Blues v Highlanders
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only takes one or 2 bad eggs to mess up things for everyone, much worse if they are senior players too.
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@chester-draws said in Blues v Highlanders:
Experienced first-fives they might have chased (or kept) include:
Tom Taylor
Stephen Donald, after Rennie arrived
Gareth AnscombeBut they weren't looking for players like that. They didnt want solid and reliable. They wanted superstar players. Since none were available they signed kids hoping they'd come right.
Tom Taylor was gone from NZ rugby well before Tana took over the Blues. He was clearly cashing in overseas given if he wanted to stay in NZ he had a clear path to the Crusaders 10 spot with Carter and Slade leaving after the RWC in 2015.
Gareth Anscombe had been tried and let go from the Blues years ago also. That was JK's choice. (One i think was a silly move). As mentioned earlier he then mainly played 15 for the chiefs before leaving. He was never a viable option.
Stephen Donald is an interesting one i haven't heard mentioned before. He may have been an option to be a mentor in place of Gatland. He might have been able to help with the team "culture" side also.
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@kiwimurph said in Blues v Highlanders:
You keep mentioning Anscombe as a 10. He wasn't a Super level quality 10. Chiefs played him at 15. If memory serves me correctly he was named to start one Super game at 10 for the Chiefs at Pukekohe but got injured in the leadup and didn't play.
I remember Anscombe got his chance at ten in 2014 due to Cruden being sidelined, but all their attacking stats were considerably worse during that time (must have been 3-4 games I reckon), so he was back playing bench/15 after that.
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@siam said in Blues v Highlanders:
Hmmm weeding out the disruptors so your organisation prospers.....
Hammertime huh?
If only the canes had won a title....
A hitman weeding out the disrupters is one thing. Being a good coach is quite another. You need both
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@siam said in Blues v Highlanders:
Hmmm weeding out the disruptors so your organisation prospers.....
Hammertime huh?
If only the canes had won a title....
If only the Canes had made the finals ....
TBH, I don't know why (aside from an easy way to rile me up
) the Hammettuer is continually brought up in these types of discussions, especially when the example of Rennie has been mentioned. He came in, changed the culture (wank wank) at the Chiefs, moved on players he didn't want, won the competition and did it all without chasing away top line players and a huge chunk of fanbase. -
@nepia said in Blues v Highlanders:
@siam said in Blues v Highlanders:
Hmmm weeding out the disruptors so your organisation prospers.....
Hammertime huh?
If only the canes had won a title....
If only the Canes had made the finals ....
TBH, I don't know why (aside from an easy way to rile me up
) the Hammettuer is continually brought up in these types of discussions, especially when the example of Rennie has been mentioned. He came in, changed the culture (wank wank) at the Chiefs, moved on players he didn't want, won the competition and did it all without chasing away top line players and a huge chunk of fanbase.Yep. His change of culture led to 4 final-less years and some very shitty rugby. He leaves, one of those players who was considered poisonous to the culture (Nonu) comes back and they kick arse and should have won the entire comp. Maybe Boyd could have done all that without 4 years of utter dross.
You can't be just a head kicker, you also have to coach.
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@sapetyvi said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kiwimurph said in Blues v Highlanders:
You keep mentioning Anscombe as a 10. He wasn't a Super level quality 10. Chiefs played him at 15. If memory serves me correctly he was named to start one Super game at 10 for the Chiefs at Pukekohe but got injured in the leadup and didn't play.
I remember Anscombe got his chance at ten in 2014 due to Cruden being sidelined, but all their attacking stats were considerably worse during that time (must have been 3-4 games I reckon), so he was back playing bench/15 after that.
Yes he was worse than Cruden, especially when given the reins with little warning. I would argue that at that time Cruden was the equal best 1st-five in the world -- provided he didn't have to kick goals.
The question isn't "was Anscombe the best for the Chiefs", but "would he have helped the Blues?".
My list, incidentally, isn't aimed at Tana. It's previous coaches that didn't get good halves. Tana has shown equal poor judgement of course.
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@chester-draws He certainly would have been better than Benji.
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After what Anscombe's father said to Pat Lam in 2012 with support from Gareth himself, I was quite glad to see the back of him. The best decision Kirwan made.
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@african-monkey said in Blues v Highlanders:
After what Anscombe's father said to Pat Lam in 2012 with support from Gareth himself, I was quite glad to see the back of him. The best decision Kirwan made.
