Two squads for the away legs
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Was going to try and name two squads ... but too hard for my little brain.
But think a few like Sammy W, maybe Reado, Cane may get a week off.
Also reckon Squire will miss BA (head), Taylor will start in BA and bench in CT, Crotty may have a rest, and maybe Laumape has a crack at playing SBW's role in BA.
Wings may be rotated and Naholo gets a crack.
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I'd like to see Naholo Laumape and havili get a go vs Argentina.
Throw in Asafo Aumua for good measure.
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A little unconventional but I would be tempted to send Read and younger side to Argentina, with most veterans going to RSA under Cane.
We've played unpredictably poor anytime we have tried to half-ass a team like SA away in 2011, the Samoa test, Chicago last year... I hope they have learned from it.
Resting our three best line out options at once seems like a recipe for disaster.
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The squad to travel to Argentina is:
Forwards: Wyatt Crockett, Kane Hames, Nepo Laulala, Jeffery Toomaga Allen, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Dane Coles, Codie Taylor, Nathan Harris, Scott Barrett, Luke Romano, Patrick Tuipulotu, Vaea Fifita, Jerome Kaino, Kieran Read (captain), Ardie Savea and Matt Todd.Backs: Tawera Kerr-Barlow, TJ Perenara, Aaron Smith, Lima Sopoaga, Anton Lienert-Brown, Ngani Laumape, Sonny Bill Williams, Rieko Ioane, David Havili, Damian McKenzie, Nehe Milner-Skudder and Waisake Naholo
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@rotated said in Two squads for the away legs:
Resting our three best line out options at once seems like a recipe for disaster.
Read is our best and most prolific line out option, so we're not resting our best three.
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@mimic said in Two squads for the away legs:
The squad to travel to Argentina is:
Forwards: Wyatt Crockett, Kane Hames, Nepo Laulala, Jeffery Toomaga Allen, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Dane Coles, Codie Taylor, Nathan Harris, Scott Barrett, Luke Romano, Patrick Tuipulotu, Vaea Fifita, Jerome Kaino, Kieran Read (captain), Ardie Savea and Matt Todd.Backs: Tawera Kerr-Barlow, TJ Perenara, Aaron Smith, Lima Sopoaga, Anton Lienert-Brown, Ngani Laumape, Sonny Bill Williams, Rieko Ioane, David Havili, Damian McKenzie, Nehe Milner-Skudder and Waisake Naholo
An interesting juggling act here. Don't want to disrupt the team too much on an away leg, but need to rest a few for the final match. I think they'll go with
Hames, Taylor, Ofa, Romano, Barrett, Kaino, Savea, Read, Perenara, Sopoaga, Ioane, Laumape, ALB, Naholo, Havili
Harris, Crockett, JTA, Fifita, Todd, TKB, DMac, SBW
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@Cantab79 said in Two squads for the away legs:
@rotated said in Two squads for the away legs:
Resting our three best line out options at once seems like a recipe for disaster.
Read is our best and most prolific line out option, so we're not resting our best three.
And when Barrett came on to replace Squire on Saturday, they threw to him a bit also.
Have Read and Kaino with two locks and we should be fine.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Two squads for the away legs:
@mimic said in Two squads for the away legs:
The squad to travel to Argentina is:
Forwards: Wyatt Crockett, Kane Hames, Nepo Laulala, Jeffery Toomaga Allen, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Dane Coles, Codie Taylor, Nathan Harris, Scott Barrett, Luke Romano, Patrick Tuipulotu, Vaea Fifita, Jerome Kaino, Kieran Read (captain), Ardie Savea and Matt Todd.Backs: Tawera Kerr-Barlow, TJ Perenara, Aaron Smith, Lima Sopoaga, Anton Lienert-Brown, Ngani Laumape, Sonny Bill Williams, Rieko Ioane, David Havili, Damian McKenzie, Nehe Milner-Skudder and Waisake Naholo
An interesting juggling act here. Don't want to disrupt the team too much on an away leg, but need to rest a few for the final match. I think they'll go with
Hames, Taylor, Ofa, Romano, Barrett, Kaino, Savea, Read, Perenara, Sopoaga, Ioane, Laumape, ALB, Naholo, Havili
Harris, Crockett, JTA, Fifita, Todd, TKB, DMac, SBW
Why rest Coles? He has had about 3 games in 6 months. Would also be surprised if SBW was rested given all the other changes and would think Todd will start ahead of Savea as we have seen before.
Probably the same with Dmac, if they are going to give Havili gametime it would probably be better with the "top" team rather than throwing him in with a weaker team around him. However im not sure i see the point in playing Havili. He is well down the pecking order. If he is taken on the eoyt that is probably the time for him to debut.
