Hurricanes 2023
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With Alex Fidow announcing that he’s moving on from the Canes and other players rumoured to be leaving, who do the Hurricanes need to sign to make them a genuine title threat in 2023?
Those that have signed for next year already are: (rumours that Prinsep may head off early)
Signed for 2023:
- Owen Franks
- Tyrel Lomax
- Xavier Numia
- Asafo Aumua
- Dane Coles
- Ardie Savea
- James Blackwell
- Du Plessis Kirifi
- Reed Prinsep
- TJ Perenara
- Bailyn Sullivan
- Julian Savea
- Salesi Rayasi
- Ruben Love
2024:
- Aiden Morgan
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Likely signings for next year:
- Tevita Mafileo
- Pasilio Tosi
- Pouri Rakete-Stones
- Jacob Devery
- Justin Sangster
- Isaia Walker-Leawere
- TK Howden
- Caleb Delany
- Tyler Laubsher
- Devan Flanders
- Brayden Iose
- Blake Gibson
- Cooper Flanders
- Cam Roigard
- Jamie Booth
- Riley Higgins
- Billy Proctor
- Josh Moorby
- Harry Godfrey
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@Canes4life said in Hurricanes 2023:
Likely signings for next year:
- Tevita Mafileo
- Pouri Rakete-Stones
- Jacob Devery
- Justin Sangster
- Isaia Walker-Leawere
- TK Howden
- Caleb Delany
- Devan Flanders
- Brayden Iose
- Blake Gibson
- Cooper Flanders
- Cam Roigard
- Jamie Booth
- Riley Higgins
- Billy Proctor
- Josh Moorby
- Harry Godfrey
I don't think you'll hold on to Flanders, they haven't given him enough chances.
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@gt12 yeah he’s a big ??, however if Prinsep is leaving that might seal the deal.
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@Canes4life said in Hurricanes 2023:
@gt12 yeah he’s a big ??, however if Prinsep is leaving that might seal the deal.
Good point. I'm also not sure if there is a better place for him, however the Saders would probably make him an AB.
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@gt12 the biggest problem for the Canes is the whole Ardie at 8 thing, we’ve got three outstanding 8s (Flanders, Iose, Laubsher) coming through the system but because we keep playing Ardie there means they will probably all F off at some point. The Canes would be so much stronger playing Ardie where he truely belongs in the 7 jersey but I doubt Holland will ever learn.
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This 8 would be awesome for the Canes next year:
- Mafileo
- Coles
- Lomax
- Walker-Leawere
- Sangster
- Howden
- Savea
- Flanders
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@Canes4life said in Hurricanes 2023:
@gt12 the biggest problem for the Canes is the whole Ardie at 8 thing, we’ve got three outstanding 8s (Flanders, Iose, Laubsher) coming through the system but because we keep playing Ardie there means they will probably all F off at some point. The Canes would be so much stronger playing Ardie where he truely belongs in the 7 jersey but I doubt Holland will ever learn.
Yeah, the only thing they could do is try to find a 7.5 to play at 7 to make up for that ridiculousness. So, perhaps Flanders (6), Iose (7), Savea (8) would be the right players, even if they are in the wrong jerseys.
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@gt12 yeah we will never win a title by picking Blackwell, Prinsep, Gibson and Kirifi in the same pack. It’s far too undersized. Having Iose at 7 may be the answer but it’s not ideal.
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@Canes4life said in Hurricanes 2023:
Likely signings for next year:
- Tevita Mafileo
- Pasilio Tosi
- Pouri Rakete-Stones
- Jacob Devery
- Justin Sangster
- Isaia Walker-Leawere
- TK Howden
- Caleb Delany
- Tyler Laubsher
- Devan Flanders
- Brayden Iose
- Blake Gibson
- Cooper Flanders
- Cam Roigard
- Jamie Booth
- Riley Higgins
- Billy Proctor
- Josh Moorby
- Harry Godfrey
I like your optimism about the Canes signing Cooper Flanders, too. Not sure it will happen, though. Would be great to develop him as a permanent replacement of Kirifi/Gibson, adding some height as well (he's only a little bit shorter than Devan). A player who can play all three backrow positions would be an asset.
