Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?



  • A fair bit of debate about Mo'unga, and there should be. He has been great all season but especially the past few weeks. I think we all know that the selectors will stick with Beauden because they are loyal and he has done the job in the past. I am just interested as to how many people would actually be willing to pick Mo'unga right now.



  • Beaudy will start and he should. You don't discard a 60+ test AB for a guy who has played 10 minutes off the bench in the biggest game of the year.

    Real question for me is whether they'll give the Bled1 bench spot to Richie or DMac.

    I'm going to guess DMac though it would be a bit more daring to give it to
    Richie.



  • Why is Marty Banks missing from the list?

    Or is this actually a serious thread?



  • Richie has looked stellar lately. But you have to wonder how BB would go in that Crusaders team. He is also a leader in the AB's.
    It is great to have a replacement already for Sopoaga.



  • It would be peculiar to start Mo'unga in the first test. He's missed some of the training, hasn't played much outside Smith, and it would be a massive kick in the crotch to Beauden (of the sort these selectors know not to do). To do that for the start of a big series?

    I'm all for him getting a start or two, even in games against South Africa and Australia. But not the first game.



  • I like Richie's pace. I also think his decision making has been top notch lately. Yes he is playing behind a bloody decent pack, but he stood up tonight, didn;t rest on his laurels and was a catalyst for some good front foot ball.
    Dare I say he looks like the "new" BB of about 3 seasons ago,



  • I have voted for BB because there is no reason why he should be discarded. Has he ever been bad with the 10 jersey for the All Blacks ?
    But I would take Richie Mo'unga on the bench for the presumed tight games (vs South Africa (x2), Ireland and England in November).



  • I wonder if the ABs will do the trick of testing some guys on the tour part of the RC? I guess they will, as it is a rough EOYT coming. Beaudy might stay home again and mo'unga start in SA and argy



  • With youth/pace on his side I really can't see why Richie couldn't be a superb impact sub at this stage of his career. He's like DMac but without the ridiculous brain farts, so a much better fit for test footy.


  • Banned

    How did @mariner4life get to vote 8 times?

    Obviously BB. Still have nightmares about RM vs the actual Lions. Didn't have a dominant pack and went to shit. Flat track bully.

    🎣



  • @rancid-schnitzel tbf that was well over a year ago, he looks a much better player now even behind his Rolls Royce pack.



  • Just checking that poll, how many logins does Canerbry have?



  • Thing is, if DMac can play ten, why the fuck can't Mounga play fifteen? This is what puzzles me the most.



  • @bones not to mention that BB can move back to 15 anyway, didnt he do this when Dmac went to 10 in one game?


  • Banned

    @taniwharugby said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:

    @rancid-schnitzel tbf that was well over a year ago, he looks a much better player now even behind his Rolls Royce pack.

    No he shall be forever tainted.



  • @rancid-schnitzel I guess if Wayne Barnes is still a cnut, we cant let Mounga off something so recent it may as well have been yesterday 😉



  • @bones said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:

    Thing is, if DMac can play ten, why the fuck can't Mounga play fifteen? This is what puzzles me the most.

    His high ball take in the final and break shows he can handle that part of the game, has the pace for it too.

    Be a good way to ease him into the side and force DMac to cut the comedy errors out of his game.

    And until I see a Sopanga debut again South Africa type performance from Mounga at Test level, then BB is safe as houses at 10.

    It’s DMac’s position that’s under threat.



  • @taniwharugby yeah although I can see the theory of bringing on bench impact. But if there's one thing Mounga has always had it's pace. Now he reads the game beautifully. Fullback would be easy as.



  • We could just pick the 2 best first fives in the country in the All Blacks 23 and leave it at that.

    Too radical?



  • @siam best in who's opinion?



  • @taniwharugby well put simply, Barrett and Mounga are simply the 2 best at five eighth so they go into the match 23, beaudie first.

    No need to shoehorn in any "ex factor" broken field runner when those 2 can adequately control a backline to score tries.

    I'll take no notice of anyone proclaiming DMac is a better first five than the other 2



  • @siam thing is, it is the opinion of Hansen and Co that do matter, not us, I suspect they will leave Dmac at 10/15 off the bench.



  • The "playing behind a dominant pack" argument has been over-used, when talking about Mo'unga as an AB first five-eighth. In some instances, it will give him more time to make decisions, but he still has to make the right decisions. And some of the other great stuff he does on the field, has nothing to do with playing behind a dominant pack. Example:



  • The only problem RM has concerns the way that the Ab coaches want to use the 10 reserve, which is as a cover of 10, who can come on a make an impact from 15. They've made it reasonably clear that Dmac is playing that role, so although he does a lot from first receiver, he generally comes on at 15, because they want BB to have 80 at 1st five, in the same way that they wanted DC to have 80 at 1st.

    I suspect that BB is off at the end of next year, so if RM is patient, he should have the starting position in 2020.

    I'd give him a start in one or two tests this year, one of two for Dmac.

