Aussie Bush Fires
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@Siam O.K. Root cause, or scale of destruction? Climate change and the drier bush, or just the same old idiots lighting fires?
The the morons that light them aren't making them bigger,the hot, dry, windy climate does that. Then they become self sustaining by creating their own micro climate.
@Siam said in Aussie Bush Fires:
Quite interesting that this thread has taken a round about way to getting to the root cause of these terrible terrible bush fires.
What's actually causing these fires?
I agree about that as a starting point, but like all major tragedies there are other factors. Drier fuel is one of them
Can't focus our efforts on arsonists, (like we've done for drink drivers), because the whole tragedy has been used to advance political ideologies and divisions.
Take away the arsonists and we have no bush fire devastation like we're witnessing. Simples ain't it?
Ridiculous really
@Siam said in Aussie Bush Fires:
Take away the arsonists and we have no bush fire devastation like we're witnessing. Simples ain't it?
Ridiculous reallyYour comment is really.
No matter how they start, they are worse.
Why? because they have massive amounts of dry fuel.
Why? Because it is hotter. -
@canefan said in Aussie Bush Fires:
@Siam said in Aussie Bush Fires:
I'd be interested to see informed info about the role of back burning ( called cold burning by some as it occurs usually in June) in facilitating the fuel loads near housing and in the bush.
Talking to some farmers in western Victoria who swear by the practice as one pragmatic solution to the ever present bushfire threat.
My narrative favours that a reduce in cold burning for "looks good" environmental causes has contributed more to this disaster than any carbon trading dispute ever will.
But I'd like to know more and test my narrative.
Apparently the aborigines used to practice cold burning to minimize the risk. Someone more knowledgeable than me said that the authorities don't favour the practice. That leaves more dead wood as fuel and how they are paying the price
They did nothing of the sort. Some tribes used fire to flush out prey. This myth of them managing the environment has as much validity as secret women's buiness.
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@Siam said in Aussie Bush Fires:
I'd be interested to see informed info about the role of back burning ( called cold burning by some as it occurs usually in June) in facilitating the fuel loads near housing and in the bush.
Talking to some farmers in western Victoria who swear by the practice as one pragmatic solution to the ever present bushfire threat.
My narrative favours that a reduce in cold burning for "looks good" environmental causes has contributed more to this disaster than any carbon trading dispute ever will.
But I'd like to know more and test my narrative.
It's been too hot and too dry to do a lot of fuel reduction burns. The fire season is starting earlier and earlier, getting longer and longer. This means finding suitable dates to conduct fuel reduction burns becomes harder and they can't treat as many hectares as they require.
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@antipodean that's understandable. So definite strategies in place but unable to carry out because of weather as opposed to recent greenie laws prohibiting back burning (to suit my hypothesis narrative) then ( as far as you know)?
Sorry to lump all this on you mate, (you may know), just trying to test the " greenies stopped back burning" accusations.
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@Siam said in Aussie Bush Fires:
@antipodean that's understandable. So definite strategies in place but unable to carry out because of weather as opposed to recent greenie laws prohibiting back burning (to suit my hypothesis narrative) then ( as far as you know)?
Sorry to lump all this on you mate, (you may know), just trying to test the " greenies stopped back burning" accusations.
The Greens actually state that they support fuel reduction burns on their website (https://greens.org.au/bushfires)
Of course to make any lie believable, it has a grain of truth. Environmental activism changed the extent and practises of National Parks management. And it's entirely possible to say you support one thing while implementing enough "checks and balances" to ensure what you say you support can't actually come to fruition - something all political parties do.
Then there's the nimbyism, the effect of which can't be overstated. People don't want to have a beautiful day ruined with smoke. Councillors know this and they too make it difficult.
So effectively everyone's at fault.
Then we have to acknowledge that we've had fires take thousands of hectares, property and human life where they've recently conducted fuel reduction burns, because they're a different type of fire. They're canopy fires instead of ground fires. Fuel reduction burns can't stop those.
So to all this, add a drought, no rains which normally follow bush fires and we're saying hello to what looks like the new normal.
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I don't think any amount of fuel load reduction would help under extreme fire weather in times of drought. Plenty of studies showing fuel reduction does nothing when a proper bushfire gets going. Pretty sure there was a major fire up north that destroyed houses and it had no ground fuel as it was already burnt in a previous fire.
