Highlanders 2025
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
We just need to keep the playing group together. It'd be a shame to see Tangitau spend two years in Dunedin, Telea go overseas and him switch straight back into the Blues 14 jersey.
There is a core of a really good team there. They are just very young.
In comparison most weeks the other NZ teams can rely on All Blacks and other former internationals to provide direction. We, at the moment have guys 24 and under, then look at the long-termers who are the likes of DLB and Gilbert. Not big stage players.
The ship will turnaround. Hopefully everything is putting place before Joseph decides he is refreshed and ready for international rugby again.
Hoping there are a few guys coming through that will hopefully fill some gaps. Then we need to look at opportunities to pick up Super ready guys stuck behind All Blacks like Tangitau.
Malachi Wrampling-Alec should be the next type of Howden/Tangitau target. very promising 8 from last years NZ 20s and Waikato, he's contracted with the Chiefs however long term with Sititi, Jacobson & Parker up there his chances might be limited
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@Bovidae I'm not disputing that George Dyer is very talented. I'm just making the observation that history tells us he's almost certainly too small for top tier international rugby.
Like there's such a pattern of us choosing big units for props that I just don't see anyone else in the conversation aside from Norris and Ma'au. Numea and Dyer are exceptional super rugby props. And on form Numea or Norris should have been picked last year over Tosi for a propping position (loosehead or tighthead). But Razor went for the biggest unit he could find. I don't see why this year he'll do anything different.
Instead I think he'll just let Jason Ryan have his way with him and mould him into the player he needs. Much the same as how 2018 - 2022 Lomax was extremely underwhelming. Many of us forget that in the space of six months Lomax went from being absolutely destroyed at super rugby level in scrums to our first choice tight-head all thanks to Jason Ryan. I see the same happening with Ma'au.
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Having watched the Force Reds game, the highlanders are in big trouble. The force will be able to exert significant pressure on the set piece and around the breakdown. They look polished and astute in their game play.
A loss here, which is looking likely, the season may as well be over with five games against the Chiefs, Crusaders, and a hurricanes side that will have a big ABs cohort back. Bottling the games against the Waratahs, Hurricanes and arguably Brumbies and Reds games shows it’s just the same old season. Can’t spend another season saying oh x,y,z improved because at the end of the day it hasn’t, we’ve been saved by individual brilliance, rather than playing good consistent rugby.
Can’t say it’s a good season when one game of Hurley brilliance and Caleb Tangitau has been the difference the current situation and being at the bottom of the table. At the end of the day that’s what it is.
The young players now have plenty of NPC and super experience. It’s no longer an excuse. Other franchises are producing top talent at the same age and are on a better upward trajectory than some of players at the highlanders. There is a core problem that needs to be addressed and waiting for the young cohort to grow isn’t going to cut it.
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@KiwiInLondon You are just unnecessarily negative about a very young side who has a few key injuries.
This season is so clearly very different to every season since 2019, and in that I include the side which nearly won Super Rugby Trans Ta$man
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@frugby exactly need to keep things in perspective. 7, 9, 10 key positions in a rugby team, our guys there at the moment Lasaqa, Hastie & Robinson had never started in Super before this season. All our losses within 7 points. Far less shameful than recent years when the Canes or Brumbies would score 49 points against us on any given week.
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@Grooter said in Highlanders 2025:
@frugby exactly need to keep things in perspective. 7, 9, 10 key positions in a rugby team, our guys there at the moment Lasaqa, Hastie & Robinson had never started in Super before this season. All our losses within 7 points. Far less shameful than recent years when the Canes or Brumbies would score 49 points against us on any given week.
There is the makings of a really good side here. This is a good backline, and I thought our loose forward trio really clicked in the second half... outside of some dubious officiating, I thought we finally won the ruck battle in the second half.
Tight five still has work to do, but Tengbald will help at lock next year... ideally we'll be getting a big number eight, and a big tighthead to go with it.
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Same negative bullshit. From the same negative poster.
Few points.
These guys have had plenty of NPC experience.
Yip. Some have played around three/four seasons. Thing is if you tier NPC, Super and international. It is NPC (C tier), Super (B tier) and international (A tier). Super Rugby is full of experienced international players. We have a loosehead and a halfback who played a handfull of internationals. That's it. We are playing teams with 6/8 internationals weekly. The Brumbies, as I mentioned had 200 international caps combined with their starting props.
Other franchises have had younger players who have done better than ours
Don't agree. Start from 2021 NZ U20 squad. Which aligns to when we went from a recruitment focus to a development focus.
Out of the national squad. We have six players in the 2025 squad that were involved. Vikena, JRK, Holland, Howden, Withy and Hastie involved. The players to have spent time with the All Blacks have been Lord, Bell, Fihaki. Holland, Lakai and Love. Our cohort is certainly in the top group from that squad.
There are always risks with signing young players. They are effectively taking up a spot while you work out whether they are capable of playing at that level. Some have not worked yet. Such as Wingham, Michaels, potentially Te Hiwi.
A lot of other squads also have the benefit of bringing in their younger players alongside established players. Macca Springer and Chay Fihaki play alongside Sevu Reece and Will Jordan. George Bell packed down beside All Blacks etc. Due to being youth focused. We simply do not have the experience to support the development of our young players. They are needing to learn on the job.
Why don't we just recruit better players...
Well we have been. The last two seasons we have seen some highly influential players come into the side. Guys like JRK, Tangitau, Tele'a, Lasaqa, Tanatavanawai and Vikena have all been recruited from outside the franchise and have been better than the players they have replaced. I haven't included players from inside the franchise.
Compare that to new players in previous years. Where we recruited guys like Paea, Lowe, Gregory, Whetton, Nabura, Kuridrani, Milner-Skudder the list can go on. We certainly have a more targeted approach to recruitment these days.
Recruitment is also multifactored. Does the player want to move to Dunedin. Does the player see value in moving to the Highlanders. Are they the right fit. Will they be a long-term solution for both the player and the franchise. It isn't as easy as just better players should come and play with us.
Is the season an improvement?
From my perspective it is a massive yes. Only two wins. Not ideal. A losing bonus point in every game. Is a big step forward. Jeez we copped some punpings over the last few years. We are playing some of the most exciting rugby in the comp. Is there room for improvement. Heck yeah. But the bad should not outweigh the good.
What we need to do
We really need to retain the young guys that are performing. We can't be seen as a finishing school. Where we pick up players unable to get gametime behind All Blacks. Get them up to international standard and then they go home after their contracts are up.
From our U20 playing group I'd hope to see about six or seven of the current playing group make the step up out of the current cohort. I think Mika Muliaina is probably our long-term 10, which needs to be the big focus over the next few years. Same with midfield and the scrum.
Some people may say I'm offering excuses for continued loses. I just think it is the reality of this playing group. Joseph just needs to keep their heads up.
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@SouthernMann completely agree.
Our recruitment has been substantially better than previous years. There's only a handful of guys I have question marks over (Michaels, Wingham, DLB, Naeeta, Arscott and as others have said potentially Te Hiwi. and Falefaga.)
Not only that but this is the first year in five or six where more than two or three of our players are realistically in the All Blacks Frame.
Fakatava, Haig and Jacob Kneepkins are all injured but with a good season could be all blacks.
Personally I think the third halfback spot in the All Blacks is a three way race betwene Hastie, Preston and Hotham at the moment. While I think Ma'au will see a black jersey this season.
Tangitau, De Groot, Holland and Big Jim all stand very decent chances of winning a black Jersey. TK Howden, Venevui Lasaqua and Soanne Vikenna are all exciting guys with huge upsides.
While Jack Taylor, Cam Millar, Josh Tengblad, Dylan Pledger Josh Whaanga, Will Stodart and Finn Hurley are all players that Razor will be tracking with an eye towards post 2027.
I don't think it's unrealistic that in a season or two this side will have 6 - 7 All Blacks in it and the stability the comes with it to start winning titles.
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@Bones I reiterate my point that there's literally no other 120kg plus tight-head in the All Blacks frame in NZ. Psalio Tosi isn't getting game time, and Tevita Mafelio probably isn't going to get capped at his age.
We know that All Blacks don't pick under 120kg tightheads or props in general any more. So it's hard not to see him getting a black jersey.
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@george33 said in Highlanders 2025:
My understanding that Caleb will be back at Blues next season,,
it was reported he had signed 2 year deal 25-26
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@george33 Considering he is on a two year deal I'd be very surprised:
HIGHLANDERS CONFIRM FIVE PLAYERS FOR 2025 | Highlanders Rugby Club Limited Partnership
The Highlanders continue to build for the future with the confirmed signings of five talented young players. Adding to the home-grown talents of Will Stodart and Josh Whaanga, joining the Highlanders in 2025 will be two more New Zealand Under 20s representatives in Caleb Tangitau and Soana Vikena...
And failing that, he is finally getting a run of games, so why an earth would he go back to compete with Mark Tele'a and Caleb Clarke.
