NZ First Five Crisis
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@Dan54 said in NZ First Five Crisis:
@Machpants said in NZ First Five Crisis:
@Dan54 said in NZ First Five Crisis:
@Crazy-Horse Genuinely wonder if there not an argument for Stevenson to be looked at , although I have tended to never be a huge fan, I think hos boot etc would strengthen us at 15?
Watch the game vs Northalnd on Saturday and you will quickly dismiss teh idea of Stevenson being in black
Yep nate, said same to my Mrs, I always thought he would make a few cock ups that were costly, but had hoped he got over them. But certainly reminded me in that game!
I also watched outside what the camera would've been, no effort and sulky attitude the whole time once they were under the pump
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A shame as Stevenson has the talent if not the application.
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@frugby there's seems to be too many road blocks to players playing. If Super Rugby doesn't expand with top teir teams to give more game time then I would like to see a development grade, just to keep these guys playing, ready for a step up to too SR or Tests.
Too me guys like Sullivan, Burke, Godfrey, have been delayed to develop first five ability with limited Game time.
Also reduce the ABs squad and put those in the ABXV, really get that level going against other countries. -
It is alarming how many tens are simply not getting enough game time at Super level and simply being snapped up by clubs in the Northern Hemisphere. Massive issue, we need to be bringing some of this offshore talent home. Richie Mo is the most extreme example, the three mention by Trig is a real concern.
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@BorderJB said in NZ First Five Crisis:
Godfrey
Are you a @Canes4life multi?
Godfrey looked bloody average at 10 when he played there this year, fullback is his current best position. The Canes need to put him in their development team as a 10 to get him more experience.
@Trig None of those 10s have looked AB level, even Ioane who played for the ABs. Of the 3 only Burke appears a real loss outside of depth as someone who could develop into a test 10. Morgan was dross and since making the ABs Ioane has just got shitter and shitter.
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@Nepia said in NZ First Five Crisis:
@BorderJB said in NZ First Five Crisis:
Godfrey
Are you a @Canes4life multi?
Godfrey looked bloody average at 10 when he played there this year, fullback is his current best position. The Canes need to put him in their development team as a 10 to get him more experience.
@Trig None of those 10s have looked AB level, even Ioane who played for the ABs. Of the 3 only Burke appears a real loss outside of depth as someone who could develop into a test 10. Morgan was dross and since making the ABs Ioane has just got shitter and shitter.
I'm more concerned about the development of the 10s that stay. No one apart from Plummer could be considered an orthodox 10. Unorthodox is the NZ orthodoxy right now
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@Nepia said in NZ First Five Crisis:
None of those 10s have looked AB level, even Ioane who played for the ABs.
I agree. If all three were still playing NPC in NZ currently Plummer would still be ahead of them in ABs conversations. However, they will look set to get plenty of game time as their teams first 5s and I don't think it'll be long before Burke puts his Scottish or English passports to use because of this.
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@canefan said in NZ First Five Crisis:
@Nepia said in NZ First Five Crisis:
@BorderJB said in NZ First Five Crisis:
Godfrey
Are you a @Canes4life multi?
Godfrey looked bloody average at 10 when he played there this year, fullback is his current best position. The Canes need to put him in their development team as a 10 to get him more experience.
@Trig None of those 10s have looked AB level, even Ioane who played for the ABs. Of the 3 only Burke appears a real loss outside of depth as someone who could develop into a test 10. Morgan was dross and since making the ABs Ioane has just got shitter and shitter.
I'm more concerned about the development of the 10s that stay. No one apart from Plummer could be considered an orthodox 10. Unorthodox is the NZ orthodoxy right now
Of those one's who've left only Burke seems orthodox. McClutchie is fairly orthodox and he can't get a run at the Canes, so maybe you're right.
Even if Mo was still here we'd have two unorthodox 10s to complain about and Plummer likely wouldn't get a look in.
