Aussie Bush Fires
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@antipodean said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Rembrandt said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
Without having any knowledge of where the populations are and what precautions are already in place wouldn't it make sense to have very large firebreaks and frequent fuel removals from any populated areas? From what I understand bush fires are a historic inevitability so trying to stop them from occurring would be a waste of money but maybe more could be done to protect people and property. I guess that is where it is being argued the funding cuts have hit.
Given that fires can create their own weather patterns, firebreaks would have to be enormous scars on the landmark to ensure that embers couldn't create spot fires kilometres in front of the main fire.
One only has to look at the damage in suburban areas from Black Saturday:
I challenge anyone who didnt look at that pic and instantly focus on that house up the top that didnt burn as all thier neighbours did.
Also, why did the houses burn but the trees didnt?
my theory would be that the areas around the houses have no trees so would make perfect paths for the strong winds that are fanning the blazes - the houses that did not burn , maybe the owners stayed and fought the fire or they had a reticulation system or just good old luck
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@barbarian said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
The issue centres around management of National Parks in NSW.
We've got hundreds of thousands of square km of National Parks, and outside of the major parks near Sydney (eg Royal National Park, Blue Mountains, Ku-Rin-Gai etc) they have very low visitation.
These vast tranches of land present difficulties for National Parks. The purpose of these parks, broadly speaking, is to preserve the landscape. There is a faction within the management of National Parks that believe these areas should be left completely alone, or managed with a very light touch.
The problem that approach presents is twofold - fire management and pest management.
There are plenty of people west of the range who think that National Parks have been negligent in managing these two issues. They have allowed a build-up of fuel which reached levels which some deem unacceptable. In the deep, dark recesses of big parks that's never going to be fixed, but in areas surrounding property it causes landowners considerable angst.
Same goes for pests, which run riot in these big parks and in turn damage the land, fences and stock of bordering landholders.
People point to various funding/staff cuts for National Parks, but that's only part of the story. It's more of an ideological issue with how this land should be treated.
Would a large part of these parks also be inaccessible to carry out any of the burn off work required?
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Yes. The issue is in areas bordering landholdings.
Currently you aren't allowed to graze stock in these areas, which would help alleviate the issue. You also can't kill any pests in National Parks either.
The latter might be hard to implement, but certainly the former may be a way forward after these fires. Seems to me like a win-win where Parks can reduce their fuel load and drought-stricken farmers have access to more fodder for their stock.
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@barbarian said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
You also can't kill any pests in National Parks either.
I assume you mean native pests and not introduced species? Ferals should be open game regardless of where you find them.
It is weird how we also have a heritage listing for brumbies in Kosi NP under a management scheme in NSW/
Bureaucracy eh?
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Aerial footage of the Woodgate fire (and others):
https://newsroom.psba.qld.gov.au/Content/Home/Home/Video/Video-Library/-2/-2/1009
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This is from a little town in northern NSW where 2 people lost their lives. The author is the husband of the mayor of Glen Innes
Wytaliba had been back burning before fatal fire: Sparks
Badja SparksI have been a member of the Wytaliba community near Glen Innes for 40 years.
We lost two of our community members in last Friday's bushfires, and the father of my great grandson is in Royal North Shore Hospital being treated for severe burns while trying to save his house and his deceased neighbour.
Nearly 50 per cent of our able adults are members of the Wytaliba RFS, a figure envied by many other brigades. Over those 40 years on our 3500-acre property, we have had more than a dozen out-of-control bushfires that were successfully controlled, the majority in recent years.
Over the last three years, in co-operation with NSW Forestry, National Parks and the RFS, we have had very extensive controlled burning in the state forest and national park on our perimeter.
On September 14, after an outbreak of fires across the Northern Tablelands, high winds caused embers to spot more than 10 kilometres onto the the centre of Wytaliba.
After an initial emergency the fire weather abated, but over the next week the fire spread across much of the property.
In a large operation more than 20 RFS trucks, more than 100 fire fighters, bulldozers and waterbombers were successfully deployed to help defend our homes. All were saved. Much of Wytaliba was blacked out.
Carol (Glen Innes mayor with 20 year RFS service medal) and I have a large cleared area around our double brick house.
That September fire burned to our perimeter. This was just two months ago.
Everything that should be done, was done and lots more.
The fire that came last Friday was of another order of magnitude altogether. A crown fire roaring in from the west on a hot afternoon with an 80km per hour wind, it wasn't on the ground, it was a firestorm in the air, raining fire.
There was no fuel on the ground, it was already burned.
The heat ahead of the fire front ignited nearly everything in its path.
Our house was severely damaged but not destroyed. We weren't home. Others were not so lucky.
Wytaliba has lost two lives and more than half our homes, our school, our bridge our wildlife and 40 years of work to build a community. What was our paradise is now ash.
Thanks to the heroics of Wytaliba RFS and residents, and the Reddestone RFS who incredibly crossed the burning bridge to help us, some was saved.
"Today's not the day to talk about climate change".....No, yesterday was the day, or the day before, or the month before, or the year before,....but it didn't get a mention.
Now we have the reality and the mention it gets is, "don't talk about it now".
So, the politicians (and the media) turn the talk to hazard reduction burns, or the lack of them, as something else to blame on the inner-city raving lunatics.
We had a bushfire two months ago that burned most of our property. It didn't matter. It burned again.
This is climate changed. We're in the worst drought recorded. A million hectares of bush has burned. Barnaby says it's Green voters and the sun's magnetic field.
Pray for rain, pray harder for leadership.
Badja Sparks is a longtime resident of Wytaliba. His home was badly damaged in Friday's fires.
