All Blacks v Springboks



  • Re the comments about offside and Faf, I had a look at the last 5 minutes again to see where the AR call of offside was and it was actually marginal (probably why Nige ignored it). That was with me watching the AR when he clicked his microphone to talk. What was noticeable was that Faf was actually working hard to stay onside and not concede a penalty. It was Le Roux that was constantly offside shutting down thought of spreading the ball to Ioane.

    The ABs should have deliberately run at him, brought him into the game and claimed the penalty (and probably Red Card)



  • @bones said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @mg welcome aboard. Cracking start to kick off with replying to and critiquing your own posts.

    To be fair that's something we should all be doing on here. Especially me.





  • @machpants fuck his videos are irritating. Only a spastic flashes all text for less than a human can read the words.



  • I love them, watch it twice - second time for all the silly labels



  • @machpants "showcasing Wales levels of surname shallowness". Spat coffee.



  • @mn5 it's mainly a big circlejerk anyway, I wouldn't worry.



  • Should we be concerned about our inability to win the close games? Contrary to the bs spouted by the media that this team has hardly been tested and placed under pressure, they actually have been under pressure quite often in recent history.

    Over the last two years, this team have only managed to get the positive outcome 50% of the time in tight contests, not what you would expect from an AB team, especially one with so much talent. Here's a list of the games during that time that could have gone either way.

    Wellington 2017 (loss to the BIL)
    Auckland 2017 (draw with the BIL)
    Dunedin 2017 (beat Australia)
    Durban 2017 (beat the Boks)
    Brisbane 2017 (loss to Australia)
    Edinburgh 2017 (beat Scotland)
    Cardiff 2017 (beat Wales)
    Wellington 2018 (loss to the Boks)

    That's played eight, four wins, one draw and three losses.



  • @akan004 cherry pick to make the sky fall?

    how about looking at it like this. in 21 tests we are 17-1-3. In 13 of those tests we have hosed them.

    We lost a game where we had 14 blokes for 3/4s of the game
    We lost a dead rubber Bledisloe away.
    We lost one of the best tests in years.

    You know, now i think about it, we are 0-3 where we have scored less points than the opposition. That's not what you expect from a team with this much talent.

    Try looking at it this way. We never, ever lose big. if it's a loss, it's by a bee's dick. We are balls deep in every game we play. That's a pretty sweet position to be in.



  • @mariner4life How have I cherry picked? I have simply gone through the close games over the last two years and reported the results. Granted we were down to 14 against the BIL but we were also up by 9 points in that game heading into the last 20 minutes. Should have closed that out. Ditto with Auckland the next week.

    Bear in mind, we have had three poor results at home over a 15 month period. That's unheard of in recent times. Not as sweet as you make it out to be.



  • because 3 from 21 is the real figure, not 3 from 8 with some arbitrary margin cut-off.

    How many did we lose by 10+?



  • @mariner4life I am judging how a team responds to pressure, and therefore looking at the tight games is the only way to get a true gauge of that.



  • Seems a fair enough sub-set to me, and a potentially interesting discussion starting point.



  • Whereas i see every game as pressure. We were under the pump in Sydney, down 7-0 with Aussies hammering us. We went bang before half time, bang after time, and blew the game open. We win by heaps, and you don't count it. Great response.

    Pressure in test matches is not just the last 10 minutes.

    And even in those metrics you have decided are dire, look at the individual games. On the weekend we were one stuck pass from bailing ourselves out. In the Lions series a spurious ref decision changes a probable win to a draw (having executed a very nice play to give us that opportunity). The Lions test we lost was another fairly innocuous penalty to lose it.



  • Interesting take



  • Some fair enough points you raised, but I still maintain that the pressure experienced in the last ten to fifteen minutes in a tight Test is far more intense than at the 40th minute mark. Added to that, this Aussie team seems incapable of keeping up with us in the last quarter of the game unlike the Boks and the BIL. I'm not saying we are a bunch of no-hopers who crumble under pressure , but I think there are signs that this team may not be as composed as some of our prior teams. I may very well be wrong but I think it's fair to raise this as a discussion point.



