Bench press - do you guys count the weight of the bar or not ?
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You gotta remember that this stuff is their frickin job. They have structured weeks where they do weights fresh (not after a day at work) they have exeprt advice during sessions and they have expert nutritionists giving them tej materials they need. Plus Gregan and Percy will now be in their 10th year of professionalism and will have all that time of building their rmuscles to this level of performance. <br />
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Interestingly there was an interview with a St Helens rugbyt league player the other week who was asked what was his best weight pushed on bench press. He said something along the lines of "we don't do much of that to be honest, we generally do a lot of own body weight exercises"<br />
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Interesting i thought. -
[quote name='Fullermorg']<br />
You gotta remember that this stuff is their frickin job. They have structured weeks where they do weights fresh (not after a day at work) they have exeprt advice during sessions and they have expert nutritionists giving them tej materials they need. Plus Gregan and Percy will now be in their 10th year of professionalism and will have all that time of building their rmuscles to this level of performance. <br />
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Interestingly there was an interview with a St Helens rugbyt league player the other week who was asked what was his best weight pushed on bench press. He said something along the lines of "we don't do much of that to be honest, we generally do a lot of own body weight exercises"<br />
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Interesting i thought.<br />
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Sounds a bit like hes pulling our legs, leaguies have been into weights heaps longer than union players ! -
Not really - being overly musclebound in league isn't a lot of help, especially as a forward where you're on the move a fair bit and rarely exceed 100kg. You don't need the sustained anaerobic power that e.g. a prop does in rugby, where you have to push at scrums or rucks or mauls, or lift at lineouts. Its more about impact, twitch muscles, and speed.<br />
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While we think they get a bit more of a rest than our blokes, you need to keep in mind that half the game you're retreating and then advancing 5-10 metres at a time, while trying to smash some bloke in between. Can be quite exhausting, where Union we get to stand right up at the advantage line. -
[quote name='NTA']<br />
Not really - being overly musclebound in league isn't a lot of help, especially as a forward where you're on the move a fair bit and rarely exceed 100kg. You don't need the sustained anaerobic power that e.g. a prop does in rugby, where you have to push at scrums or rucks or mauls, or lift at lineouts. Its more about impact, twitch muscles, and speed.<br />
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While we think they get a bit more of a rest than our blokes, you need to keep in mind that half the game you're retreating and then advancing 5-10 metres at a time, while trying to smash some bloke in between. Can be quite exhausting, where Union we get to stand right up at the advantage line.<br />
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Agree and disagree NTA, I'm sure they do a lot of plyometric training but you can bet there'd be a fair bit of iron pressed as well. Look at guys like Brad Thorn, Ian Roberts, Willie Mason.....certainly no strangers to the weight room ! -
That ten-metre retreat is exhausting; it's one of the reasons we use it - very successfully - as a "Learn to make correct decisions while about to puke your lungs" exercise.<br />
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That said, lifting isn't about grunt, it's about timing. Catch your jumper just right, it's all momentum, and they weigh nothing. John Hayes' party trick is his solo lift of POC. Now, the Bull's Ms. Thomond's second cousin, and a mighty man for one man, but not even he can get the weight of POC up that high on his own on raw strength - it's timing.<br />
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I was over 100kg when weighing in at 93 kgs weight back in April. Then things got busy-busy and haven't been benching since. It's so bad, and I've lost so much muscle, I almost don't want to go back to find out how bad it is...Â
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Timing is the key, but it helps to have grunt. We lift our flankers because the locks are actually two fat bastards who can't jump (ie. me and another bloke <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />). Some teams we've come up against lift their 80kg hooker or midget French openside because its easier than trying to shift their Tongan second row more than 6 inches off the ground.<br />
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[quote name='MN5']<br />
Agree and disagree NTA, I'm sure they do a lot of plyometric training but you can bet there'd be a fair bit of iron pressed as well. Look at guys like Brad Thorn, Ian Roberts, Willie Mason.....certainly no strangers to the weight room !<br />
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Yeah they do weights, but what's the point of lifting 200kg on your pectorals for a game of league? There is no point where you need to engage and try to crush your opponent like in a scrum. If you overdo your weights work, there is no place on the field for you. Cliffy Palu for the Tahs didn't end up getting much time at the Dragons because he was 120kg - too heavy! -