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@NTA said in Aussie Bush Fires:
This is from a little town in northern NSW where 2 people lost their lives. The author is the husband of the mayor of Glen Innes
Wytaliba had been back burning before fatal fire: Sparks
Badja SparksI have been a member of the Wytaliba community near Glen Innes for 40 years.
We lost two of our community members in last Friday's bushfires, and the father of my great grandson is in Royal North Shore Hospital being treated for severe burns while trying to save his house and his deceased neighbour.
Nearly 50 per cent of our able adults are members of the Wytaliba RFS, a figure envied by many other brigades. Over those 40 years on our 3500-acre property, we have had more than a dozen out-of-control bushfires that were successfully controlled, the majority in recent years.
Over the last three years, in co-operation with NSW Forestry, National Parks and the RFS, we have had very extensive controlled burning in the state forest and national park on our perimeter.
On September 14, after an outbreak of fires across the Northern Tablelands, high winds caused embers to spot more than 10 kilometres onto the the centre of Wytaliba.
After an initial emergency the fire weather abated, but over the next week the fire spread across much of the property.
In a large operation more than 20 RFS trucks, more than 100 fire fighters, bulldozers and waterbombers were successfully deployed to help defend our homes. All were saved. Much of Wytaliba was blacked out.
Carol (Glen Innes mayor with 20 year RFS service medal) and I have a large cleared area around our double brick house.
That September fire burned to our perimeter. This was just two months ago.
Everything that should be done, was done and lots more.
The fire that came last Friday was of another order of magnitude altogether. A crown fire roaring in from the west on a hot afternoon with an 80km per hour wind, it wasn't on the ground, it was a firestorm in the air, raining fire.
There was no fuel on the ground, it was already burned.
The heat ahead of the fire front ignited nearly everything in its path.
Our house was severely damaged but not destroyed. We weren't home. Others were not so lucky.
Wytaliba has lost two lives and more than half our homes, our school, our bridge our wildlife and 40 years of work to build a community. What was our paradise is now ash.
Thanks to the heroics of Wytaliba RFS and residents, and the Reddestone RFS who incredibly crossed the burning bridge to help us, some was saved.
"Today's not the day to talk about climate change".....No, yesterday was the day, or the day before, or the month before, or the year before,....but it didn't get a mention.
Now we have the reality and the mention it gets is, "don't talk about it now".
So, the politicians (and the media) turn the talk to hazard reduction burns, or the lack of them, as something else to blame on the inner-city raving lunatics.
We had a bushfire two months ago that burned most of our property. It didn't matter. It burned again.
This is climate changed. We're in the worst drought recorded. A million hectares of bush has burned. Barnaby says it's Green voters and the sun's magnetic field.
Pray for rain, pray harder for leadership.
Badja Sparks is a longtime resident of Wytaliba. His home was badly damaged in Friday's fires.
I had someone come to give me advice on clearing fuel around the house etc, he basically said if you get a decent fire no amount of fuel clearing will help. We have too many mature Eucalypts and we are too close to the bush. Basically said better to have a good escape plan and know ahead of time what you will save and where you will go.
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Another potential issue moving forward is the ability to get home insurance in areas that have a higher than normal fire risk. I know we struggled to find someone that was willing to insure our place. We already pay a fairly high premium, if they refuse to insure us we have a pretty high risk asset.
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@chimoaus said in Aussie Bush Fires:
Another potential issue moving forward is the ability to get home insurance in areas that have a higher than normal fire risk. I know we struggled to find someone that was willing to insure our place. We already pay a fairly high premium, if they refuse to insure us we have a pretty high risk asset.
Can you have a mortgage if you don't have insurance?
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@booboo said in Aussie Bush Fires:
@chimoaus said in Aussie Bush Fires:
Another potential issue moving forward is the ability to get home insurance in areas that have a higher than normal fire risk. I know we struggled to find someone that was willing to insure our place. We already pay a fairly high premium, if they refuse to insure us we have a pretty high risk asset.
Can you have a mortgage if you don't have insurance?
and what's a place worth if no-one can get a mortgage?
See also: sea level rise and flooding risks. Insurers insure until they don't; when the risk becomes likely, insurance no longer works. It's scary stuff
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@booboo said in Aussie Bush Fires:
@chimoaus said in Aussie Bush Fires:
Another potential issue moving forward is the ability to get home insurance in areas that have a higher than normal fire risk. I know we struggled to find someone that was willing to insure our place. We already pay a fairly high premium, if they refuse to insure us we have a pretty high risk asset.
Can you have a mortgage if you don't have insurance?
@nzzp said in Aussie Bush Fires:
@booboo said in Aussie Bush Fires:
@chimoaus said in Aussie Bush Fires:
Another potential issue moving forward is the ability to get home insurance in areas that have a higher than normal fire risk. I know we struggled to find someone that was willing to insure our place. We already pay a fairly high premium, if they refuse to insure us we have a pretty high risk asset.
Can you have a mortgage if you don't have insurance?
and what's a place worth if no-one can get a mortgage?
See also: sea level rise and flooding risks. Insurers insure until they don't; when the risk becomes likely, insurance no longer works. It's scary stuff
I don't think you can get a mortgage without insurance. If a house become uninsurable it pretty much becomes worthless, this is a risk some may face in the future for sure. I read there is a town in Wales that will be pretty much fucked with sea level rise and at this point no compensation for home owners. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/18/this-is-a-wake-up-call-the-villagers-who-could-be-britains-first-climate-refugees
I wonder how the insurance cost is now after the flooding in Townsville and other areas. The insurance companies will be well aware of trends and it would be interesting to get data from that industry to see if there have been any significant changes in payouts for bush fire damage, flooding etc.
If I eventually cannot get insurance on my block and my house burns down I may have to get a tiny home on wheels that if a fire comes again I can tow my home away