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@Stargazer I think they will sign Cooper but I don’t think he will play much. Same with Higgins and Godfrey.
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@Canes4life They could give them game time against the likes of Western Force, Drua and MP. And obviously preseason games.
Not sure Cooper will already get a NPC contract btw. I hope he gets Brendon O'Connor's spot. He'd sit behind Solomone Funaki and Josh Kaifa, but it would be a year of learning.
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@Stargazer yeah no point rushing the kid. Hopefully he takes over from Kirifi.
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Why are you all looking at the loosies when it is locks and 10s that you need?
If you want to back Moorby and Love then go ahead and target the semis as a development year for them. It's the best option.
Depth in the second row is your next problem. -
@Crucial said in Hurricanes 2023:
Why are you all looking at the loosies when it is locks and 10s that you need?
If you want to back Moorby and Love then go ahead and target the semis as a development year for them. It's the best option.
Depth in the second row is your next problem.The big question for me is where Cameron will go - either the Canes or the Landers (possibly Chiefs, but that would be assuming we don't re-sign Dmac, so hopefully not).
My feeling is that Cameron would be a good fit for the Landers, but he was rumored to be a Canes target (I think I read that somewhere). If he doesn't sign, then aiming to be the third best NZ side and try to steal a semi would be over-achieving.
In terms of lock talent, one question could be whether the Chiefs can keep all of theirs. Picking up even McWhannell could be good for the Canes.
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The Canes should sign Cridge again. Only not sure Cridge would want to. He gets consistent game time at the Waratahs. He might be watching from the sideline a lot at the Canes, despite being far better - and taller - than Blackwell.
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@Canes4life said in Hurricanes 2023:
This 8 would be awesome for the Canes next year:
- Mafileo
- Coles
- Lomax
- Walker-Leawere
- Sangster
- Howden
- Savea
- Flanders
You’re forgetting Blackwell.
Typo I assume 😉
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@Stargazer said in Hurricanes 2023:
The Canes should sign Cridge again. Only not sure Cridge would want to. He gets consistent game time at the Waratahs. He might be watching from the sideline a lot at the Canes, despite being far better - and taller - than Blackwell.
Nah Cridge is average, he started a couple of games for the Waratahs and soon became out of favour there once they realised he’s big but doesn’t make much impact. I would prefer Tom Parsons, he looks to have a great work rate.
We need locks and props who can scrum and have high work rates. Sangster was a brilliant find this season but we need to find more gold nuggets.
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@Canes4life LOL, I don't know how you make up that bs about Cridge. He started 7 games (both at the beginning and near the end of the comp), came off the bench in 4, was injured in round 3 (ankle), 13 (hand), 15 (concussion) and the QF (concussion). So he played in 11 of their 15 games. He played pretty well for a rookie who had one SR game under his belt before the season started. He has consistently been one of the best locks in NPC, too, the last few years, and has a huge workrate.
I think Parsons is class and deserves to play SR, but he's 31 years old.
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@Stargazer nah Cridge isn’t anything special, definitely not the sort of lock I would be looking for to help bolster an area of weakness within the Canes.
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@Canes4life said in Hurricanes 2023:
@Stargazer nah Cridge isn’t anything special, definitely not the sort of lock I would be looking for to help bolster an area of weakness within the Canes.
Right, so you are quite happy to persevere with Mr. Blackwell then?
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@Higgins said in Hurricanes 2023:
@Canes4life said in Hurricanes 2023:
@Stargazer nah Cridge isn’t anything special, definitely not the sort of lock I would be looking for to help bolster an area of weakness within the Canes.
Right, so you are quite happy to persevere with Mr. Blackwell then?
Of course not, have you not been reading the Canes thread for the last couple of years? If we want to be title contenders we need to do better than players like Blackwell and Cridge.
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@Canes4life But you do agree that you just made up the bs you said about him getting out of favour at the Tahs, right? And that "they realised he's big but doesn't make much impact" was also also an argument you just fabricated without it being based on fact? Because if it was true, they wouldn't have kept picking him over the other locks in their squad.