  • I think if you really want to do some analysis you need to look at all the tests over that period, look at the HT/FT scores as well, because IIRC there have been a number we have been down at half time and end up winning comfortably, but not included in your 'close matches' analysis, surely they have dealt with the pressure in those games?



  • @akan004 said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    Some fair enough points you raised, but I still maintain that the pressure experienced in the last ten to fifteen minutes in a tight Test is far more intense than what happens at 40th minute mark. Added to that, this Aussie team seems incapable of keeping up with us in the last quarter of the game unlike the Boks and the BIL. I'm not saying we are a bunch of no-hopers who crumble under pressure , but I think there are signs that this team may not be as composed as some of our prior teams. I may very well be wrong but I think it's fair to raise this as a discussion point.

    i prefer to look at how the game ended. Were we in a position to win it? Or were we stuck at our own end with no chance?

    The Bok game, and the drawn Lions test, we were down the right end, and only some great defense held us out. We weren't clueless how to win, or choking under the pressure, we were beaten by a team that did the right thing for just long enough. It happens.

    I would be more worried if we were getting blown out of the water in those last 10 minutes.

    What i find more interesting is how often we lose when we don't score 22 points. Since the start of 2015 we have failed to score 22 points 8 times. We lost 5 of those, and drew one.



  • @mariner4life there were deals in the Lions test too...



  • @mariner4life said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @akan004 cherry pick to make the sky fall?

    how about looking at it like this. in 21 tests we are 17-1-3. In 13 of those tests we have hosed them.

    We lost a game where we had 14 blokes for 3/4s of the game
    We lost a dead rubber Bledisloe away.
    We lost one of the best tests in years.

    You know, now i think about it, we are 0-3 where we have scored less points than the opposition. That's not what you expect from a team with this much talent.

    Try looking at it this way. We never, ever lose big. if it's a loss, it's by a bee's dick. We are balls deep in every game we play. That's a pretty sweet position to be in.

    What you say is true, except the implication that somehow winning big a lot is good.

    Having a situation of lots of big wins does not reduce our chances of losing. Our winning % has not changed just because the size of the victories has.

    The thing is that each game we win by 20 points is not much practice on to how to win hard games. I think that's the point of the original post.

    We tend to crack "inexplicably" in exactly the same way. An AB team expecting another romp gets a hard time by an opponent who defends sturdily and does not let our counter-attack get going.



  • If we finish tight games the way we did this test then we'll win far more than we lose. We were absolutely dominating the final quarter, the Boks defended for their lives but still needed a fair slice of luck to avoid defeat. As @mariner4life says, if we were camped on our own line with no chance of victory that would be concerning, but as it stands we pretty much always finish the stronger team.

    If we can avoid conceding 31 points to 5 in the middle period then I think we should be OK.



  • @chester-draws said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @mariner4life said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @akan004 cherry pick to make the sky fall?

    how about looking at it like this. in 21 tests we are 17-1-3. In 13 of those tests we have hosed them.

    We lost a game where we had 14 blokes for 3/4s of the game
    We lost a dead rubber Bledisloe away.
    We lost one of the best tests in years.

    You know, now i think about it, we are 0-3 where we have scored less points than the opposition. That's not what you expect from a team with this much talent.

    Try looking at it this way. We never, ever lose big. if it's a loss, it's by a bee's dick. We are balls deep in every game we play. That's a pretty sweet position to be in.

    What you say is true, except the implication that somehow winning big a lot is good.

    Say what? It's bad? Since when?



  • @akan004 said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    Copied this from Nigel Yalden's facebook page re BBBR.

    "Trust me mate, he's had a scan, even they say he hasn't. Reliably informed that he spend most of yesterday's training session running and down stair in Westpac Stadium. Picking that would jar the buggery out of any shoulder, so can't be too bad - we are inquiring though mate."

    Any more news from Nigel RE BBBR?



  • @unite said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @akan004 said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    Copied this from Nigel Yalden's facebook page re BBBR.

    "Trust me mate, he's had a scan, even they say he hasn't. Reliably informed that he spend most of yesterday's training session running and down stair in Westpac Stadium. Picking that would jar the buggery out of any shoulder, so can't be too bad - we are inquiring though mate."

    Any more news from Nigel RE BBBR?

    Nothing new per his fb page.