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@pukunui said in Two squads for the away legs:
Why rest Coles? He has had about 3 games in 6 months.
I suspect it is partly with an eye to the EOYT, and partly to keep development of Codie Taylor.
These coaches have a good habit of causing players to improve dramatically after spending time in the environment. That's the real sign of good coaching.
Edit: examples are Dane Coles and more recently Ofa T. I suppose you can put Liam Squire in there, along with a bit of Malaki Fekitoa.
Counterexamples: Julian Savea
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@nzzp said in Two squads for the away legs:
@pukunui said in Two squads for the away legs:
Why rest Coles? He has had about 3 games in 6 months.
I suspect it is partly with an eye to the EOYT, and partly to keep development of Codie Taylor.
These coaches have a good habit of causing players to improve dramatically after spending time in the environment. That's the real sign of good coaching.
Edit: examples are Dane Coles and more recently Ofa T. I suppose you can put Liam Squire in there, along with a bit of Malaki Fekitoa.
Counterexamples: Julian Savea
But he is still travelling to Argentina. My point was questioning the liklihood of them taking him there then having Taylor start with Harris on the bench. If they were saving him for the eoyt surely he would be in the group that isn't traveling to Argentina.
If anything its Taylor who needs a rest given his workload for the Crusaders and ABs this year.
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@nzzp fekitoa i reckon joseph and whoever else at the highlanders - that was where his big improvement came. not so much at AB level, and not so much after the coaching set-up down south changed.
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@reprobate said in Two squads for the away legs:
@nzzp fekitoa i reckon joseph and whoever else at the highlanders - that was where his big improvement came. not so much at AB level, and not so much after the coaching set-up down south changed.
yeah, that's why I said 'a bit' of Fekitoa. His big improvement came when Auckland dropped him - he said that himself, his attitude was rubbish until he got dropped and headed south.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Two squads for the away legs:
@mimic said in Two squads for the away legs:
The squad to travel to Argentina is:
Forwards: Wyatt Crockett, Kane Hames, Nepo Laulala, Jeffery Toomaga Allen, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Dane Coles, Codie Taylor, Nathan Harris, Scott Barrett, Luke Romano, Patrick Tuipulotu, Vaea Fifita, Jerome Kaino, Kieran Read (captain), Ardie Savea and Matt Todd.Backs: Tawera Kerr-Barlow, TJ Perenara, Aaron Smith, Lima Sopoaga, Anton Lienert-Brown, Ngani Laumape, Sonny Bill Williams, Rieko Ioane, David Havili, Damian McKenzie, Nehe Milner-Skudder and Waisake Naholo
An interesting juggling act here. Don't want to disrupt the team too much on an away leg, but need to rest a few for the final match. I think they'll go with
Hames, Taylor, Ofa, Romano, Barrett, Kaino, Savea, Read, Perenara, Sopoaga, Ioane, Laumape, ALB, Naholo, Havili
Harris, Crockett, JTA, Fifita, Todd, TKB, DMac, SBW
I think a fair bit different, for this one....
Hames, Coles, Laulala, Barrett, Romano, Kaino, Todd, Read, Perenara, Sopoaga, SBW, Lienert-Brown, Ioane, NMS, McKenzie
Crockett, Taylor, Ofa, Tuipolotou, Fifita, TKB, Laumape, Havili
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@nzzp Speaking of improvement, interesting to see Patrick Tuipulotu added to the squad given Auckland's poor form.
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@mimic said in Two squads for the away legs:
The squad to travel to Argentina is:
Forwards: Wyatt Crockett, Kane Hames, Nepo Laulala, Jeffery Toomaga Allen, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Dane Coles, Codie Taylor, Nathan Harris, Scott Barrett, Luke Romano, Patrick Tuipulotu, Vaea Fifita, Jerome Kaino, Kieran Read (captain), Ardie Savea and Matt Todd.Backs: Tawera Kerr-Barlow, TJ Perenara, Aaron Smith, Lima Sopoaga, Anton Lienert-Brown, Ngani Laumape, Sonny Bill Williams, Rieko Ioane, David Havili, Damian McKenzie, Nehe Milner-Skudder and Waisake Naholo
So what will be the squad to travel to SA ?
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@cgrant Will be announced after the Pumas game. Only thing that has been said is that the six players that don't travel to Argentina, will arrive in SA ahead of the rest of the squad.
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@Mojomania said in Two squads for the away legs:
@nzzp Speaking of improvement, interesting to see Patrick Tuipulotu added to the squad given Auckland's poor form.
