-
@dogmeat said in Climate Change:
nothing constructive to debunk the notion of climate change through global warming.
MAN MADE climate change due to CO2 (or carbon pollution if you prefer this term)
It's funny how the man made is almost always left out now. Because no one disputes that the climate changes over time. But the big question is what its due to. Natural factors like changes in the sun's activity. Or CO2 that makes up a fraction of the atmosphere
And secondly whether it's worth changing our way of life (like 15-minute cities) and turning farm land into carbon sinks (meaning less food) and making people eat bugs etc. and spending trillions and trillions of dollars to transition to a new energy source.
And it's more than bit embarrassing. These clowns are leading the West of a cliff face.
-
@Winger yeah maybe but my point stands the guy was an ass clown that made no valid point at all.
As for manmade climate change. CO2 has increased since the industrial revolution. Causality or coincidence. You takes your pick and drink your medicine.
-
i also come from a certain position where....i dont care if humans have solely caused it...more interested if some effort from humans can help offset it regardless of whats caused it...because rising temps and water levels aint good for the human race
the other thing i am interested in is things like the pollution...improved air and water quality is is enough reason for me to want to stop spewing smoke into the air or stop clearing forests
-
@Kiwiwomble said in Climate Change:
i also come from a certain position where....i dont care if humans have solely caused it...more interested if some effort from humans can help offset it regardless of whats caused it...because rising temps and water levels aint good for the human race
the other thing i am interested in is things like the pollution...improved air and water quality is is enough reason for me to want to stop spewing smoke into the air or stop clearing forests
Rising temperatures is much better than falling temperatures. Falling results in less food production and starving people
I dont care etc. Our response to rising or falling temperatures will be quite different if it's caused by the sun or more cows farting and burping etc.
CO2 isn't pollution. It's plant food. And humans can survive as well at say 500ppm as 400ppm. In fact, most homes and building have much higher CO2 level
Agree with clearing forests. But if we are really concerned about pollution then that's where we should focus our attention. Not at CO2
-
@dogmeat said in Climate Change:
@Winger No one denies that earths climate changes over time. It is the speed of the current change that is unprecedented.
Are you sure? We've had fairly consistent temperatures for many years. Yet when we came out of the last ice age it, according to some experts, happened fairly quickly.
-
@Winger said in Climate Change:
@Kiwiwomble said in Climate Change:
i also come from a certain position where....i dont care if humans have solely caused it...more interested if some effort from humans can help offset it regardless of whats caused it...because rising temps and water levels aint good for the human race
the other thing i am interested in is things like the pollution...improved air and water quality is is enough reason for me to want to stop spewing smoke into the air or stop clearing forests
Rising temperatures is much better than falling temperatures. Falling results in less food production and starving people
i'll admit im not an expert but i feel that's overly simplistic, even anecdotally i see my veggie garden wilt/burn on hot day, more irrigation or watering is needed...deserts not know for their forests
suggesting its better than falling temps also feels like a bit of a straw man...we dont have falling temps and i havent heard anyone suggesting trying to get it any colder than we've seen in recent history...so not sure how thats any justification for accepting temps rising
for a second, lets concede CO2 itself isn't a pollutant...surely you can see the smoke that it is often carried on IS polluting the air...like you can smell...and see that it is...so yeah, sure if we can work out how to burn coal and ONLY expel CO2 great....but im not sure thats possible
@Winger said in Climate Change:
@dogmeat said in Climate Change:
@Winger No one denies that earths climate changes over time. It is the speed of the current change that is unprecedented.
Are you sure? We've had fairly consistent temperatures for many years.
have we? 2sec google gave me loads of very similar images
-
We don't have consistent temperatures, we have rapid heating. Any rapid change is not good for food production, because it means your crops and animals are in the wrong place.
Right now Aussie meat prices are going to start dropping because the farmers there are going to flood the market by de-stocking in a hurry because of El Nino. It's going to be warmer and drier. That's not necessarily climate change related, but it illustrates the point that 'warmer is better' is bullshit. Some cheap meat right now, lower output for the next few years. -
@Winger said in Climate Change:
Rising temperatures is much better than falling temperatures. Falling results in less food production and starving people
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/12/climate-change-extreme-weather-food-shortages-rise-prices/
"This is particularly clear in the case of barley, maize, millet, pulses, rice and wheat. It seems that the countries most at risk of food shortages are also worst affected by rising temperature. This seems to bear out the finding from the world’s premier climate science advisers, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), that the higher average global temperatures and more extreme weather events associated with climate change will reduce the reliability of food production. The latest IPCC report also supports these conclusions.
Another change noted by the IPCC is how rising heat and rainfall associated with climate change is increasingly degrading land, making soil less productive. This is due to the loss of soil nutrients and organic matter and has negative effects on crop yields. In addition, accelerating rises in sea levels will compound these negative impacts by increasing saltwater intrusions and permanently flooding crop land."
-
@Winger said in Climate Change:
CO2 isn't pollution. It's plant food. And humans can survive as well at say 500ppm as 400ppm. In fact, most homes and building have much higher CO2 level
-
@reprobate said in Climate Change:
We don't have consistent temperatures, we have rapid heating. Any rapid change is not good for food production, because it means your crops and animals are in the wrong place.