  • @booboo said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @chester-draws said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @mariner4life said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @akan004 cherry pick to make the sky fall?

    how about looking at it like this. in 21 tests we are 17-1-3. In 13 of those tests we have hosed them.

    We lost a game where we had 14 blokes for 3/4s of the game
    We lost a dead rubber Bledisloe away.
    We lost one of the best tests in years.

    You know, now i think about it, we are 0-3 where we have scored less points than the opposition. That's not what you expect from a team with this much talent.

    Try looking at it this way. We never, ever lose big. if it's a loss, it's by a bee's dick. We are balls deep in every game we play. That's a pretty sweet position to be in.

    What you say is true, except the implication that somehow winning big a lot is good.

    Say what? It's bad? Since when?

    Winning isn't bad. Just that winning big isn't necessarily better than winning small.

    Our recent massive victories over the Boks was not good preparation for the last game.

    We have a game plan that I think tends to magnify our strengths and our weaknesses. When we play well we win by lots. But we equally come unstuck when it doesn't work.

    I'd prefer a game plan that moved away from this emphasis on counter-attack, and assuming we wear our opposition down. I'd like to see us able to work on penetrating solid defences.

    Because when we hit the 2019 RWC you can bet no-one, crazy Australians aside, will attempt to beat us playing open rugby.



  • @chester-draws said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @booboo said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @chester-draws said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @mariner4life said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @akan004 cherry pick to make the sky fall?

    how about looking at it like this. in 21 tests we are 17-1-3. In 13 of those tests we have hosed them.

    We lost a game where we had 14 blokes for 3/4s of the game
    We lost a dead rubber Bledisloe away.
    We lost one of the best tests in years.

    You know, now i think about it, we are 0-3 where we have scored less points than the opposition. That's not what you expect from a team with this much talent.

    Try looking at it this way. We never, ever lose big. if it's a loss, it's by a bee's dick. We are balls deep in every game we play. That's a pretty sweet position to be in.

    What you say is true, except the implication that somehow winning big a lot is good.

    Say what? It's bad? Since when?

    Winning isn't bad. Just that winning big isn't necessarily better than winning small.

    Our recent massive victories over the Boks was not good preparation for the last game.

    We have a game plan that I think tends to magnify our strengths and our weaknesses. When we play well we win by lots. But we equally come unstuck when it doesn't work.

    I'd prefer a game plan that moved away from this emphasis on counter-attack, and assuming we wear our opposition down. I'd like to see us able to work on penetrating solid defences.

    Because when we hit the 2019 RWC you can bet no-one, crazy Australians aside, will attempt to beat us playing open rugby.

    But history has shown us that teams step up at the World Cup and a well organised, determined defence can be really hard to break down without taking a few risks. The All Blacks showed they could score 6 tries against such a defence without the defence every really crumbling.

    Hansen's message to J Barrett and A Smith (for it was they who took the bad decisions that led to tries) is not don't take quick throw-ins or don't take tap penalties . It will be don't take quick throw-ins from a kick that left the whole Bok defensive line in your face and don't take tap penalties when there is no huge gap to exploit. The whole mantra of the ABs since Henry took over is to make decisions based on what you see - the mantra is not "put away the razzle-dazzle until you're desperate". There will be mistakes playing like that but by forcing the opposition defence to make tough decisions under pressure eventually the gap will appear and the tries will come.



  • Be nice if that win got a few more Bok players keen to stay at home, rather than miss the opportunity to play the ABs...imagine how gutted these 2 guys will be not being able to step up for the next match AT HOME in front of thier own fans.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/107262687/springboks-lose-five-players-for-all-blacks-rematch-in-pretoria



  • What is the latest on World Rugby enforced player availability?

    Do internationals still take precedence and these players are choosing not to play? Or is that the club's contract can overrule international matches?

    I thought the rugby championship was in the official window and clubs couldn't refuse to release players?



  • I guess they are "choosing" not to play. Same as many PI players "choose" to turn down international honours when playing in France. However some of them were signed on when SA didn't pick overseas players so you can see how their clubs would be a bit miffed, the fact they'd be there during the international windows was probably reflected in their contract money.

    @Chester-Draws "Winning isn't bad. Just that winning big isn't necessarily better than winning small.

