Liam Messam shock AB recall ?



  • Genuine question, didn't make the Sevens team and Dixon didn't set the world on fire, stranger things have happened.....after all the welcome mat would have been out for SBW had he not made it I'm sure.
     
    Any chance he could do it or have the ABs moved on from him ?



  • Well he is off to Toshiba shortly if that answers your question.



  • Well he is off to Toshiba shortly if that answers your question.

    Well that's the end of that thread then.



  • Yes I've noticed the AB water bottle carrier standards have not been world class this season. Definitely would be a massive boost to have Liam back.



  • Yes I've noticed the AB water bottle carrier standards have not been world class this season. Definitely would be a massive boost to have Liam back.

    Thought AC did quite a good job in Dunners ...



  • And suuurrely Luatua is closer ...



  • Thought AC did quite a good job in Dunners ...

    1. Did he wear a cap back to front?
    2. Did he get involved in a fight?
      I feel Liam brings a hard edge which has been missing so far this season. You just know England will soon have an enforcer in the water bottle carrier role.


  • Genuine question, didn't make the Sevens team and Dixon didn't set the world on fire, stranger things have happened.....after all the welcome mat would have been out for SBW had he not made it I'm sure.
    Any chance he could do it or have the ABs moved on from him ?

    Is this a Messam thread or another thread where you have a go at SBW?
    Genuine question.....



  • Is this a Messam thread or another thread where you have a go at SBW?
    Genuine question.....

    Statement of fact. Had he not made it I bet he'd be in the ABs.



  • why would it be a shock?  He's never let the side down, is a genuine leader/mentor to younger players and if he still has the skills, why not?  Given his 7's break, he's probably fitter than he's ever been before.



  • why would it be a shock?  He's never let the side down, is a genuine leader/mentor to younger players and if he still has the skills, why not?  Given his 7's break, he's probably fitter than he's ever been before.

    Well ok, not a shock of Donald proportions but still a definite surprise.



  • Donald wasn't an omission, was all part of the plan, made for better viewing!



  • Donald wasn't an omission, was all part of the plan, made for better viewing!

    Well my facebook feed says that he's getting recalled this year, definitely true if it's on there.



  • Well ok, not a shock of Donald proportions but still a definite surprise.

    so when they both get recalls..???



  • Yes I've noticed the AB water bottle carrier standards have not been world class this season. Definitely would be a massive boost to have Liam back.

    Certainly given that the AB water carrier will be lined up against Nathan Gray. I think a hard man like Messam is needed to counter that threat.



  • I think with Messam who has just turned 32 and was a mainstay in the ABs (started at blindside whilst Kaino went OS), will be given every opportunity by the coaches to be brought back. Well I hope so any way. I think he's got just as much if not more to offer than Squire, Dixon, Luatua have.



  • I'm not sure if the coaches will want to carry another backrower who is in their 30s.



  • I'm not sure if the coaches will want to carry another backrower who is in their 30s.

    We currently only have two backrowers in their 30s and neither of them are in the "Brad Thorn 30s" category (read 30 and Kaino 33)....
     
    The Lions series will be a big carrot for Kaino and Messam given they were not in the AB squad back in 2005.



  • We currently only have two backrowers in their 30s and neither of them are in the "Brad Thorn 30s" category (read 30 and Kaino 33)....
     
    The Lions series will be a big carrot for Kaino and Messam given they were not in the AB squad back in 2005.

    One's captain and the other is first choice in his position. They're hardly being "carried"
     
    I can't be fucked looking it up but is anyone else even 30 in the team ?



  • Ben Smith and Romano are both 30.



  • Crockett is an oldie as well at 33



  • Ben Smith and Romano are both 30.

    So Grandpa Messam might get a look in based on that then.



  • We currently only have two backrowers in their 30s and neither of them are in the "Brad Thorn 30s" category (read 30 and Kaino 33)....
     
    The Lions series will be a big carrot for Kaino and Messam given they were not in the AB squad back in 2005.

    The thing is, Messam plays the same positions as those two backrowers in their 30s. With the World Cup done, I don't really want to see an old guy backing up the other old guys, I'd rather see some younger guys developing behind them.



  • be interesting to see what they do, not often the AB coaches could be accused of looking back when moving forward, and while you have Dixon and Squire to step in, the cauldren of TRC rugby might make them go with tried and true, that being said, I'd be a little surprised if they went back to Messam and didnt keep moving forward with the other 2.