[quote name='NTA']<br />
Timing is the key, but it helps to have grunt. We lift our flankers because the locks are actually two fat bastards who can't jump (ie. me and another bloke <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />). Some teams we've come up against lift their 80kg hooker or midget French openside because its easier than trying to shift their Tongan second row more than 6 inches off the ground.<br />
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[quote name='MN5']<br />
Agree and disagree NTA, I'm sure they do a lot of plyometric training but you can bet there'd be a fair bit of iron pressed as well. Look at guys like Brad Thorn, Ian Roberts, Willie Mason.....certainly no strangers to the weight room !<br />
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Yeah they do weights, but what's the point of lifting 200kg on your pectorals for a game of league? There is no point where you need to engage and try to crush your opponent like in a scrum. If you overdo your weights work, there is no place on the field for you. Cliffy Palu for the Tahs didn't end up getting much time at the Dragons because he was 120kg - too heavy!<br />
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Totally agree, too many muscles and you're not mobile and as such no use at all. The trick is to get the balance right !<br />
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Did Palu used to play for St George ? ( sorry don't follow league as much as I should ! ) -
Yeah they signed him because of his physicality, but he could never get his weight down to the level of mobility they wanted.<br />
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[quote name='Thomond78']<br />
Nick, you're a prop - or have been. So - strength and no technique, a la Andrew Sheridan, or technique and less strength - which would you rather have? :coolsmiley: <br />
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Both! :coolsmiley: At my level - if you can pack low and push hard, then that's all the technique you need <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> I was tighthead lock on the weekend, and our THP was getting an absolute mullering from a bloke a bit skinnier than him. As soon as the hooker I told him to get down further, we handed him a complete smashing - oppo hooker's feet were off the deck (though he was a good 6 inches shorter than either prop too :nta).<br />
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To actually answer the question: a balance of both is good. I'd rather be a 1.8m 100kg prop (I'd like to be a 100kg anything!) who could bench his own weight and pack lower, than a 1.9m 130kg prop who could lift a truck but was more bent on the engagement than a Darlinghurst rent boy. -
Richard Loe was a very very powerful man with average technique while Olo Brown was strong (but not massive), but excellent technically. Both were very good props. When propping against a guy physically your equal, better technique, willpower and teamwork will give you the advantage.<br />
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Or as my former Swansea front row mates once told me: "A props first job is to beat his man in the scrum. If you cant beat him in the scrum you have to beat him around the pitch. If you cant beat him around the pitch or the scrum, then you have to beat him up." -
Quality RB! <br />
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Bench press was one of my fav exercises until my training partner dropped out because of injury, now i can't really go heavy on a lift so have almost stopped doing it. Now i am using dumbell press, flys and dips etc... as well as some incline smith work to compensate and i have had bigger gains in that period funnily enough.<br />
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Anyway, last night did the weighted dips, with a 10kg plate. Bastard! reps on sets went from 10 to 4. I was fucked. Gonna stick with it though as it was obviously doing some quality damage to the muscles. -
[quote name='Fullermorg']<br />
Quality RB! <br />
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Bench press was one of my fav exercises until my training partner dropped out because of injury, now i can't really go heavy on a lift so have almost stopped doing it. Now i am using dumbell press, flys and dips etc... as well as some incline smith work to compensate and i have had bigger gains in that period funnily enough.<br />
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Anyway, last night did the weighted dips, with a 10kg plate. Bastard! reps on sets went from 10 to 4. I was fucked. Gonna stick with it though as it was obviously doing some quality damage to the muscles.<br />
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You can feel the burn when you do those aye !!! relatively safe too, if you arms give way your legs prevent you hitting the floor at a great rate of knots !!! -
[quote name='Fullermorg']<br />
Now i am using dumbell press, flys and dips etc... as well as some incline smith work to compensate and i have had bigger gains in that period funnily enough.[/quote]<br />
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Gains in muscle size, or gains in weight? Keep in mind that flyes will offer you key differences in the way in which your muscles pull that weight, relying more on the chest and less on the complete system of lifting. Bench works your triceps more than flyes would, for example. -
