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It is staggering that given her living situation she has decided to keep that baby. Its effectively emotional blackmail, and we need to find a way to stop it. While I am not in favour of sterilisation I am in favor of benefits being conditional of a contraceptive implant.
I also would be fully in support of whoever handles child protection in NZ to be waiting at the birth to remove that child from her immediately. There can be no argument that she is fit to have a baby making a decision like that.
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@Kirwan said in Universal income:
I'd be in interested in seeing the figures with scrapping most social welfare payments and replacing it with universal income.
If it's basically a wash then you could save money with less red tape and free up access to help those that need help. The flip side would be personal responsibility and no further handouts.
Can't help but think we are at the beginning of a permanent underclass.
Unemployment would have to be massive for it to be a wash - targeted welfare is substantially cheaper than a UBI would be based on current figures because our unemployment-based welfare eligibility criteria are quite tight, even if Super was replaced by a UBI.
All that said, when it comes to ferals, I'd rather pay them to stay home high as a kite on weed and play on a console or watch sky, than pay to jail them (freaking expensive), or attempt to force them on employers by demanding they look for work or force them into (more) crime by refusing them welfare payments. These people are dangerous at work, and often negatively productive, and while a bullet would be cheaper, I don't believe in the death penalty either directly or by starvation/hypothermia, so that's my personal least worst solution.
Also don't agree with offering sterilisation in those circumstances, but taking the children at birth is fine.
For housing for these "charming" individuals, I recommend shipping containers with minimal furniture - if they are particularly destructive, they can have a bolted down steel frame for a bed, a blanket or two and an indestructible toilet and wash basin. If that sounds like a prison cell, that was my inspiration.
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I wonder if the herald expect us to give a shit about her? Her poor kid is never going to stand a chance with a monumental feral like that for a parent . Basically all they proved that Bob Jones was right.
When they were thrashwanking last year about homelessness they interviewed a couple that trashed their flat so no one would rent them a new one so they moved to Auckland and lived in their car with their newborn . They didn't go to Winz because they thought they might take the kid. -
@jegga said in Universal income:
@mooshld I would have assumed under normal circumstances her appearance and personality would have amounted to a fairly effective contraceptive.
Well we know that @No-Quarter wouldn't go there if the fate of the world depended on it but @mariner4life would have a crack after a few XXXXs
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@Godder said in Universal income:
Also don't agree with offering sterilisation in those circumstances, but taking the children at birth is fine.
Taking the children at birth would be fine if there was anywhere to put them. A mate at work has just taken on 3 children from a couple of ferals via permanent placement, and it's a messy process at best. The feral parents retain a huge amount of rights, of which he's had to use his lawyer to negotiate to reduce their power over the children's lives. Moving forward he has to deal with these two drop kicks on a fairly regular basis as they have the right to see their children etc. Hardly surprising people are not lining up to take these kids on.
I'm with @aucklandwarlord sterilisation is the best option for people like that.
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@No-Quarter is it an open adoption or is he just fostering them for a while ?
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@No-Quarter said in Universal income:
I'm with @aucklandwarlord sterilisation is the best option for people like that.
Free vasectomy after the third child from any mother.
Free tubal ligation for any mother after third child.
Next generation gets them after 2.
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@NTA said in Universal income:
@No-Quarter said in Universal income:
I'm with @aucklandwarlord sterilisation is the best option for people like that.
Free vasectomy after the third child from any mother.
Free tubal ligation for any mother after third child.
Next generation gets them after 2.
That's all after the fact though. Should we really wait till this lass has 3 till we say hey 4 is a bit much? She can't support one.
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@jegga said in Universal income:
@mooshld I would have assumed under normal circumstances her appearance and personality would have amounted to a fairly effective contraceptive.
Turns out a box of codys will overcome all those obstacles. You're probably just lucky you can't smell through the computer. It was always the smell that got me at work. Setting aside those who are homeless, I never got how people could live in a house with a working shower but not utilise it at least once in a while
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@jegga said in Universal income:
@No-Quarter is it an open adoption or is he just fostering them for a while ?
I'm not that familiar with the process but it started off as foster care for a couple of years after which he went for permanent placenent to ensure the kids had some stability in their lives. That also meant he lost the payments from the government for looking after them, so not a lot of incentive to take them on permanently, but it was definitely in the kids best interests.
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@No-Quarter said in Universal income:
@Godder said in Universal income:
Also don't agree with offering sterilisation in those circumstances, but taking the children at birth is fine.
Taking the children at birth would be fine if there was anywhere to put them. A mate at work has just taken on 3 children from a couple of ferals via permanent placement, and it's a messy process at best. The feral parents retain a huge amount of rights, of which he's had to use his lawyer to negotiate to reduce their power over the children's lives. Moving forward he has to deal with these two drop kicks on a fairly regular basis as they have the right to see their children etc. Hardly surprising people are not lining up to take these kids on.
I'm with @aucklandwarlord sterilisation is the best option for people like that.
Also the problem can often be that these kids are toast before they're even born because if fetal alcohol syndrome and the use of drugs like meth by the mother while pregnant.
Some extended family members of ours took a kid in from similar circumstances and from a young age he was just hugely disruptive to their family unit. Violent, antisocial etc. Even having been brought up from birth in a loving adopted family wasn't enough to overcome the hurdles he faced because of his genes and drug abuse while he was in the womb.
As someone else also mentioned, there is just a huge lack of places and foster families to put these kids with if we take them at birth. But you could bet if this woman was offered 5k to have her tubes tied she'd be queing up at the hospital tomorrow.
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@aucklandwarlord that's the sad reality for a lot of these kids. It would be nice of the media could do stories that actually reflect the reality blokes like yourself have witnessed on a regular basis, instead of meaningless bleeding heart stories about how "society" needs to do more to help people.
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@Godder said in Universal income:
For housing for these "charming" individuals, I recommend shipping containers with minimal furniture - if they are particularly destructive, they can have a bolted down steel frame for a bed, a blanket or two and an indestructible toilet and wash basin. If that sounds like a prison cell, that was my inspiration.
It'd never wash. They'll only accept a 4 bedroom house with harbour views and a lawn big enough to put a few broken down cars on bricks on.
I remember last year stuff ran some feel good story about how they got in behind a homeless guy who wanted a "fresh start" and deserved a house, despite being blacklisted by hnz.
I think some community trust got in behind him and they put him in a flat in Hamilton somewhere. Two weeks later they ran a story about how he was adjusting well but the poor guy had to sleep on the floor the first night because his bed was so soft compared to sleeping on the ground. Super heart warming, warm fuzzy stuff right there
A month later they ran a story about how the neighbours were sick of him because he was having parties at all times of the day and night, abusing neighbours, had a few dogs on in the property and people coming and going at all times.
In hindsight, there was probably a valid reason he wasn't allowed a HNZ house.
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@No-Quarter the herald seems to be fixated with bleeding heart stories about ferals . I have no idea why, I doubt their readers enjoy reading about these mobile organ banks.
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@jegga said in Universal income:
@No-Quarter the herald seems to be fixated with bleeding heart stories about ferals . I have no idea why, I doubt their readers enjoy reading about these mobile organ banks.
I think the editors at the Herald read the Fern and are trolling you blokes.
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@aucklandwarlord said in Universal income:
Two weeks later they ran a story about how he was adjusting well but the poor guy had to sleep on the floor the first night because his bed was so soft compared to sleeping on the ground. Super heart warming, warm fuzzy stuff right there
Should have just given him a swag. About $400 for decent canvas and not-too-thick foam mattress. Don't want him to feel uncomfortable.
Universal income