Plenty of planned burns have gotten out of control and caused major bushfires etc. They have to have near perfect conditions for a number of days to do a burn which reduces the window available. Like anything it is probably finding a happy medium.
As Scomo is happy to say Australia has always had fires, whether that was by Aboriginals, the local arsonist or natural causes. The difference now is the hotter climate combined with the drought.
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@antipodean awesome, thanks mate.
Aaanndd once again, a multifaceted, complex problem can't be solved with a simple "It's all your fault...."
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@Siam said in Aussie Bush Fires:
@antipodean awesome, thanks mate.
Aaanndd once again, a multifaceted, complex problem can't be solved with a simple "It's all your fault...."
If you needed this thread to tell you that, then you have a problem
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@mariner4life said in Aussie Bush Fires:
@Siam said in Aussie Bush Fires:
@antipodean awesome, thanks mate.
Aaanndd once again, a multifaceted, complex problem can't be solved with a simple "It's all your fault...."
If you needed this thread to tell you that, then you have a problem
Thanks yoda👏
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@chimoaus said in Aussie Bush Fires:
Any idea why there is not one co-ordinated fire organisation in Australia with plenty of funding and resources? Did I hear a rumour you could buy 20 water bombers or 1 fighter plane. I know which ones would be more useful around now.
Because of our Constitution.
And water bombers can't defend the air-sea gap.
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@antipodean Defend against who?
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@chimoaus said in Aussie Bush Fires:
@antipodean Defend against who?
Prospective enemies to our North, in a volatile area where just under 50% of global trade by volume worth trillions of dollars is transported. More than 30% of global maritime crude oil went through the South China Sea in 2016. The bits where China is building artificial islands, playing maritime bumper cars against Japan and Philippines for example.
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@chimoaus said in Aussie Bush Fires:
Any idea why there is not one co-ordinated fire organisation in Australia with plenty of funding and resources? Did I hear a rumour you could buy 20 water bombers or 1 fighter plane. I know which ones would be more useful around now.
As was explained to me by a lawyer here recently Australia is essentially a collection of eight different countries, each with different laws.
Each state has it's own Police, Emergency Services etc.
For example, if you arrest someone in Qld for crime in NSW you have to go through an extradition process.
And most bushfire emergencies aren't or haven't been this widespread.
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I was with my in-laws for the week at Dalmeny, just north of Narooma. NYE was scary but we were never really under threat.
The blackouts and lack of phone reception were trying, but it was only a few days and we managed to survive pretty well. The ABC radio service was truly outstanding in this time.
A lot of people had evacuated to Narooma, including many who lost their homes in Cobargo and Quaarma. People camping on the golf course, by the roadside, on the headland. Fuel lines about 700m long.
They did a really amazing job to open the roads, and we drove back to Sydney yesterday via the Princes and Snowy Highway. Initially driving through the southern fireground with trees still burning by the roadside, and then up through the high country where the smoke and fog meant visibility of only 20-30m at times.
We have been very anxious about the town as my in-laws stayed to defend their house. It's in town but on the outskirts and not too far from bushland. They set up their caravan on the headland if they needed to evacuate, so they would be OK for water, food, a bed if it came to that.
But thankfully today has been (so far) a bit of a fizzer on the far south coast. The westerly wind hasn't got to them yet and the southerly should hit soon.
People further north haven't been so lucky.
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@barbarian said in Aussie Bush Fires:
I was with my in-laws for the week at Dalmeny, just north of Narooma. NYE was scary but we were never really under threat.
The blackouts and lack of phone reception were trying, but it was only a few days and we managed to survive pretty well. The ABC radio service was truly outstanding in this time.
A lot of people had evacuated to Narooma, including many who lost their homes in Cobargo and Quaarma. People camping on the golf course, by the roadside, on the headland. Fuel lines about 700m long.
They did a really amazing job to open the roads, and we drove back to Sydney yesterday via the Princes and Snowy Highway. Initially driving through the southern fireground with trees still burning by the roadside, and then up through the high country where the smoke and fog meant visibility of only 20-30m at times.
We have been very anxious about the town as my in-laws stayed to defend their house. It's in town but on the outskirts and not too far from bushland. They set up their caravan on the headland if they needed to evacuate, so they would be OK for water, food, a bed if it came to that.
But thankfully today has been (so far) a bit of a fizzer on the far south coast. The westerly wind hasn't got to them yet and the southerly should hit soon.
People further north haven't been so lucky.
Interestingly I just saw the following tweet: