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I note that not one poster has attempted to take up the challenge to explain how they would be reacting if the topic was racism instead of homophobia and why it would be different.
Too many catch phrases to bandy about to promote their political stance I guess?
Funny how people of a right wing slant remained silent for years about corporate hypocrisy when it only involved making money but never treaded on the toes of their entitled feelings of being able to say what they like?
I totally get that having the corporate world effectively dictate what is right and wrong is not a good position. However, the root cause of this particular problem was a bit of unthinking and uncaring preaching that declared a group of people (or should I say men, because let’s face it, religious opposition to homosexuality is all about gay men) unworthy of a place in what they deem to be a good world.
Believing in a sky fairy does not, and should not, give anyone the right to denigrate others because of being themselves.
As I challenged before, replace gay with black and repeat your position. -
@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
@Crucial So he didn't break terms of service. How about that.
https://www.acl.org.au/donate_izzy
$800,000.00 now
As I said (and you choose to ignore) the intention of those terms is not only clear but likely defendable in court. Go fund me is not something anyone is entitled to use, they can do because someone else created it.
Others that support the cause have created their own platform now which is their right and freedom. No need to put any blame on the facilitators of go fund me.Oh, and that score update as if it is a telethon is making you look rather like taking glee in the aspects of bigotry that undoubtedly contribute more to this cause than the political ones.
I have always said this would be great to have run its course in the courts because I would hope that Australian society has moved beyond outdated writings and the obvious hypocrisy of religion. I would probably end up disappointed in the outcome of bigotry hiding behind religion but we have a system to decide that so let it run.
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@Crucial said in The Folau Factor:
I note that not one poster has attempted to take up the challenge to explain how they would be reacting if the topic was racism instead of homophobia and why it would be different.
Too many catch phrases to bandy about to promote their political stance I guess?
Funny how people of a right wing slant remained silent for years about corporate hypocrisy when it only involved making money but never treaded on the toes of their entitled feelings of being able to say what they like?
I totally get that having the corporate world effectively dictate what is right and wrong is not a good position. However, the root cause of this particular problem was a bit of unthinking and uncaring preaching that declared a group of people (or should I say men, because let’s face it, religious opposition to homosexuality is all about gay men) unworthy of a place in what they deem to be a good world.
Believing in a sky fairy does not, and should not, give anyone the right to denigrate others because of being themselves.
As I challenged before, replace gay with black and repeat your position.What does that even mean?
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@Bones said in The Folau Factor:
@Crucial the only thing I find really hard to understand is how Tholou was denigrating. Hell isn't actually a real place. If you believe it is, you're probably 99% likely to have the same line of thinking as Furlao anyway.
Plenty of gay christians for starters. Or at least gays that were brought up as christians and struggle to reconcile the two.
For those that don’t believe in sky fairies they are just being told that they are unworthy of being themselves in a desired society.
Pretty easy to look from the outside and say “sticks and stones” but I can imagine that it would not make you feel included in society. -
@Crucial said in The Folau Factor:
@Bones said in The Folau Factor:
@Crucial the only thing I find really hard to understand is how Tholou was denigrating. Hell isn't actually a real place. If you believe it is, you're probably 99% likely to have the same line of thinking as Furlao anyway.
Plenty of gay christians for starters. Or at least gays that were brought up as christians and struggle to reconcile the two.
For those that don’t believe in sky fairies they are just being told that they are unworthy of being themselves in a desired society.
Pretty easy to look from the outside and say “sticks and stones” but I can imagine that it would not make you feel included in society.How?
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@Crucial said in The Folau Factor:
@Bones said in The Folau Factor:
@Crucial the only thing I find really hard to understand is how Tholou was denigrating. Hell isn't actually a real place. If you believe it is, you're probably 99% likely to have the same line of thinking as Furlao anyway.
Plenty of gay christians for starters. Or at least gays that were brought up as christians and struggle to reconcile the two.
For those that don’t believe in sky fairies they are just being told that they are unworthy of being themselves in a desired society.
Pretty easy to look from the outside and say “sticks and stones” but I can imagine that it would not make you feel included in society."Sky fairies" is not very inclusive language Crucial. It would be extremely insulting to religious people and definitely not make them feel included in your world.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel I thought fairies were good? Well, unless you're Phulow.
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@Bones said in The Folau Factor:
@Crucial the only thing I find really hard to understand is how Tholou was denigrating. Hell isn't actually a real place. If you believe it is, you're probably 99% likely to have the same line of thinking as Furlao anyway.
Although there is truth in the above, would you be happy to stand on a street corner and tell all black people their going to hell because they are black? Which is Crucial's point?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
It's a very difficult one. On the one hand I have zero sympathy for Ishmael. I hate fanatical God bothering twats like him almost as much as I hate SJWs. Unless he's a total idiot he also must have realised that AR had no choice but to sack him. And as mentioned previously, only the most deluded, arrogant tosser would publically proclaim that most of the people who pay his ridiculous salary are going to hell.
But on the other hand, this whole woke, corporate censorship crap has to be called out and stopped. It's particularly the case when these corporations will happily abandon those apparently vital principals when it helps their bottom line (think multiple tech companies in China and the Middle East, Nike's sweatshops, Qantas with Emirates and Brunei, or AR re-signing an unrepentent homophobe). They're as hypocritical, repugnant and greedy as the clergy back in the day. If this case results in them not being able to police what their employees may say or think during their spare time then bring it on.
That is an excellent summary.
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@Crucial said in The Folau Factor:
@Bones said in The Folau Factor:
@Crucial the only thing I find really hard to understand is how Tholou was denigrating. Hell isn't actually a real place. If you believe it is, you're probably 99% likely to have the same line of thinking as Furlao anyway.
