Super Rugby Women's Competition
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@stargazer said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@bovidae A name including the word Pounamu (as in 'Te Wai Pounamu') would be so much nicer. Then you have the team colour sorted, too.
blue?
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@nzzp said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@stargazer said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@bovidae A name including the word Pounamu (as in 'Te Wai Pounamu') would be so much nicer. Then you have the team colour sorted, too.
blue?
with yellow streaks in it yeah
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@stargazer said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@nzzp Either this is a wind-up or you don't know what pounamu is. It's definitely not blue! Unless you're colour blind.
sorry, tongue very firmly in cheek. It is the internet after all
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@stargazer said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
This seems to be the preferred format for the women's SRA:
Robinson said a potential professional women’s rugby competition would likely feature a maximum of four teams, represented by the three current North Island Super Rugby clubs and a combined one from the South Island.
One South Island team makes total sense, if you look at the FPC provinces in each SR catchment, with Premiership teams (at the end of the 2019 season) in bold, and taking into account the improvement of Northland and Manawatu in 2020:
Blues: Auckland, Northland, North Harbour
Chiefs: Waikato, Counties, BOP, Taranaki
Hurricanes: Wellington, Manawatu, Hawke's Bay
Crusaders: Canterbury, Ta$man
Highlanders: OtagoIn some ways I agree with you that Southland is very forgettable, and not worthy of mention.
Still , I do think that for completeness sake they should be included.
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@damo These are the FPC provinces, not NPC (it was a post about possible franchise teams for the women's SR competition, next year). Thus far, Southland have not entered a team in the Farah Palmer Cup, although - I think - a Southland women's team was fielded last year for a preseason game against Otago. Not sure whether they'll enter a team in this year's FPC.
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@damo said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@stargazer said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
This seems to be the preferred format for the women's SRA:
Robinson said a potential professional women’s rugby competition would likely feature a maximum of four teams, represented by the three current North Island Super Rugby clubs and a combined one from the South Island.
One South Island team makes total sense, if you look at the FPC provinces in each SR catchment, with Premiership teams (at the end of the 2019 season) in bold, and taking into account the improvement of Northland and Manawatu in 2020:
Blues: Auckland, Northland, North Harbour
Chiefs: Waikato, Counties, BOP, Taranaki
Hurricanes: Wellington, Manawatu, Hawke's Bay
Crusaders: Canterbury, Ta$man
Highlanders: OtagoIn some ways I agree with you that Southland is very forgettable, and not worthy of mention.
Still , I do think that for completeness sake they should be included.
If this is to create pathways and grow the game then two SI teams are needed. If you go with only one you will simply end up with the Cantab team plus a couple of others. I'm guessing that this will be semi pro and that many squads will look to draw from exciting young development players as much as those that are 'local' and possibly not top level but available by being close by.
Otago-ites will throw up in their mouths at the though of being 'Crusaders'.
Southland has a strong development pool of young women from SGHS and have been working toward a FPC team in the next season or so. Brad Fleming is developing talent in Wakatipu (which can align with either Southland or Otago). Oamaru has had a couple of youth team NZ selections recently etc etc.
Forcing young women to move to Chch to play wouldn't work and the Highlanders have been putting in annual camps for young players for a while now building toward something like this.
Would they be as competitive as the larger population centres? Probably not. But they deserve an opportunity. -
If you look at the NZ Barbarians and Black Ferns squads that played each other last year there were 4 Otago players involved, plus you have the likes of Alena Saili from Southland in the sevens. Brazier is originally from Otago. I'm sure you could attract players to a Highlanders womens team if they are on the fringes of selection in other teams.
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@crucial Nah, at the moment there are not enough players who would be good enough to fill two South Island teams. They will be drawn from FPC squads. This is not a comp that will replace the FPC, but an additional comp for the best players only.
One Mainland team could play home games in both Chch and Dunners. A Mainland team would have a fair bit of Otago players, not just Canterbury (who would obviously have most players). And a small number from Ta$man.
I don't see the difference between players having to move from Dunedin to Chch and players having to move from New Plymouth to Hamilton, or Napier to Wellington.
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@stargazer said in Super Rugby Women's Competition:
@crucial Nah, at the moment there are not enough players who would be good enough to fill two South Island teams. They will be drawn from FPC squads. This is not a comp that will replace the FPC, but an additional comp for the best players only.
One Mainland team could play home games in both Chch and Dunners. A Mainland team would have a fair bit of Otago players, not just Canterbury (who would obviously have most players). And a small number from Ta$man.
I don't see the difference between players having to move from Dunedin to Chch and players having to move from New Plymouth to Hamilton, or Napier to Wellington.
It's the (expected) semi-pro nature that makes it difficult. Can a player studying at Otago be expected to train and play in Chch? Or a woman holding down a job and family in Napier? Fair enough if they were going to be paid a decent salary and game fee but that isn't going to happen for a while. NP is always going to be an outlier geographically but it is a hell of a difference travelling NP to Hamilton than Invercargill to Chch.
Besides you want to have a women game as curtain raiser to a mens one. Isn't that the idea? -
@crucial I don't think it's necessarily their intention to play SRA-W games as curtain raisers to the men's games. There's a lot to say to play their games in smaller venues (Jerry Collins Stadium, Porirua; Rugby Park, Christchurch etc) with cheap tickets, like they do with most FPC games. I think it would be great to have a SRA-W game on a Sunday afternoon, esp if the SRA team has an away game that same weekend.
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@stargazer said in Super Rugby Women's Competition:
@damo These are the FPC provinces, not NPC (it was a post about possible franchise teams for the women's SR competition, next year). Thus far, Southland have not entered a team in the Farah Palmer Cup, although - I think - a Southland women's team was fielded last year for a preseason game against Otago. Not sure whether they'll enter a team in this year's FPC.
I didn't realise that.
I think NZR should make a rule that if a team wants to play in the NPC they need to have a team in the womens comp as well.
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@damo said in Super Rugby Women's Competition:
@stargazer said in Super Rugby Women's Competition:
@damo These are the FPC provinces, not NPC (it was a post about possible franchise teams for the women's SR competition, next year). Thus far, Southland have not entered a team in the Farah Palmer Cup, although - I think - a Southland women's team was fielded last year for a preseason game against Otago. Not sure whether they'll enter a team in this year's FPC.
I didn't realise that.
I think NZR should make a rule that if a team wants to play in the NPC they need to have a team in the womens comp as well.
Nice idea, but is it feasible?
Has Southland even got a women's club comp? How many players/teams? What standard? Would they be physically able to match up?
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@booboo said in Super Rugby Women's Competition:
@damo said in Super Rugby Women's Competition:
@stargazer said in Super Rugby Women's Competition:
@damo These are the FPC provinces, not NPC (it was a post about possible franchise teams for the women's SR competition, next year). Thus far, Southland have not entered a team in the Farah Palmer Cup, although - I think - a Southland women's team was fielded last year for a preseason game against Otago. Not sure whether they'll enter a team in this year's FPC.
I didn't realise that.
I think NZR should make a rule that if a team wants to play in the NPC they need to have a team in the womens comp as well.
Nice idea, but is it feasible?
Has Southlake even got a women's club comp? How many players/teams? What standard? Would they be physically able to match up?
Yes, and as the only NPC province without a team in the FPC, they are aiming for a team in the FPC in 3 years (as at Sept 2020, so I would read that as aiming for 2023).
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@crucial said in Super Rugby Women's Competition:
@stargazer said in Super Rugby Women's Competition:
@crucial Nah, at the moment there are not enough players who would be good enough to fill two South Island teams. They will be drawn from FPC squads. This is not a comp that will replace the FPC, but an additional comp for the best players only.
One Mainland team could play home games in both Chch and Dunners. A Mainland team would have a fair bit of Otago players, not just Canterbury (who would obviously have most players). And a small number from Ta$man.
I don't see the difference between players having to move from Dunedin to Chch and players having to move from New Plymouth to Hamilton, or Napier to Wellington.
It's the (expected) semi-pro nature that makes it difficult. Can a player studying at Otago be expected to train and play in Chch? Or a woman holding down a job and family in Napier? Fair enough if they were going to be paid a decent salary and game fee but that isn't going to happen for a while. NP is always going to be an outlier geographically but it is a hell of a difference travelling NP to Hamilton than Invercargill to Chch.
Besides you want to have a women game as curtain raiser to a mens one. Isn't that the idea?If the competition is not fully pro, then players need to live near their base of operations. The South Island is currently almost exactly a quarter of NZ's population. (And way less Polynesians as a percentage, which matters when you are talking rugby.)
It would make sense that it gets a quarter of the teams. To give it two teams means one -- and it would be the Dunedin one -- would be trying to be successful from a base under half of what the other teams would have. It would never work.
Yes, it would suck for those in Invercargill or Dunedin. But those two cities now has about the same number of people as Napier, Hastings and Gisborne combined, and they won't get a team either.
The idea that we should divide NZ up by area no longer flies.
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@chester-draws said in Super Rugby Women's Competition:
@crucial said in Super Rugby Women's Competition:
@stargazer said in Super Rugby Women's Competition:
@crucial Nah, at the moment there are not enough players who would be good enough to fill two South Island teams. They will be drawn from FPC squads. This is not a comp that will replace the FPC, but an additional comp for the best players only.
One Mainland team could play home games in both Chch and Dunners. A Mainland team would have a fair bit of Otago players, not just Canterbury (who would obviously have most players). And a small number from Ta$man.
I don't see the difference between players having to move from Dunedin to Chch and players having to move from New Plymouth to Hamilton, or Napier to Wellington.
It's the (expected) semi-pro nature that makes it difficult. Can a player studying at Otago be expected to train and play in Chch? Or a woman holding down a job and family in Napier? Fair enough if they were going to be paid a decent salary and game fee but that isn't going to happen for a while. NP is always going to be an outlier geographically but it is a hell of a difference travelling NP to Hamilton than Invercargill to Chch.
Besides you want to have a women game as curtain raiser to a mens one. Isn't that the idea?If the competition is not fully pro, then players need to live near their base of operations. The South Island is currently almost exactly a quarter of NZ's population. (And way less Polynesians as a percentage, which matters when you are talking rugby.)
It would make sense that it gets a quarter of the teams. To give it two teams means one -- and it would be the Dunedin one -- would be trying to be successful from a base under half of what the other teams would have. It would never work.
Yes, it would suck for those in Invercargill or Dunedin. But those two cities now has about the same number of people as Napier, Hastings and Gisborne combined, and they won't get a team either.
The idea that we should divide NZ up by area no longer flies.
I disagree. Super rugby is franchise rugby. It is as much about presence as representation.
That presence in turn encourages the next level and the junior/school comps and is critical if you want to have a healthy game.
According to your argument Australia would never have had the Brumbies and the Highlanders wouldn’t have existed to just beat the Crusaders. -