Right now Aussie meat prices are going to start dropping because the farmers there are going to flood the market by de-stocking in a hurry because of El NinoRapid heating. Are you sure? Certainly not where I have lived in the last 20 years. And El Nina. Why bring this up?
-
There have been scare stories all my life. The first I can remember is Ozone related. And nuclear war. All from so-called experts. And what happened ... nothing
Snow was all going to melt and no skiing. Nope
Gore and his 5 years warning. NoI know now it's all crap. the biggest danger is from the climate measures destroying the economy. Or the food supply.
-
@Kiwiwomble said in Climate Change:
@Winger said in Climate Change:
@Kiwiwomble said in Climate Change:
i also come from a certain position where....i dont care if humans have solely caused it...more interested if some effort from humans can help offset it regardless of whats caused it...because rising temps and water levels aint good for the human race
the other thing i am interested in is things like the pollution...improved air and water quality is is enough reason for me to want to stop spewing smoke into the air or stop clearing forests
Rising temperatures is much better than falling temperatures. Falling results in less food production and starving people
i'll admit im not an expert but i feel that's overly simplistic, even anecdotally i see my veggie garden wilt/burn on hot day, more irrigation or watering is needed...deserts not know for their forests
suggesting its better than falling temps also feels like a bit of a straw man...we dont have falling temps and i havent heard anyone suggesting trying to get it any colder than we've seen in recent history...so not sure how thats any justification for accepting temps rising
for a second, lets concede CO2 itself isn't a pollutant...surely you can see the smoke that it is often carried on IS polluting the air...like you can smell...and see that it is...so yeah, sure if we can work out how to burn coal and ONLY expel CO2 great....but im not sure thats possible
@Winger said in Climate Change:
@dogmeat said in Climate Change:
@Winger No one denies that earths climate changes over time. It is the speed of the current change that is unprecedented.
Are you sure? We've had fairly consistent temperatures for many years.
have we? 2sec google gave me loads of very similar images
-
What am I missing? That shows an obvious upward trend over the last 40 years let alone before that
-
@Winger said in Climate Change:
There have been scare stories all my life. The first I can remember is Ozone related. And nuclear war. All from so-called experts. And what happened ... nothing
Snow was all going to melt and no skiing. Nope
Gore and his 5 years warning. NoI know now it's all crap. the biggest danger is from the climate measures destroying the economy. Or the food supply.
Check out the glaciers around the world. Check out rising sea levels.
-
@Winger said in Climate Change:
There have been scare stories all my life. The first I can remember is Ozone related. And nuclear war. All from so-called experts. And what happened ... nothing
Snow was all going to melt and no skiing. Nope
Gore and his 5 years warning. NoI know now it's all crap. the biggest danger is from the climate measures destroying the economy. Or the food supply.
…I mean…the ozone started repairing itself because the world banned cfc’s…if anything it kind of proves doing something can have a positive impact…
-
@Kiwiwomble said in Climate Change:
@Winger said in Climate Change:
There have been scare stories all my life. The first I can remember is Ozone related. And nuclear war. All from so-called experts. And what happened ... nothing
Snow was all going to melt and no skiing. Nope
Gore and his 5 years warning. NoI know now it's all crap. the biggest danger is from the climate measures destroying the economy. Or the food supply.
…I mean…the ozone started repairing itself because the world banned cfc’s…if anything it kind of proves doing something can have a positive impact…
Thats the story. Maybe CFCs weren't really going to destroy the planet. Where 500 MPH solar winds would destroy all plant life on the earth because of Ozone (or a lack of it) caused by (sinful) humans. No different to the end of world nonsense spouted out by various religious leaders.
Just like maybe a tiny increase in CO2 isn't going to destroy the planet. And we don't need to destroy the economy and alter our way of living because of this
And just maybe cows farting and burping isn't cause for concern.
-
@Kiwiwomble said in Climate Change:
What am I missing? That shows an obvious upward trend over the last 40 years let alone before that
No one disputes that the climate changes over time. And that glaciers reduce and expand
But changes of less than 1 degree over 40 years isn't significant. (A sudden collapse into another ice age would be.)
It's the reason for the change. Is it mainly due to changes in the sun? Like the suns magnetic poles changing every 15 years compared to 40-50 years. Or a tiny increase in CO2. My view is its due to the sun. Not a 100 PPM increase in CO2
And BTW. CO2 increases naturally during warming periods. That we are thankfully currently in (I don't like the cold)
-
@Winger said in Climate Change:
But changes of less than 1 degree over 40 years isn't significant
Scientific consensus says you couldn't be more wrong.
Sure you can trot out some scientists who take a contrary view but they are in a massive minority.
Frankly pretty much all the examples you trot out are easily debunked as @Kiwiwomble pointed out even the graph you posted yourself belies your argument.
As for the ice ages ending quickly. You're right they did. In geological terms. Still took thousands of years not the unprecedented warming that we have had over the last couple of centuries.
If a rise of 1 degree is a mere trifle why does the science suggest 1.5 degrees is pretty much the we are fucked tipping point?
Climate Change