Plenty of gay christians for starters. Or at least gays that were brought up as christians and struggle to reconcile the two.
For those that don’t believe in sky fairies they are just being told that they are unworthy of being themselves in a desired society.
Pretty easy to look from the outside and say “sticks and stones” but I can imagine that it would not make you feel included in society.Hold on @Crucial , unless I’ve missed something IF never said any such thing as the bolded bit. I don’t doubt that is your well meant interpretation but I have to ask how does anybody become responsible for anything other than the words they actually said? Isn’t your extrapolation of his words your responsibility alone? Isn’t that the very definition of a straw man?
Look I’m an atheist, but I can see nothing good from people like you and me telling religious people what their beliefs should be. I’m with @Bones here I think, if you aren’t a Christian then the concept of Hell isn’t much of a threat . And although I’m not gay I pretty much fit the bill in every other category of people IF warned - note I say warned, not condemned, because I guarantee he would say condemning is God’s job, not his - and I find it hard to give even a fraction of a shit. I simply don’t care what he has to say about me, and the time when people like him held power over people like me is way in the distant past.
Frankly in a way I’m glad he’s proven himself to be a bit of a tool, because it gives me a chance to believe I’m superior to the good looking rugby genius with the hot wife in at least one way.
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@Crucial said in The Folau Factor:
I note that not one poster has attempted to take up the challenge to explain how they would be reacting if the topic was racism instead of homophobia and why it would be different.
As I challenged before, replace gay with black and repeat your position.
Isn't this about freedom of religious expression.
Therefore, it has a level of protection under freedom of speech.Condemnation of homosexuality (however wrongly) has long been a tenet of religions. Not sure hating on black people is a religious tenet.
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@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Bones said in The Folau Factor:
@Crucial the only thing I find really hard to understand is how Tholou was denigrating. Hell isn't actually a real place. If you believe it is, you're probably 99% likely to have the same line of thinking as Furlao anyway.
Although there is truth in the above, would you be happy to stand on a street corner and tell all black people their going to hell because they are black? Which is Crucial's point?
Where does it say that in the Bible?
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@Siam said in The Folau Factor:
@barbarian I don't think this was ever a rugby issue mate. The moment ARU allowed some tweets but not others this was never about rugby but more about virtue signalling to a fan base of rugby people who didn't really care what he'd tweeted.
You appear to apportion no responsibility to the ARU, I notice, just all blame to a sovereign individual exercising his legal right to appeal.
Presumably the ARU have all their ducks in a row and they'll demonstrate good governance and be fine, in the face of this appeal. If not, will you still blame Israel for bankrupting AR?
Get woke go broke
Qantas CEO is gay, Qantas is the Wallabies primary sponsor, this was a tweet they couldn't ignore. The last thing they wanted to do was fire him. Don't think he left them any choice, keep Folau and lose Qantas?
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@JC said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Bones said in The Folau Factor:
@Crucial the only thing I find really hard to understand is how Tholou was denigrating. Hell isn't actually a real place. If you believe it is, you're probably 99% likely to have the same line of thinking as Furlao anyway.
Although there is truth in the above, would you be happy to stand on a street corner and tell all black people their going to hell because they are black? Which is Crucial's point?
Where does it say that in the Bible?
Doesn't, never said it did, not the point.
There is a well trodden line in many above arguments (including yours) that saying people are going to hell is not really an insult or denigrating. Crucial's argument, which I agree with, is if that's the case, then it should be ok to say the same to any section of society, without fear of consequence?
Literally, telling somebody to get fucked is not really an insult either (unless you are unmarried ... and religous ... !)
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@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@JC said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Bones said in The Folau Factor:
@Crucial the only thing I find really hard to understand is how Tholou was denigrating. Hell isn't actually a real place. If you believe it is, you're probably 99% likely to have the same line of thinking as Furlao anyway.
Although there is truth in the above, would you be happy to stand on a street corner and tell all black people their going to hell because they are black? Which is Crucial's point?
Where does it say that in the Bible?
Doesn't, never said it did, not the point.
Then it’s a straw man. It is the point. A man has said that the Bible, which he believes to be the word of his god, warns that certain categories of people will go to hell if they don’t repent. His Bible really does say that, so his beliefs aren’t random or arbitrary. All the things he listed are categorised as mortal sins (i.e. if you die unshriven of those sins, your soul goes to hell), there is no question of that.
Of course the majority of Christians have moved past that, along with most of society, but his sect is not obliged to move in step along with, say, the Church of England, and us suggesting it should is telling people what is acceptable to believe. We should be very, very careful of that, don’t you think?
As to your point about racism, I f he said that black people were equally at risk of such a fate, he would not be able to rely on the backing of his Bible, as he can with me being a drunk, or my good buddy being gay. You can rightly point out that both stances are prejudiced, but one has the backing of, in IF’s belief, “indisputable fact” because it’s in the Bible, while the other doesn’t. They are not the same.
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@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Bones said in The Folau Factor:
@Crucial the only thing I find really hard to understand is how Tholou was denigrating. Hell isn't actually a real place. If you believe it is, you're probably 99% likely to have the same line of thinking as Furlao anyway.
Although there is truth in the above, would you be happy to stand on a street corner and tell all black people their going to hell because they are black? Which is Crucial's point?
While I get your point, @JC has responded in a much more articulate manner than I ever could.
To answer the question, no I wouldn't. But if I did, I'm unsure what religion I'd be espousing and I can't imagine any black people would feel unworthy if society due to the rantings of some funny sounding guy with a rat's tail.
Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions