to explode and what happens is going to be worse than ANY disease.

    Anything can set it off, Like what is already happening in the US:

    https://www.ibtimes.com/clashes-outside-white-house-us-cities-under-curfew-2984800



  • @Ihadit Given what happened in Minneapolis and the state of US race relations, exacerbated by the greatest President ever in the world who has done more for blacks even than that fulla Abe - you were always going to get demonstrations and riots. COVID not to blame there.


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