Tuipulotu has been consistently Auckland's best player i'd say. Big improvement from his Super Rugby form. Auckland's problems aren't on him.
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Not sure why Liam Napier wrote in that article that there will be two separate squads. The All Blacks announcement of the squad for the test in Argentina (posted in the Pumas v All Blacks thread), doesn't say that at all. It's just a travelling squad for Argentina that doesn't include 6 important players. Some of the squad going to Argentina will travel home after the Pumas test, while the rest joins the 6 in SA.
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@pukunui said in Two squads for the away legs:
@nzzp said in Two squads for the away legs:
@pukunui said in Two squads for the away legs:
Why rest Coles? He has had about 3 games in 6 months.
I suspect it is partly with an eye to the EOYT, and partly to keep development of Codie Taylor.
These coaches have a good habit of causing players to improve dramatically after spending time in the environment. That's the real sign of good coaching.
Edit: examples are Dane Coles and more recently Ofa T. I suppose you can put Liam Squire in there, along with a bit of Malaki Fekitoa.
Counterexamples: Julian Savea
But he is still travelling to Argentina. My point was questioning the liklihood of them taking him there then having Taylor start with Harris on the bench. If they were saving him for the eoyt surely he would be in the group that isn't traveling to Argentina.
If anything its Taylor who needs a rest given his workload for the Crusaders and ABs this year.
Coles is travelling because they need to travel with 3 hookers because it's a specialised position.
Coles to start vs the Boks in Saffaland
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@Chris-B. said in Two squads for the away legs:
@ACT-Crusader said in Two squads for the away legs:
@mimic said in Two squads for the away legs:
The squad to travel to Argentina is:
Forwards: Wyatt Crockett, Kane Hames, Nepo Laulala, Jeffery Toomaga Allen, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Dane Coles, Codie Taylor, Nathan Harris, Scott Barrett, Luke Romano, Patrick Tuipulotu, Vaea Fifita, Jerome Kaino, Kieran Read (captain), Ardie Savea and Matt Todd.Backs: Tawera Kerr-Barlow, TJ Perenara, Aaron Smith, Lima Sopoaga, Anton Lienert-Brown, Ngani Laumape, Sonny Bill Williams, Rieko Ioane, David Havili, Damian McKenzie, Nehe Milner-Skudder and Waisake Naholo
An interesting juggling act here. Don't want to disrupt the team too much on an away leg, but need to rest a few for the final match. I think they'll go with
Hames, Taylor, Ofa, Romano, Barrett, Kaino, Savea, Read, Perenara, Sopoaga, Ioane, Laumape, ALB, Naholo, Havili
Harris, Crockett, JTA, Fifita, Todd, TKB, DMac, SBW
I think a fair bit different, for this one....
Hames, Coles, Laulala, Barrett, Romano, Kaino, Todd, Read, Perenara, Sopoaga, SBW, Lienert-Brown, Ioane, NMS, McKenzie
Crockett, Taylor, Ofa, Tuipolotou, Fifita, TKB, Laumape, Havili
Early doors, and injury may make some decisions.
They may go with Chiefs front row to make things easier to gel against Pumas scrum. Taylor needs some rest so Coles on bench. Taking JTA all that way suggests he'll get some gametime. I imagine they'll want Fifita to get a run, so perhaps Savea also has a breather.
In backs, great to see Lima start. Would like to see SBW and ALB run on, to see combo. Rest for Nugget. TKB bench. Laumape a chance to start, but in 23. Rieko gets spell, to give Naholo his run. And I'm guessing Havilli may get a start, although that might be a change too far.
Hames, Harris, Laulala, Barrett, Romano, Kaino, Todd, Read, Perenara, Sopoaga, SBW, Lienert-Brown, Naholo, NMS, McKenzie
Crockett, Coles, JTA, Tuipolotou, Fifita, TKB, Laumape, Havili
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I don't think that the decisions on which players rest is to do with amount of games played, it is more likely based on which players that the most physical wear and tear and would otherwise need a break on the EOYT.
In the last couple of seasons we have done (or had to do) the player management during the EOYT after players have had to do the arduous travel. I think it is a good option to do it beforehand.
I can certainly imagine that the likes of SW and BBBR suffer the most having to play/fly/play/fly/play/fly circling the globe. -
@Mojomania said in Two squads for the away legs:
@nzzp Speaking of improvement, interesting to see Patrick Tuipulotu added to the squad given Auckland's poor form.
Welcome back. Will be interesting how Auckland go with PT and Kaino missing the weekend the ABs tour Argentina
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Woops misread your post. Agreed.
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@pakman I tend to think they've just taken JTA as injury cover and won't necessarily cap him just for the sake of it - after all, Ofa's racked up plenty of air miles in his time, without accumulating a lot of game time.
