Bench press - do you guys count the weight of the bar or not ?
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[quote name='NTA']<br />
Timing is the key, but it helps to have grunt. We lift our flankers because the locks are actually two fat bastards who can't jump (ie. me and another bloke <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />). Some teams we've come up against lift their 80kg hooker or midget French openside because its easier than trying to shift their Tongan second row more than 6 inches off the ground.<br />
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[quote name='MN5']<br />
Agree and disagree NTA, I'm sure they do a lot of plyometric training but you can bet there'd be a fair bit of iron pressed as well. Look at guys like Brad Thorn, Ian Roberts, Willie Mason.....certainly no strangers to the weight room !<br />
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Yeah they do weights, but what's the point of lifting 200kg on your pectorals for a game of league? There is no point where you need to engage and try to crush your opponent like in a scrum. If you overdo your weights work, there is no place on the field for you. Cliffy Palu for the Tahs didn't end up getting much time at the Dragons because he was 120kg - too heavy!<br />
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Totally agree, too many muscles and you're not mobile and as such no use at all. The trick is to get the balance right !<br />
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Did Palu used to play for St George ? ( sorry don't follow league as much as I should ! ) -
Yeah they signed him because of his physicality, but he could never get his weight down to the level of mobility they wanted.<br />
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[quote name='Thomond78']<br />
Nick, you're a prop - or have been. So - strength and no technique, a la Andrew Sheridan, or technique and less strength - which would you rather have? :coolsmiley: <br />
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Both! :coolsmiley: At my level - if you can pack low and push hard, then that's all the technique you need <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> I was tighthead lock on the weekend, and our THP was getting an absolute mullering from a bloke a bit skinnier than him. As soon as the hooker I told him to get down further, we handed him a complete smashing - oppo hooker's feet were off the deck (though he was a good 6 inches shorter than either prop too :nta).<br />
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To actually answer the question: a balance of both is good. I'd rather be a 1.8m 100kg prop (I'd like to be a 100kg anything!) who could bench his own weight and pack lower, than a 1.9m 130kg prop who could lift a truck but was more bent on the engagement than a Darlinghurst rent boy. -
Richard Loe was a very very powerful man with average technique while Olo Brown was strong (but not massive), but excellent technically. Both were very good props. When propping against a guy physically your equal, better technique, willpower and teamwork will give you the advantage.<br />
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Or as my former Swansea front row mates once told me: "A props first job is to beat his man in the scrum. If you cant beat him in the scrum you have to beat him around the pitch. If you cant beat him around the pitch or the scrum, then you have to beat him up." -
Quality RB! <br />
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Bench press was one of my fav exercises until my training partner dropped out because of injury, now i can't really go heavy on a lift so have almost stopped doing it. Now i am using dumbell press, flys and dips etc... as well as some incline smith work to compensate and i have had bigger gains in that period funnily enough.<br />
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Anyway, last night did the weighted dips, with a 10kg plate. Bastard! reps on sets went from 10 to 4. I was fucked. Gonna stick with it though as it was obviously doing some quality damage to the muscles. -
[quote name='Fullermorg']<br />
Quality RB! <br />
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Bench press was one of my fav exercises until my training partner dropped out because of injury, now i can't really go heavy on a lift so have almost stopped doing it. Now i am using dumbell press, flys and dips etc... as well as some incline smith work to compensate and i have had bigger gains in that period funnily enough.<br />
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Anyway, last night did the weighted dips, with a 10kg plate. Bastard! reps on sets went from 10 to 4. I was fucked. Gonna stick with it though as it was obviously doing some quality damage to the muscles.<br />
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You can feel the burn when you do those aye !!! relatively safe too, if you arms give way your legs prevent you hitting the floor at a great rate of knots !!! -
[quote name='Fullermorg']<br />
Now i am using dumbell press, flys and dips etc... as well as some incline smith work to compensate and i have had bigger gains in that period funnily enough.[/quote]<br />
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Gains in muscle size, or gains in weight? Keep in mind that flyes will offer you key differences in the way in which your muscles pull that weight, relying more on the chest and less on the complete system of lifting. Bench works your triceps more than flyes would, for example. -
[quote name='NTA']<br />
[quote name='Fullermorg']<br />
Now i am using dumbell press, flys and dips etc... as well as some incline smith work to compensate and i have had bigger gains in that period funnily enough.[/quote]<br />
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Gains in muscle size, or gains in weight? Keep in mind that flyes will offer you key differences in the way in which your muscles pull that weight, relying more on the chest and less on the complete system of lifting. Bench works your triceps more than flyes would, for example.<br />
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Gains in both to be honest. I have tagged supersets on biceps and triceps onto the end of my normal Chest Sessions/Back and Shoudler sessions since i have been off the bench press.<br />
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I can notice a size diff and i have gone from being on the 14stone 5/7lbs level to the 14stone 9/10lb level. This might sound minimal but for a hard gainer like ,yself it has been best results yet. -
[quote name='Fullermorg']<br />
This might sound minimal but for a hard gainer like ,yself it has been best results yet.<br />
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At over 18st, I think you mean "fat bastard" <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /><br />
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Your gains there are interesting - flyes are excellent for chest because its pulling the whole muscle fibre in and out in reasonable isolation. Supersets of anything should be encouraged in my book <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> -
[quote name='NTA']<br />
[quote name='Fullermorg']<br />
This might sound minimal but for a hard gainer like ,yself it has been best results yet.<br />
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At over 18st, I think you mean "fat bastard" <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /><br />
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Your gains there are interesting - flyes are excellent for chest because its pulling the whole muscle fibre in and out in reasonable isolation. Supersets of anything should be encouraged in my book <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /><br />
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Its not a direct swap to be honest, now i am religious about dumbell press/pec dec or flys/incline press/dips, whereas previously i might leave one of these out of a session if i was benching heavy.<br />
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Love the supersets, end of supersetting a lot more now i train on my own, because i want to get out of there, whereas before i would chat with training partner etc.. -
My favourite chest exercises are now press ups with a 20kg plate on my back, and close grip press ups with your hands balanced on top a medicine ball. Finish your chest workout with one of those and you'll be lovin it! The weighted press ups are especially good for athletes as I read somewhere some NFL fitness coach never advocated Bench Press, as very rarely do you have the need to lie on your back and throw something heavy up in the air, as opposed to getting up from your guts off the deck. Interesting I thought :nta Dips are superb.