You may not find him special, but he offers a heck of a lot more than Blackwell and not just centimetres in height.
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@Canes4life What you want is an ABs standard lock. Don't we all? But they don't grow on trees and there are few of those around. Until we find one, it's better to look for upgrades on who we have in the squad now. Cridge may not be ABs standard, but he is an upgrade compared to Blackwell.
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@Stargazer man you get defensive every time someone talks dirt on a Hawkes Bay player. Sheesh, stats don’t always tell you a full picture about a player, Cridge is someone I’ve watched quite closely ever since he made the Canes at the beginning of his career (including his stints for the Tahs this year) and he’s always been an average player at best, just a big body who shows the odd flash of potential but has never really pushed on to the heights many thought he would.
When you compare him to guys like Rettalick or Whitelock in their prime you quickly understand why no one has rushed out to sign him, highlighted by the fact he’s playing for the Tahs and not a NZ Super side.
And before you mention Blackwell, he too is just another average Super lock that is preventing the Canes from reaching their potential.
THE CANES NEED BETTER LOCKS! (Better than Cridge and Blackwell anyway).
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@Canes4life So you're agreeing you talk dirt?
You can't have watched him closely if you think he just had "stints" at the Tahs, this year. As I said, he didn't play just 20 minutes off the bench every game. He started most games he played in.
And yes, I'm defensive if someone makes stuff up about our players. You can have a different opinion on a player, but don't pretend to state facts when you've just fabricated them.
And as you can read in my following post, I didn't compare him with ABs locks. You are. As ABs quality locks are hard to find, they should go for an upgrade until they find or develop one.
But as I said, Cridge probably doesn't want to go back anyway, so it's a moot point. He's better off at a franchise where he gets to play regularly. Hopefully, a player like Sangster will eventually push Blackwell out and one or more of the U20s players turn out to be gems. But with Larsen still in charge, some talent will probably slip through the Canes' nets.
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@Canes4life said in Hurricanes 2023:
@Stargazer man you get defensive every time someone talks dirt on a Hawkes Bay player. Sheesh, stats don’t always tell you a full picture about a player, Cridge is someone I’ve watched quite closely ever since he made the Canes at the beginning of his career (including his stints for the Tahs this year) and he’s always been an average player at best, just a big body who shows the odd flash of potential but has never really pushed on to the heights many thought he would.
When you compare him to guys like Rettalick or Whitelock in their prime you quickly understand why no one has rushed out to sign him, highlighted by the fact he’s playing for the Tahs and not a NZ Super side.
And before you mention Blackwell, he too is just another average Super lock that is preventing the Canes from reaching their potential.
THE CANES NEED BETTER LOCKS! (Better than Cridge and Blackwell anyway).
You can't have been watching all that closely or else you will have noticed that his sum total of Hurricanes games total exactly one during his time with them which was wrecked completely with a series of injuries that kept him sidelined for almost the entire period. Congratulations on being so perceptive as to form an opinion on him in less than eighty minutes of action.
In terms of Magpies appearances (59 in total) he was never outclassed and that includes all the matches against Wellington where the Bay won every time. -
@Canes4life said in Hurricanes 2023:
@Stargazer nah Cridge isn’t anything special, definitely not the sort of lock I would be looking for to help bolster an area of weakness within the Canes.
That's unsurprising, you're as blinkered with your favouritism towards Wellington players as the Canes coaches and management.
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And what about Dominic Bird ?
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Lol surprise, surprise, here comes the Hawkes Bay Mafia.
You guys getting all defensive won't change the fact that Cridge is an average Super Rugby lock at best, just like James Blackwell and many other locks out there atm. We need better than that if we want to reach that next level.
@Nepia what Wellington favouritism? I literally just said we need to get rid of James Blackwell aswell.
Talk about the broken record award.
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@Canes4life But your comments say indicate that you prefer him over the also Mr. Blackwell. Then you go on to say that "compared to guys like Retallick or Whitelock in their prime you quickly understand why no one has rushed out to sign him". Well if you use that standard to rate a lock's suitably to be signed for super rugby in NZ then we are going to be rather short of them.