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@Trig said in NZ First Five Crisis:
@Nepia said in NZ First Five Crisis:
None of those 10s have looked AB level, even Ioane who played for the ABs.
I agree. If all three were still playing NPC in NZ currently Plummer would still be ahead of them in ABs conversations. However, they will look set to get plenty of game time as their teams first 5s and I don't think it'll be long before Burke puts his Scottish or English passports to use because of this.
Considering Burke is from the Crusaders maybe he got the word from Razor that he was unlikely to get a shot? Seems a weird time for him to go otherwise.
Why don't the Crusaders 10s like Razor, they both ran away from him.
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@Nepia Fox had massive mental fortitude and intelligence, could land the ball on a dime.
Only thing missing top end speed. -
@BerniesCorner said in NZ First Five Crisis:
@Nepia Fox had massive mental fortitude and intelligence, could land the ball on a dime.
Only thing missing top end speed.Laser like accuracy when kicking from goal too
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@Nepia said in NZ First Five Crisis:
McClutchie is fairly orthodox and he can't get a run at the Canes, so maybe you're right.
A shame as McClutchie is a great name for an international 10.
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@BerniesCorner said in NZ First Five Crisis:
@Nepia Fox had massive mental fortitude and intelligence, could land the ball on a dime.
Only thing missing top end speed.and um tackling. And physicality. And elusiveness. And agility. But apart from that, all good!
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@Nepia haha nah nah, I was just using them as examples, I guess Ruben Love would be another as he could have gone 10 instead of 15 in another team. But had Godfrey had playing time in a B team his only game in the top level may not have been bad.
We just need them as a pocket 10 not Fullback 10. -
@frugby said in NZ First Five Crisis:
RE-OPENS THREAD
I can't believe I'm saying this but Plummer just has to have a crack. DMac is not the one.
If Plummer, at 26, is "the one", I'll eat my hat. I'm not unhappy that Plummer is in the squad, because he would be the next best, but that's it. There's no upward path from where he is now. We've all seen him play, and it's solid.
Every good first-five (or halfback for that matter) gets to their peak young. Usually very young. I remember watching Dan Carter, Aaron Cruden and DMc all standing out at age 21.
So when we get a decent replacement for DMc, it will be some tyro, barely out of the Under 20s. Like all the other decent first-fives (and halfbacks) we've had. Mo'unga took a long time to crack the ABs, relatively, and he was in the squad at 23.
The idea that we are going to spend a couple of years displacing DMc so a guy who is never going to be close to as good as him can get game time is risible.
The guy Plummer reminds me of is Stephen Donald. Who looked really good at SR level, but also took a long time to get international duty, because that was his level -- and really only played when multiple injuries struck.
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@Chester-Draws said in NZ First Five Crisis:
@frugby said in NZ First Five Crisis:
RE-OPENS THREAD
I can't believe I'm saying this but Plummer just has to have a crack. DMac is not the one.
If Plummer, at 26, is "the one", I'll eat my hat. I'm not unhappy that Plummer is in the squad, because he would be the next best, but that's it. There's no upward path from where he is now. We've all seen him play, and it's solid.
Every good first-five (or halfback for that matter) gets to their peak young. Usually very young. I remember watching Dan Carter, Aaron Cruden and DMc all standing out at age 21.
So when we get a decent replacement for DMc, it will be some tyro, barely out of the Under 20s. Like all the other decent first-fives (and halfbacks) we've had. Mo'unga took a long time to crack the ABs, relatively, and he was in the squad at 23.
The idea that we are going to spend a couple of years displacing DMc so a guy who is never going to be any better than him can get game time is risible.
The guy Plummer reminds me of is Stephen Donald. Who looked really good at SR level, but also took a long time to get international duty, because that was his level -- and really only played when multiple injuries struck.
You may be right about Plummer. But wouldn't you take the chance just in case he can be good, and start him for a half in a dead rubber vs Aussie on Saturday?