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[quote]Dips are superb.[/quote] Although it is very rare that you find a pair of dip bars on the sports field and have to dip... <br />
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Bench press is for strength - nothing more, it is not a sports specific exercise, so to speak, so that is interesting, but not very releevant - as my above sentence points out - or tries too!! -
The way I weight train now I perform one push exercise, one pull, one type of squat and one core ex per workout. And I vary my exercises each time so for the push I could alternate BB Bench, DB Bench (Incline/Decline on bench or ball), Standing DB Press or Standing BB Press. I never use machines or isolation exercises, its all free weight variations of Chins, Cleans, Deadlifts, Squats, Presses etc. Usually do something like 4 sets of 5 to 10 reps per exercise and I do weights two or three time per week. Ive never been stronger in my life and my workouts are usually over in about 45 minutes. I feel fresh every time I train because I have one or two days rest between each workout. I used to do far too many exercises for each bodypart and train far too long/too many days a week. Im champing at the bit for every session now. Only took my about 18 years of weights to finally realise less is more.
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that sounds familiar RB - less is more. I have been working out pretty much the same - two main bodyparts each workout (legs, back, chest, shoulders), and then every second workout I throw in 'beach muscles' - arms!!<br />
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I will always squat, deadlift, bench press and shoulder press, but the other three exercises I do per body part will change each workout. <br />
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SO getting the the gym three times a week, and loving it to - fresh every time. Dodgy shoulder coming right too, starting to be able to lift some heavier weights on the bench and shoulder press.<br />
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Also gyming either at 6:00am or at lunch, so when I get home at the end of the day family comes first. -
Have either of you guys perused this by any chance ? <br />
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[url="http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/69/"]http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/69/[/url]<br />
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I've just started doing this for pull ups and bench press and it suits me pretty well. ( so far !! admittedly am on my first week ) I shoot home for lunch just about every day so will bust out 3 sets over an hour then another 5 or so over the course of the evening. Not recommended for people unless they live in a gym but as I'm lucky enough to have a bench and weights out in the garage I can go out and do them in an ad break if I feel like it. Obviously you have to resist the temptation to go to failure as that apparently messes things up totally but from what I've read this won't make you any bigger but will make you stronger which suits me down to the ground. Similiar principle to learing a musical instrument, little bits each day as opposed to going hard out and resting for days on end. Training your muscle "memory" as it were.....<br />
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Basically it goes against what everyone is taught ie "force out one more rep to tear the muscle to get bigger and stronger etcetcetc" but definitely thought provoking and surely can't do any harm so I''m keen to give it a go for awhile and see what happens. -
[quote]The synaptic facilitation power plan can be summed up as lifting heavy weights as often as possible while staying 'fresh as a cucumber' (Russkies have a thing against daisies, you wouldn't understand). Contrary to what some snobby pantywaists believe, this heavy, high volume approach is not an iron fossil but one of the most scientific approaches to strength training there is. "Chain yourself to the squat rack and call me in a year." Words to live by. [/quote]<br />
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The last paragraph - sums it up. All about keeping fresh - in mind also. The Bulgarian programme is lift heavy and lift often, and rest in between. Easy for professional athletes attached to steroid drips, not so easy for we mortals. But it worked for me all those yearsa ago. -
[quote name='BartMan'][quote]The synaptic facilitation power plan can be summed up as lifting heavy weights as often as possible while staying 'fresh as a cucumber' (Russkies have a thing against daisies, you wouldn't understand). Contrary to what some snobby pantywaists believe, this heavy, high volume approach is not an iron fossil but one of the most scientific approaches to strength training there is. "Chain yourself to the squat rack and call me in a year." Words to live by. [/quote]<br />
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The last paragraph - sums it up. All about keeping fresh - in mind also. The Bulgarian programme is lift heavy and lift often, and rest in between. Easy for professional athletes attached to steroid drips, not so easy for we mortals. But it worked for me all those yearsa ago.[/quote]<br />
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Well if I'm hanging round home getting bored I can always pop out for a quick set so that side of it appeals to me, like I said not so applicable if I was to shoot down to the gym every couple of hours. Will definitely give the joints a rest every few days though, that would appear to be the sensible thing to do ! -
[quote name='davidav']Of course you count the weight of the bar. It's weight. You're lifting it. So it counts. An olympic size bar is 45 lbs or exactly 20 kgs.[/quote]<br />
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I'm using a bar that I estimate to weigh 0.00000000001 kg, I also have an olympic bar for deadlifts that would be 10 of 15kg but is 7 feet long and I prefer the other one for benching ( although it has a slight bend due to strain from the weights ) <br />
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As discussed previously my weights set up in the garage goes against lots of health and safety rules so I'm not too concerned about a slight bend ! -
MN5, mine and Prop curils olympic bar had a massive bend in it - from dropping off our home built squat rack onto our home built bench. Was fine for everything, but for putting the bar back onto the rack after doing squats, with the bend, I could hardly get it back onto the pegs!! Had to do calf raises!!