Oh and how do you explain the Hurricanes failure to sign Brodie Retallick? Surely he must rate a tad higher than the likes of Mark Reddish and Jeremy Thrush. -
@Higgins what I'm trying to get at is if the Canes want to be title contenders over the next couple of years we need to sign locks that are far better than the Blackwell's or Cridge's of this world.
Somone like Michael Fatialofa is a prime example of a player that brought a physical edge to his work and was able match it with the likes of Whitelock and Rettalick. When the Canes get parity in their tight five they are a very hard side to stop so my big question for the Canes this off-season is where are they going to find the next Fatialofa?? Blackwell and Cridge aren't the answer.
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@Canes4life said in Hurricanes 2023:
Lol surprise, surprise, here comes the Hawkes Bay Mafia.
You guys getting all defensive won't change the fact that Cridge is an average Super Rugby lock at best, just like James Blackwell and many other locks out there atm. We need better than that if we want to reach that next level.
@Nepia what Wellington favouritism? I literally just said we need to get rid of James Blackwell aswell.
Talk about the broken record award.
The BoP are the mafia, not us. We will have a meeting and come up with a name and get back to you.
Dude, you're always fluffing young Wellington players for the Canes. You occasionally fluff a Hawkes Bay player (like the Canes pick the odd token couple of HB players).
Your comments about Cridge are B/S, as @Stargazer rightly skewered you about how many games he played for the Tahs and the reasons he missed some games. Parsons is great, but Cridge is a pretty similar player and in the past couple of years when not injured has put in a string of good performances. But no point discussing Parsons and the Canes either as he can't even make the team after years of standout performances.
The funny thing is that the Canes paid Cridge for three years of injury and then dumped when he started playing regular rugby. And until he started playing that regular rugby us HB fans on here were suspicious of his claims as a player - but he won us over with good performances.
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@Nepia we all fluff our own players from time to time but that won't stop me calling out a player from Wellington when I don't think he's up to mark either. With you guys it's like every Hawkes Bay player can do no wrong and when someone makes an observation you all get defensive.
Look, when I watch Cridge play he doesn't stand out to me. When I've watched him for the Waratah's this year he hasn't done anything James Blackwell hasn't. They both do their jobs to a certain standard but they will never be anything more than average, or good as you say.
James Blackwell has also had good performances, but good doesn't necessarily cut it when you want to be champions.
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My concern is that we don't hold onto Jordie. This to me is a must. Then we need to look at a better first (to replace JGB). Id like at least one AB quality lock too.
The Chiefs have recruited 2 recently for example so it can be done
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3 All Blacks. Not a good look. Compared to the Chiefs who have 9. Is it poor recruitment by the Canes. Or poor coaching.
And TBH non were unlucky to miss out. TJP might be pissed off but they are looking to the future now
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@Winger said in Hurricanes 2023:
3 All Blacks. Not a good look. Compared to the Chiefs who have 9. Is it poor recruitment by the Canes. Or poor coaching.
And TBH non were unlucky to miss out. TJP might be pissed off but they are looking to the future now
I think it's probably a case of the Canes having a very young side, along with the fact that Holland keeps selecting his favourites who are never going to be All Blacks anyway. I.e. Blackwell, Prinsep, Kirifi, J Savea. It's also a bit of bad coaching in my eyes aswell, PUJ, Lomax and Aumua have all been All Blacks but yet they don't feature in this squad, that definitely says something.
The Canes really need to get the right coaching staff to turn things around but that won't happen anytime soon with Holland signed on until the end of next year.
I think there are plenty of guys who will push for AB selection in the future, but their time just isn't now.
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@Canes4life Remember PUJ was only brought into the ABs squad in 2020 because Ennor was injured.
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@Nepia I will come to the defence of @Canes4life here. He has stopped fluffing Alex Fidow (and to a leser extent Xavier Numia) for about 18 months now. Whether that is because he no longer falls into the young Wellington players category or he has finally accepted and agreed with me that Mr. Fidow will never master the arts for propping to be effective at any level over Premier Reserve club level (Ories don't always start him at prop).