[quote name='NTA']<br />
[quote name='Fullermorg']<br />
Now i am using dumbell press, flys and dips etc... as well as some incline smith work to compensate and i have had bigger gains in that period funnily enough.[/quote]<br />
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Gains in muscle size, or gains in weight? Keep in mind that flyes will offer you key differences in the way in which your muscles pull that weight, relying more on the chest and less on the complete system of lifting. Bench works your triceps more than flyes would, for example.<br />
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Gains in both to be honest. I have tagged supersets on biceps and triceps onto the end of my normal Chest Sessions/Back and Shoudler sessions since i have been off the bench press.<br />
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I can notice a size diff and i have gone from being on the 14stone 5/7lbs level to the 14stone 9/10lb level. This might sound minimal but for a hard gainer like ,yself it has been best results yet. -
[quote name='Fullermorg']<br />
This might sound minimal but for a hard gainer like ,yself it has been best results yet.<br />
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At over 18st, I think you mean "fat bastard" <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /><br />
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Your gains there are interesting - flyes are excellent for chest because its pulling the whole muscle fibre in and out in reasonable isolation. Supersets of anything should be encouraged in my book <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> -
[quote name='NTA']<br />
[quote name='Fullermorg']<br />
This might sound minimal but for a hard gainer like ,yself it has been best results yet.<br />
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At over 18st, I think you mean "fat bastard" <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /><br />
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Your gains there are interesting - flyes are excellent for chest because its pulling the whole muscle fibre in and out in reasonable isolation. Supersets of anything should be encouraged in my book <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /><br />
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Its not a direct swap to be honest, now i am religious about dumbell press/pec dec or flys/incline press/dips, whereas previously i might leave one of these out of a session if i was benching heavy.<br />
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Love the supersets, end of supersetting a lot more now i train on my own, because i want to get out of there, whereas before i would chat with training partner etc.. -
My favourite chest exercises are now press ups with a 20kg plate on my back, and close grip press ups with your hands balanced on top a medicine ball. Finish your chest workout with one of those and you'll be lovin it! The weighted press ups are especially good for athletes as I read somewhere some NFL fitness coach never advocated Bench Press, as very rarely do you have the need to lie on your back and throw something heavy up in the air, as opposed to getting up from your guts off the deck. Interesting I thought :nta Dips are superb.
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[quote]Dips are superb.[/quote] Although it is very rare that you find a pair of dip bars on the sports field and have to dip... <br />
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Bench press is for strength - nothing more, it is not a sports specific exercise, so to speak, so that is interesting, but not very releevant - as my above sentence points out - or tries too!! -
The way I weight train now I perform one push exercise, one pull, one type of squat and one core ex per workout. And I vary my exercises each time so for the push I could alternate BB Bench, DB Bench (Incline/Decline on bench or ball), Standing DB Press or Standing BB Press. I never use machines or isolation exercises, its all free weight variations of Chins, Cleans, Deadlifts, Squats, Presses etc. Usually do something like 4 sets of 5 to 10 reps per exercise and I do weights two or three time per week. Ive never been stronger in my life and my workouts are usually over in about 45 minutes. I feel fresh every time I train because I have one or two days rest between each workout. I used to do far too many exercises for each bodypart and train far too long/too many days a week. Im champing at the bit for every session now. Only took my about 18 years of weights to finally realise less is more.
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that sounds familiar RB - less is more. I have been working out pretty much the same - two main bodyparts each workout (legs, back, chest, shoulders), and then every second workout I throw in 'beach muscles' - arms!!<br />
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I will always squat, deadlift, bench press and shoulder press, but the other three exercises I do per body part will change each workout. <br />
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SO getting the the gym three times a week, and loving it to - fresh every time. Dodgy shoulder coming right too, starting to be able to lift some heavier weights on the bench and shoulder press.<br />
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Also gyming either at 6:00am or at lunch, so when I get home at the end of the day family comes first.