  • I'm not sure that he's available anyway - he needed permission from Toshiba to play Super rugby. From my understanding, he'll come back for Super rugby next year, but that's it.



  • The thing is, Messam plays the same positions as those two backrowers in their 30s. With the World Cup done, I don't really want to see an old guy backing up the other old guys, I'd rather see some younger guys developing behind them.

    Which is a fair point, but given the immediate step down of the 5 legends of last year, I would have thought keeping a bit of leadership experience in there for a year or 2 wouldn't hurt.



  • I heard an interview with Messam on Sunday , and he was talking about what happens next  , 
     
    And he mentioned the uncertainty , he is on stand by for the Olympic Squad , but is also looking at getting back into 15s rugby , 
     
    His playing weight for 7s is a fair bit lighter , so its a bit of a balancing act for him right now



  • So Grandpa Messam might get a look in based on that then.

    He'll get a look-in - as with them (and SBW) if he is the first choice standout in his position (as Kaino, SBW & Read are).
     
    Is it 2013? Is he?
     
    Is he fuck.
     
    He'll be off to toshiba as contracted to take a well earned paycheck & one of the crop of Squire, Luatua or Dixon will develop to a level theyare good enough to ride pine behind the current guys. Only way he gets a look in is if Kaino is ruled out for the RC



  • I'm not sure that he's available anyway - he needed permission from Toshiba to play Super rugby. From my understanding, he'll come back for Super rugby next year, but that's it.

    Exactly.  He'll be back with the Chiefs for 2017 but has a Japanese club season to play this season.



  • Exactly.  He'll be back with the Chiefs for 2017 but has a Japanese club season to play this season.

    he's on the bench this weekend for the chiefs?



  • he's on the bench this weekend for the chiefs?

    See gt12s post above.  Toshiba have given Messam permission to play for the Chiefs for the remainder of this comp only (as he would have had for the Sevens).  Then he goes to Japan and is back in NZ for 2017.



  • Unashamed Messam fan here, but this is a good article by Paul
     



  • Wrong thread sorry



  • Unashamed Messam fan here, but this is a good article by Paul
     

    It most certainly is.
     
    "In a world where parents have to be taught how to behave on the sidelines, Messam is the guiding light on how to retain perspective. His All Blacks dream smashed in 2011, he vowed only to work harder. His Olympic dream smashed in 2016, he vowed only to work harder.
     
    Sport isn't fair and nor is it so serious as to justify misplacing the moral compass when injustice strikes. Fate can be both kind and cruel and true champions make peace with that, accepting both with equal grace."





  • Guy who has played two games can't play, guy who has played no games can ....



  • Guy who has played two games can't play, guy who has played no games can ....

    I guess the rules are particularly designed to stop e.g. the Stormers turning up in Wellington with Matfield, Habana and assorted other SA stars who might currently be playing in Europe but available for a three week "finals" contract.



  • yeah when I first read it thought it was a bit harsh but then again thems the rules and you are right if they allow this wouldn't be long before a completely different team fronts up for the final.



  • I guess the rules are particularly designed to stop e.g. the Stormers turning up in Wellington with Matfield, Habana and assorted other SA stars who might currently be playing in Europe but available for a three week "finals" contract.

    Messam's case isn't really that though is it (neither is Lambie's)? He's played two games in regular season in a team with an extremely long injury list in the position he plays. That's why the Chiefs asked for a special dispensation. It's clearly not a case of bringing in players just for the finals.
     
    If the Chiefs had named him in their squad on naming day last year he'd be fine to play, but because they didn't the Chiefs need to select a 7 to cover for a 6/8.
     
    Meanwhile the Stormers have had four players brought into their squad before the finals only because they were named in the original squad back then. 
     
    It's the rules as they sit, but they seem weird if they allow a player to come in who hasn't played for a player not injured but leaving to play for another team and then not let player's who have played games as 'injury' replacements play.



  • If the Chiefs had named him in their squad on naming day last year he'd be fine to play, but because they didn't the Chiefs need to select a 7 to cover for a 6/8.

    I guess the question they're asking is "Have you got four fit loose forwards who were named in your original squad and can reasonably cover the match requirements"?
     
    Seems like the answer is "Yes".
     
    Supplementary question.
     
    Then why do you need Messam?
     
    Probable answer - because he's a shit load better than Koloamatangi.
     
    I think even the delay in deciding on his eligibility is quite explicable, because the first question couldn't be answered until after the final play-off game.


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