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@jegga said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Salacious-Crumb said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
The earth has been hotter in the past; the earth has been cooler in the past.
The qualifying factor in the date above is “recorded history,” in other words, when man recorded it.
But if the earth has been both hotter and cooler before mankind existed, is it even remotely possible, just a teeny-weeny little bit, that maybe mankind isn’t exclusively responsible for climate change, and that maybe the sun and water vapour are factors too?
Just asking, in good faith, before we’re forced to abandon civilization to make temperatures drop maybe 1/100th of a degree.
Don't take any notice if the graph above (the first post). Its crap
Climate change is just a weird modern day end of world cult. Where CO2 somehow through a process called back radiation (radiation leaving earth and returning about a second later) creates more warming than the sun does. And this process will almost destroy planet earth
Our sin now though is driving car and heating our house. And we must pay indulgences for our sinfulness in the form of contributions to climate funds etc.
Its amazing what garbage people believe. If the elite said there was health giving mineral on the moon and we all need to pay into a fund to get the minerals and repeated it over and over and over etc in the papers most would demand the Govt pay into this fund to save lives.
I could be wrong but I think people believing all kinds of moronic conspiracy theories wasn't as prevalent before the internet . Now it seems like theres hordes of morons who will never be convinced 9/11 wasn't an inside job or even more dangerously they believe nonsense like homeopathy or that the measles vaccine causes autism. 72 people died in Samoa and these nutters are still posting lies about vaccines on social media.
Try to stick to the topic. Or do you always do this in a group. Butt in with irrelevant crap
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@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@jegga said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Salacious-Crumb said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
The earth has been hotter in the past; the earth has been cooler in the past.
The qualifying factor in the date above is “recorded history,” in other words, when man recorded it.
But if the earth has been both hotter and cooler before mankind existed, is it even remotely possible, just a teeny-weeny little bit, that maybe mankind isn’t exclusively responsible for climate change, and that maybe the sun and water vapour are factors too?
Just asking, in good faith, before we’re forced to abandon civilization to make temperatures drop maybe 1/100th of a degree.
Don't take any notice if the graph above (the first post). Its crap
Climate change is just a weird modern day end of world cult. Where CO2 somehow through a process called back radiation (radiation leaving earth and returning about a second later) creates more warming than the sun does. And this process will almost destroy planet earth
Our sin now though is driving car and heating our house. And we must pay indulgences for our sinfulness in the form of contributions to climate funds etc.
Its amazing what garbage people believe. If the elite said there was health giving mineral on the moon and we all need to pay into a fund to get the minerals and repeated it over and over and over etc in the papers most would demand the Govt pay into this fund to save lives.
I could be wrong but I think people believing all kinds of moronic conspiracy theories wasn't as prevalent before the internet . Now it seems like theres hordes of morons who will never be convinced 9/11 wasn't an inside job or even more dangerously they believe nonsense like homeopathy or that the measles vaccine causes autism. 72 people died in Samoa and these nutters are still posting lies about vaccines on social media.
Try to stick to the topic. Or do you always do this in a group. Butt in with irrelevant crap
Odd response. I was responding to a point you made and agreeing with you . Don’t you agree there’s far too much bullshit science being peddled by useful idiots for people who ultimately use it to gain influence power or money ?
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@taniwharugby said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback pretty warm up here, but more about average than above or below...less than ave rainfall for the year though, well at my house anyway.
Sorry my bad.. the climate emergency is back on. Let me know if it cools down tomorrow and we can downgrade to DEFCON 17
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback apology accepted
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@Salacious-Crumb said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
The earth has been hotter in the past; the earth has been cooler in the past.
The qualifying factor in the date above is “recorded history,” in other words, when man recorded it.
But if the earth has been both hotter and cooler before mankind existed, is it even remotely possible, just a teeny-weeny little bit, that maybe mankind isn’t exclusively responsible for climate change, and that maybe the sun and water vapour are factors too?
Just asking, in good faith, before we’re forced to abandon civilization to make temperatures drop maybe 1/100th of a degree.
Yep and from my understanding the planet warms when emissions go up, namely from volcanoes. Climate change 250 million years ago nearly wiped out all life on the planet. I also believe the natural warming and cooling of the earth takes a lot longer than the 50 years we have seen dramatic change.
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@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Salacious-Crumb said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
The earth has been hotter in the past; the earth has been cooler in the past.
The qualifying factor in the date above is “recorded history,” in other words, when man recorded it.
But if the earth has been both hotter and cooler before mankind existed, is it even remotely possible, just a teeny-weeny little bit, that maybe mankind isn’t exclusively responsible for climate change, and that maybe the sun and water vapour are factors too?
Just asking, in good faith, before we’re forced to abandon civilization to make temperatures drop maybe 1/100th of a degree.
Yep and from my understanding the planet warms when emissions go up, namely from volcanoes. Climate change 250 million years ago nearly wiped out all life on the planet. I also believe the natural warming and cooling of the earth takes a lot longer than the 50 years we have seen dramatic change.
It usually follows not leads. So warming from natural cycles leads to higher CO2. Not the other way a =round
And what dramatic change? The temperature has changed very little over the last 50 years. Unlike the past when the world moved out of a ice age for example. And just maybe the NY Times is not the best place to get reliable data from
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@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
And just maybe the NY Times is not the best place to get reliable data from
I really want to know who you get your reliable data from?
Not saying that it is or isn't but who do you rely on?
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@Snowy said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
And just maybe the NY Times is not the best place to get reliable data from
I really want to know who you get your reliable data from?
Not saying that it is or isn't but who do you rely on?
why is in 13 month blocks?
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@Snowy said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
And just maybe the NY Times is not the best place to get reliable data from
I really want to know who you get your reliable data from?
Not saying that it is or isn't but who do you rely on?
Treat anything you read in papers like the NY Times with caution. I assume everything is likely crap today unless I can prove otherwise.
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Um, without reading the entire study, the title would seem to suggest that this is a study of a very select location, a "shallow Canadian boreal lake" to be precise, whatever the fuck that is.
It's pretty funny that you continue to dispute all evidence that supports the contrary view to yours, and when asked to produce links, sources, anything to support your view, this is what you come up with.
To be 100% clear, I'm not saying that it's impossible to find credible sources that support your views. Just that you don't seem to be able to produce them. And I continue to believe that there are many, many more credible studies that support my position over yours.
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I should repeat, for the millionth time, that nobody refutes that the climate has changed in the past, and has been hotter than now in the past. You can debate til the cows come home whether we are contributing to this latest warming (and what that increase is based off whatever base year you choose). But what I think is beyond debate is that we are not currently equipped to deal with a warming similar to what we have seen in the past. Either we slow it (again you can debate whether we can or not), or we start working on adapting to it. And we haven't started that journey at all
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@voodoo said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
I should repeat, for the millionth time, that nobody refutes that the climate has changed in the past, and has been hotter than now in the past. You can debate til the cows come home whether we are contributing to this latest warming (and what that increase is based off whatever base year you choose). But what I think is beyond debate is that we are not currently equipped to deal with a warming similar to what we have seen in the past. Either we slow it (again you can debate whether we can or not), or we start working on adapting to it. And we haven't started that journey at all
Why are we not equipped with warming? Warming means more plant growth and more food. Cooling is when the shit hits the fan. Cooling worries me not warming as our food supply will decrease
And in fact the CC "scientists" do dispute it was warmer in the past. (Have a look at the long opening hockey stick graph). This fact (it was a lot warmer in the past) based on the majority of best guesses (and that's all they are) based on the likes of ice core samples doesn't fit the unprecedented warming story.
So the CC crowd selectively pick minority samples (like pine cone samples) that fit. Hell they even slice different samples together to achieve the hockey stick impact. And then refuse to release the supporting data.
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@voodoo said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
Canadian boreal lake" to be precise, whatever the fuck that is.
If my meteorological memory serves correctly it means arctic or at least far north (as in Aurora "Borealis". As far as climate goes that means long winters, short summers, so not an indicative sample of global climate in any way.
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@Snowy said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@voodoo said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
Canadian boreal lake" to be precise, whatever the fuck that is.
If my meteorological memory serves correctly it means arctic or at least far north (as in Aurora "Borealis". As far as climate goes that means long winters, short summers, so not an indicative sample of global climate in any way.
So what do you think should be used?
Ice core samples are supposedly as good as anything to show variations over time and these are only available in the colder regions.
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@Winger For sure ice core is one of the only sources of historical data that we have. Sadly we will lose a lot of that too soon.
The broader ranging reports use a larger sample from both hemispheres to incorporate a "global" perspective not just one spot. Micro climates can skew data was my point and should be viewed as judiciously as you read the New York Times.
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@Winger That sample also only goes back to 8000 years BP. Samples from Greenland go back over 100,000 years, Antarctic way further which gives a much broader range of data globally. This information came from the British Antartic Survey that I read a while back and I'm sure it will be available to read now. They also concluded that CO2 was a major contributing factor in the changes in temperature over time. I know that you don't consider it a pollutant, which is fine, it is a naturally occurring gas and is necessary as you have said but over concentrations can be detrimental.
As for man made consequences - Rate of change (yes, fast changes have occurred in the past) and quantities are the concern and it could just be a coincidence that CO2 quantities have escalated since the industrial revolution. I tend to believe in cause and effect, not coincidence. See what I did there - thinking for myself.
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@Snowy said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Winger That sample also only goes back to 8000 years BP. Samples from Greenland go back over 100,000 years, Antarctic way further which gives a much broader range of data globally. This information came from the British Antartic Survey that I read a while back and I'm sure it will be available to read now. They also concluded that CO2 was a major contributing factor in the changes in temperature over time. I know that you don't consider it a pollutant, which is fine, it is a naturally occurring gas and is necessary as you have said but over concentrations can be detrimental.
As for man made consequences - Rate of change (yes, fast changes have occurred in the past) and quantities are the concern and it could just be a coincidence that CO2 quantities have escalated since the industrial revolution. I tend to believe in cause and effect, not coincidence. See what I did there - thinking for myself.
Except cause and effect has not been proven, it is more like correlation, which isnt proof of anything. Your post does indicate just how much of this is uncertain, and I def agree that Wingers example proves little beyond adding a piece to a puzzle, a small piece in a large puzzle. But both sides love to extrapolate these small pieces out completely.
And for the rest of you, keep your posts civil and play the topic not the man. It isnt just open season on winger
Climate Change