    Given that I'm pretty sure that BB is going overseas post WC, and his quality at 15, my preferred pair would BB and RM with RM doing the old Cruden role.



  • I can't say I've noticed any particular aspects, but I imagine Ritchie has picked up some great wisdom from ROG, who was a first rate tactical 10.



  • @taniwharugby you sure about that Hansen/opinion thing?

    I'm wary of a second half game plan that involves a nippy little fella running sideways till a whole opens up as a line breaking strategy

    I think Mckenzie is a terrific player, back 3 really. Mounga has just completed a Carter esque apprenticeship this season, he can break a line and he's got the confidence of ABs when controlling a game. He's ready



  • I'm actually really stoked that Mounga has stepped up to another level. When Sopoaga announced he was leaving I was pretty cheesed - the year before a world cup may be good for him, but certainly not good for the ABs. They have invested in him, and he'd got a great result in SA with his start. Looked to be comfortable at that level, and going to get better.

    If Mounga shat the bed this season, who are you looking at? Blues don't have anyone, DM and BB we know about -- you're into backups or untested players.



  • Its worth remembering the whole 10 cover/15 impact bench requirement only made a return after the Lions series when Cruden left. Between then and the Rwc final it was mostly a "proper" 10 on the bench.

    My preference would be BB to start with RM on the bench for several reasons.

    1. RM provides a bit of a different style to BB (as Cruden/Sop did) which can be useful if things aren't working for BB. Dmac just seems to play the BB game with the risk dialed up to 10.

    2. Instead of trying to recreate the "BB impact at 15" from 2014/2015 with Dmac, why not use the real BB to provide that impact? He has proven time after time that he can still do freakish things after playing 79mins. Especially if given a bit more space by moving to 15.

    3. Dmac is arguably our 4th best 15 behind Smith, Jordie and BB. I would prefer those guys to be on the park and only change things around if BB at 10 isn't working.

    Having said all that my money is on Dmac getting picked on the bench for the foreseeable future.



  • @pakman said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:

    I can't say I've noticed any particular aspects, but I imagine Ritchie has picked up some great wisdom from ROG, who was a first rate tactical 10.

    From someone who has been part of the team coaching RoG, I think

    https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/08/01/whos-knocking-on-the-door-at-number-ten/



  • @pukunui said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:

    Having said all that my money is on Dmac getting picked on the bench for the foreseeable future.

    You could be right, but on the other hand, if Hansen wants to develop Mo'unga as a test player before the RWC then he's got to give him plenty of time this year, because next year there's only the (presumably six) Rugby Championship tests.

    There's still eleven tests this year and if I was dividing them up I'd do something like:

    Beauden 6 starts 2 bench (including 1st two Bleds, England and Ireland)
    Richie 3 starts 4 bench
    DMac 2 starts 5 bench



  • @siam we know they are loyal, Dmac was outstanding in one of his last 2 ab starts, poor in the other, I can't see them dropping him from the match day 23 just yet.



  • Razor about Mo'unga "...he was tough on defence..." & "Now he is brave on D..."; he maybe 'tough' and 'brave' but he was also 'poor' with 80% of his tackle attempts missed.


  • Banned

    @machpants said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:

    Razor about Mo'unga "...he was tough on defence..." & "Now he is brave on D..."; he maybe 'tough' and 'brave' but he was also 'poor' with 80% of his tackle attempts missed.

    That is a genuine concern. Laumape made him his bitch, although he wouldn't be the first or last.



  • @rancid-schnitzel Yeah I'm not doubting his other skills tho, and he is a worthy AB squad member, but D his Achilles. Most 10s are not great, with the tanks that come their way, but he was even being hidden on D in some set ups like Oz teams do. Not good IMO.



  • @machpants said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:

    Razor about Mo'unga "...he was tough on defence..." & "Now he is brave on D..."; he maybe 'tough' and 'brave' but he was also 'poor' with 80% of his tackle attempts missed.

    Let's be fair. Not everyone can be Henry Honiball.



  • BB has missed an average of 1.7 tackles per game
    RM has missed an average of 1.8 tackles per game
    DM has missed an average of 1.9 tackles per game

    Sopoaga and Jantjes are the worst at 2.7 and 2.8 respectively



  • @taniwharugby said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:

    BB has missed an average of 1.7 tackles per game
    RM has missed an average of 1.8 tackles per game
    DM has missed an average of 1.9 tackles per game

    Sopoaga and Jantjes are the worst at 2.7 and 2.8 respectively

    So Richie’s defense isn’t a “genuine concern” then



  • @sammyc he has missed less tackles than both BB and DM, but as a % his missed tackles is alot higher, as he probably isnt required to make as many as the other 2, who have played alot more minutes too.

    BUt simply comparing stats is never a great way to compare.

    RM 22/57
    DM 28/75
    BB 27/73



  • Yup he is hidden on defence, like Quade/Foley/etc - not the ABs way.



  • @machpants are we 100% sure Dmac defended in the line at 10 everytime vs the French?

    Dmac doesn't have a tick over RM when comes to defence imo. Yes both of them need improvement in this area


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