Missed that. Please explain.
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Racist text to Pat Lam confirmed | Newshub
It has been confirmed that a racist text message was sent to Auckland Blues coach Pat Lam's phone.
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@african-monkey thanks
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@african-monkey,not one of the smartest moves from Anscombe,I remember at the time his wife being blamed for sending the text message after having too many Vinos at a party.
I had an interesting conversation with former Blues Assistant Bryce Woodward, just before he departed he pleaded a case with the board to keep Gareth Anscombe, during the final season Anscombe had started as the first five but there were game situations on specific parts of the field he had called a move which they had trained for only to be overruled by Nonu,from what Bryce was saying the relationship between the first five and the All Black midfielder was deteriorating and no better once the season had ended.
Woodward could see while Nonu was a current All Black,he also a very disruptive personality and moving forward it was better to cut him loose,gives an insight to why Hammett had cut some senior guys when in charge at the Canes so the better idea was to keep the younger guy moving forward and given his age,after all he was a high percentage goal kicker,could take the ball to the line and manage a team around the paddock adequately, not to mention a lot more improvement to come.
These are many of the points Woodward attempted to sell the board with.Nonu had also approached the board and told them ,if you keep Anscombe, I am on the move,remembering there was in coming coach,the board backed Nonu..and when selection time was about to roll around,Anscombe was told he would put back in the wider training squad..The Chiefs caught wind of what was happening and signed him accordling
After Anscombe had signed with the chiefs,Nonu after committing to the Blues even on hand shake deal with several board members bailed from the Blues and left them with egg on their faces.
I respect Nonu as probably one of our best ever All Black 2nd fives,but as person I have absolutely no time for him.
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@steven-harris Yup I remember all that, I remember a family member of Kirwan who I used to work with telling me basically all of what you said at the time. It was a no win situation for JK and Nonu was always a problem at Super Rugby to the point where we were forced to take him back by the NZRU in 2014, but still the right decision made by JK in my opinion as there is simply no place for racism and the bullshit excuses that came from the Anscombe family and Nonu to his credit played very well for us in is 2nd season with no Anscombe there but yes he did fuck us around badly in early 2013.
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@african-monkey interesting enough you might be able to confirm this as well,
I know a lot of people jump on some stories,why the Blues did not keep a certain player,Malakai Feketoa comes to mind,he was’nt getting a lot of game time but I believe talking to a few people in the know some of the things he was getting up to off the field may have had more to do with his leaving the Auckland franchise ,some of the no good I believe involved a member of Kirwins family.
I can clearly remember an article in a women’s magazine where just around the time he and his partner split up he admitted he had anger management issues..from what I understand if the Blues had been resentful his whole career could have been up in the air.Mils Muliaina leaving the Blues at the end of 2005 had more to do with his partner at the time who was also an employee of the Blues..
There have been some very legitimate stuff ups when it has come to recruitment at the Blues,but there has also been some players let go that go that I suspect they have had no choice but to see off.
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@steven-harris said in Blues v Highlanders:
Mils Muliaina leaving the Blues at the end of 2005 had more to do with his partner at the time who was also an employee of the Blues..
Yeah, that was a real bummer.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10351382
When his move was announced in early August, there were reports that fraud allegations involving girlfriend Hayley Armstrong, a former Auckland Rugby Union employee, were a major reason.
Ms Armstrong was investigated by police but the union withdrew its complaint after a sum of money was repaid.
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@steven-harris said in Blues v Highlanders:
Mils Muliaina leaving the Blues at the end of 2005 had more to do with his partner at the time who was also an employee of the Blues..
She was at the ARU. The fraud was reported in the press at the time. Auckland seemed to handle that about as well as they could.. they withdrew the police complaint etc but there was no way Mils could stay
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@duluth sorry my bad,I meant Auckland.
Just shows there are at times other circumstances when players do leave and all is not what it seems. -
@steven-harris said in Blues v Highlanders:
Just shows there are at times other circumstances when players do leave and all is not what it seems.
Yeah, the language used in some articles is interesting. Anyone that decides to move to the Blues is 'let go' by the other franchise. People leaving have always rejected the Blues.
You're right, it's more nuanced than that. There so many real things to complain about, there's no need to exaggerate