In fact, the same argument possibly applies to Havili - and they could easily sit Naholo on the bench. The only thing that makes me think they might put David on the bench is that Dmac is going to have to move to 1st five if Sopoaga gets injured and that's a mighty big risk - so probably best to have a specialist fullback on the bench - even if he's uncapped - so that you're not rolling the dice in too many places.
Basically, I think they'll play what they think is their strongest team. So they're going to have a hooker, a prop and a halfback on the bench. The weakest options - (Harris, JTA, TKB) - plus two others.
And for some reason, when I picked my team I didn't register Aaron Smith in the squad - so he's starting and TJ moves to the bench.
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If it were me, I'd put some firepower on the bench, so that it's not 15 younguns to turn to if things go a bit pear-shaped. I agree that it's probably not needed to give JTA time though (although, he's already been capped, so it's a return, which makes it more likely).
So, perhaps bench of Crockett, Taylor, Ofa, Tuipulotu, Savea, TJP, Havili, Laumape
With
Hames, Harris, Laulala, Barrett, Romano, Kaino, Todd, Read, Smith, Sops, Ioane, SBW, ALB, NMS, McKenzie
Startin.
They could switch the front rows as well if they want. Could also give Smith a rest if required.
I left out Naholo and Fifita, which doesn't make much sense. Would be a great game to give him at least a bench role, in which case Either Todd or Savea starts and the other carries the tee.
If they plan to give McKenzie time at 10, or if Sops gets injured, they'll need fullback cover. I don't see NMS as that, so either way, I see Havili getting some time in this game. I'd probably try him off the bench, and see whether or to move McKenzie to 10, wing, or off.
TKB getting a bench role might also suggest that they'll give Dmac 10 time.
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@gt12 said in Two squads for the away legs:
If it were me, I'd put some firepower on the bench, so that it's not 15 younguns to turn to if things go a bit pear-shaped. I agree that it's probably not needed to give JTA time though (although, he's already been capped, so it's a return, which makes it more likely).
So, perhaps bench of Crockett, Taylor, Ofa, Tuipulotu, Savea, TJP, Havili, Laumape
With
Hames, Harris, Laulala, Barrett, Romano, Kaino, Todd, Read, Smith, Sops, Ioane, SBW, ALB, NMS, McKenzie
Startin.
They could switch the front rows as well if they want. Could also give Smith a rest if required.
I left out Naholo and Fifita, which doesn't make much sense. Would be a great game to give him at least a bench role, in which case Either Todd or Savea starts and the other carries the tee.
If they plan to give McKenzie time at 10, or if Sops gets injured, they'll need fullback cover. I don't see NMS as that, so either way, I see Havili getting some time in this game. I'd probably try him off the bench, and see whether or to move McKenzie to 10, wing, or off.
TKB getting a bench role might also suggest that they'll give Dmac 10 time.
Not a bad plan although I suspect there may be a plan to sub Reado off at 60mins. Fifita on bench with JK moving to 8.
Not sure DMac is ready for 10 except in emergencies but you never know. They seem intent on giving him as many minutes as possible to work out how test rugby is different and how he can work his natural instincts into an effective role. You can see him game by game changing the way he is playing. He was stopping himself from taking a run quite a few times the other day so is now working out his decision making. Showed good signs vision wise with some of his kicking from hand but also looked to be shovelling the ball on quite a bit when he may have had a run while running when he should have kicked/passed. He will get there and minutes on the field is what will help him. -
@mimic said in Two squads for the away legs:
Forwards: Wyatt Crockett, Kane Hames, Nepo Laulala, Jeffery Toomaga Allen, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Dane Coles, Codie Taylor, Nathan Harris, Scott Barrett, Luke Romano, Patrick Tuipulotu, Vaea Fifita, Jerome Kaino, Kieran Read (captain), Ardie Savea and Matt Todd.
Backs: Tawera Kerr-Barlow, TJ Perenara, Aaron Smith, Lima Sopoaga, Anton Lienert-Brown, Ngani Laumape, Sonny Bill Williams, Rieko Ioane, David Havili, Damian McKenzie, Nehe Milner-Skudder and Waisake Naholoi would go for:
hames coles lala
barrett romero
kaino read todd
smith sopoaga
laumape ALB
reiko mackenzie naholobench: crockett, ofa, harris, big pat, fifita, perenara, sbw, havili
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@gt12 I put "on the bench" inadvertently - what I really meant was "miss out on the bench". So five miss out of which, for me, it's Harris, JTA, TKB - plus a loosie and an outside back Savea or Fifita and Havili or (perhaps) Naholo.
