Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@gt12 mandates at our levels of vaccination and in the face of Omicron are ridiculous and have no basis in logic.
This week I've experienced it for myself. My niece had a friend over to my bro's last week. The friend was told by an acquaintance on Saturday that she needed to have a test; she did and came back positive. In the meantime he and his wife had been out with us (dinner, so masks not on) and to work. They let us know and got tested. We were told not to because we aren't close contacts and were asymptomatic. Anyway now we're all clear, but guess how many people were self-isolating because of a single contact.
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I can only imagine how that plays out when there are younger kids involved, or large families, or crowded homes. This can't possibly work.
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@jc said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@gt12 mandates at our levels of vaccination and in the face of Omicron are ridiculous and have no basis in logic.
This week I've experienced it for myself. My niece had a friend over to my bro's last week. The friend was told by an acquaintance on Saturday that she needed to have a test; she did and came back positive. In the meantime he and his wife had been out with us (dinner, so masks not on) and to work. They let us know and got tested. We were told not to because we aren't close contacts and were asymptomatic. Anyway now we're all clear, but guess how many people were self-isolating because of a single contact.
12
I can only imagine how that plays out when there are younger kids involved, or large families, or crowded homes. This can't possibly work.
again, lessons that could have been learned from looking over the ditch
Look how quickly the casual contact thing got rissoled. And then close contacts got shifted to essentially living together. Because they took a look and saw that conceivably the entire country could get locked down.
Of course the usual crowd decried this as putting money before health. But those people were ignored. And then all shut up when the evidence was fucking laid out in front of them
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@jc as I said above, I have spoken to a number of people that have simply stopped scanning, as well as club coaches in codes who have told thier players that if they test positive, dont say they been at training.
The harsh iso rules are forcing people to do what they can to avoid them if they arent feeling ill.
Was speaking to my hairdresser yesterday, and she is pretty hard on people scanning and showing vaccine passes, but I was saying to her, what happens if someone comes in her shop, gets a positive result a few days or week later, she has to isolate for 10 days, is negative can work again...then it happens again a fortnight later, and again...she could potentially be off work for several weeks in a year, and might never actually test positive.
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@taniwharugby Yeah, it's insane. You see this often though. Someone has to design a process and they get fixated on one solution. Then when people point out potential issues, instead of ditching the idea and looking for a better one they just keep adding layers of complexity to compensate. You end up with the process equivalent of...
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I found this an interesting read.
Pity that the table of hospitalisation rates doesn't include under 5s as I had been doing some googling myself earlier to try and get some reality around this question and one of the US outcomes has been many more very young children in hospitals on ventilators with omicron compared to other variants. Theory is that, for one, they are unvaccinated and secondly their airways are smaller and Omicron settles in the airways
Anyway, this articles tries to answer the 'howmild is omicron?' question and is reasonably balanced. -
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I found this an interesting read.
Pity that the table of hospitalisation rates doesn't include under 5s as I had been doing some googling myself earlier to try and get some reality around this question and one of the US outcomes has been many more very young children in hospitals on ventilators with omicron compared to other variants. Theory is that, for one, they are unvaccinated and secondly their airways are smaller and Omicron settles in the airways
Anyway, this articles tries to answer the 'howmild is omicron?' question and is reasonably balanced.Quoted from the article.
I asked University of Otago Professor of Biochemistry Kurt Krause if he thought Omicron was mild.
“I’d probably not say ‘mild’,” he said. “It’s more in the realms of seasonal influenza (in the fully vaccinated) and that kills tens of thousands of people in the US annually and affects millions.”So, the flu basically.
And for this, we now compel vaccinations or you lose your job + destroy businesses.No thanks.
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@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I found this an interesting read.
Pity that the table of hospitalisation rates doesn't include under 5s as I had been doing some googling myself earlier to try and get some reality around this question and one of the US outcomes has been many more very young children in hospitals on ventilators with omicron compared to other variants. Theory is that, for one, they are unvaccinated and secondly their airways are smaller and Omicron settles in the airways
Anyway, this articles tries to answer the 'howmild is omicron?' question and is reasonably balanced.Quoted from the article.
I asked University of Otago Professor of Biochemistry Kurt Krause if he thought Omicron was mild.
“I’d probably not say ‘mild’,” he said. “It’s more in the realms of seasonal influenza (in the fully vaccinated) and that kills tens of thousands of people in the US annually and affects millions.”So, the flu basically.
And for this, we now compel vaccinations or you lose your job + destroy businesses.No thanks.
Taking that quote well out of the context of the article. Did you read and understand it all? It may not change your opinion as an individual but it does explain quite clearly the dichotomy of the situation.
I have been struggling to combine the two concepts myself. I thought that this explains things well.
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@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
So, the flu basically.
The highly contagious version of the flu, which is a nasty disease. It's not quite 'just the flu'
Yet it does invite the question: Is the Ministry of Health considering making flu jabs quasi-mandatory?
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@jc said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
So, the flu basically.
The highly contagious version of the flu, which is a nasty disease. It's not quite 'just the flu'
Yet it does invite the question: Is the Ministry of Health considering making flu jabs quasi-mandatory?
Doesn't the statement you quoted answer that question?
Impact similar for those that catch it, but rate of catching it much higher.
It's the combination of the two that is the argument for restrictions and vaccination. -
the point isn't "is omicron mild?" it's "is omicron mild in a vaccinated person?" and the overwhelming evidence is, yes.
So, with a very high vaccination level, do the various restrictions actually provide more "protection" than the varying levels of impact they have on other aspects of life?
People aren't saying "oh this is like the flu, lets just get on with it" people are saying "of this is like the flu, and damn near everyone has had a vaccination for it, lets get in with it"
The difference in the two arguments is massive, and to ignore that difference is almost dishonest
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
the point isn't "is omicron mild?" it's "is omicron mild in a vaccinated person?" and the overwhelming evidence is, yes.
So, with a very high vaccination level, do the various restrictions actually provide more "protection" than the varying levels of impact they have on other aspects of life?
People aren't saying "oh this is like the flu, lets just get on with it" people are saying "of this is like the flu, and damn near everyone has had a vaccination for it, lets get in with it"
The difference in the two arguments is massive, and to ignore that difference is almost dishonest
Did you read that article. What you have explained is completely correct and known but it is half of the picture.
NB:also the stats show that your position is possibly the one to follow once booster rates are high. We aren't there yet.
I agree that once 3rd doses are up the position needs re-visiting. -
i did. i read it when it came out over 2 weeks ago. i read a few more too.
Just keep on supporting that government position no matter what is stuck in front of you. At least you've been consistent.
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
your position is possibly the one to follow once booster rates are high. We aren't there yet.
havent we been down this road before?
Wait until we hit 90% of eligible vaccinated...
will we be looking at a 4th jab for winter?
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The argument about kids is misleading too - it's true that Omicron settles higher, leading to more Croup, but the overwhelming factor is that there are just a huge number of cases. This is a good article that highlights the danger, then eventually points out that actually it is the denominator effect.
Thus far, there are no signs that the cases caused by Omicron are more severe.
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I agree that once 3rd doses are up the position needs re-visiting.
Yeah...keep pushing it out.
After all, as you said, you work in the public service, what do you care?What about when those boosters wear off and Omicron makes a minor resurgence?
Shall we have more restrictions to "reflect, assess, study contemplate, meditate, delay........."?So sick of academic types with no common sense.
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
i did. i read it when it came out over 2 weeks ago. i read a few more too.
Just keep on supporting that government position no matter what is stuck in front of you. At least you've been consistent.
I have actually been all over the shop on this question and the current position.
What has been consistent is posters that dislike this govt simply because they dislike the left will attack everything they do.
At least I try to understand why they do what they do and have made plenty of criticisms of their actions on here. -
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I agree that once 3rd doses are up the position needs re-visiting.
Yeah...keep pushing it out.
After all, as you said, you work in the public service, what do you care?What about when those boosters wear off and Omicron makes a minor resurgence?
Shall we have more restrictions to "reflect, assess, study contemplate, meditate, delay........."?So sick of academic types with no common sense.
Don't confuse academics with facts. The efficacy of vaccines wears off. Fact.
Where has the govt said that restrictions are for "reflect, assess, study contemplate, meditate, delay........."?
They have stated their reasons (not very clearly IMO) and it is still about protecting people as a whole (children, elderly, unvaccinated, undervaccinated etc)Form an argument about that rather than making shit up.
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Anyone suggesting 3 jabs should be the new requirement to be considered vaccinated can fuck right off
Funny how the consensus opinion on here regarding anti-vaxxers pre-covid was all 'listen to the science you morons'.
Now it's "I'm an expert, leave me alone"