    Our recent massive victories over the Boks was not good preparation for the last game."

    That makes no sense at all, our previous game we won, just, by one point - and we should have lost.



  • @davesofthunder said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    What is the latest on World Rugby enforced player availability?

    Do internationals still take precedence and these players are choosing not to play? Or is that the club's contract can overrule international matches?

    I thought the rugby championship was in the official window and clubs couldn't refuse to release players?

    3 Matches in the June Global Release Period and 3 Matches in the November Global Release Period.

    For inter-hemisphere availability for matches outside those Global Release Periods the club would need to agree to release the player.



  • @davesofthunder said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    What is the latest on World Rugby enforced player availability?

    Do internationals still take precedence and these players are choosing not to play? Or is that the club's contract can overrule international matches?

    I thought the rugby championship was in the official window and clubs couldn't refuse to release players?

    The TRC (and the 6 nations) are not in the international window. Never have been.

    That's why a pre-requisite to be included in the competition is that the nation has home based professional rugby so they have control of player availability. Hence Argentina joining TRC only after Sanzar increased SR to include Jaguares. Hence why a PI nation will never be included



  • @kiwipie said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @chester-draws said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @booboo said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @chester-draws said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @mariner4life said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @akan004 cherry pick to make the sky fall?

    how about looking at it like this. in 21 tests we are 17-1-3. In 13 of those tests we have hosed them.

    We lost a game where we had 14 blokes for 3/4s of the game
    We lost a dead rubber Bledisloe away.
    We lost one of the best tests in years.

    You know, now i think about it, we are 0-3 where we have scored less points than the opposition. That's not what you expect from a team with this much talent.

    Try looking at it this way. We never, ever lose big. if it's a loss, it's by a bee's dick. We are balls deep in every game we play. That's a pretty sweet position to be in.

    What you say is true, except the implication that somehow winning big a lot is good.

    Say what? It's bad? Since when?

    Winning isn't bad. Just that winning big isn't necessarily better than winning small.

    Our recent massive victories over the Boks was not good preparation for the last game.

    We have a game plan that I think tends to magnify our strengths and our weaknesses. When we play well we win by lots. But we equally come unstuck when it doesn't work.

    I'd prefer a game plan that moved away from this emphasis on counter-attack, and assuming we wear our opposition down. I'd like to see us able to work on penetrating solid defences.

    Because when we hit the 2019 RWC you can bet no-one, crazy Australians aside, will attempt to beat us playing open rugby.

    But history has shown us that teams step up at the World Cup and a well organised, determined defence can be really hard to break down without taking a few risks. The All Blacks showed they could score 6 tries against such a defence without the defence every really crumbling.

    Hansen's message to J Barrett and A Smith (for it was they who took the bad decisions that led to tries) is not don't take quick throw-ins or don't take tap penalties . It will be don't take quick throw-ins from a kick that left the whole Bok defensive line in your face and don't take tap penalties when there is no huge gap to exploit. The whole mantra of the ABs since Henry took over is to make decisions based on what you see - the mantra is not "put away the razzle-dazzle until you're desperate". There will be mistakes playing like that but by forcing the opposition defence to make tough decisions under pressure eventually the gap will appear and the tries will come.

    I agree KP. People were saying there were similarities with Cardiff. Rubbish.

    Cardiff we struggled to score points. Last Saturday we looked likely throughout and as we saw crossed the line 6 times. We kept attacking when the pressure was on which has been a successful formula. We made mistakes and whilst disappointing, it was nothing like Cardiff where we looked rattled and disorganised closing that out.



  • Who is the defence coach at the moment? They've shipped a few points over the last few games.



  • @toddy Scott McLeod...?



  • Anyone got stats from the test?

    In that second half we really mixed up the lineout jumpers. Value of having 4 genuine reliable options.



  • @act-crusader

    0_1537508011482_00ef48f6-b445-447f-bb84-cc1110944104-image.png

    0_1537508149537_47f99e71-0d75-4b0e-a1f4-7dfc62300a2d-image.png

    TA - try assist
    LB - line break
    LBA - line break assists
    RUN - runs
    RM - run metres
    OFF - offloads
    TB - tackle busts
    LOW - line-outs won

    Source: Fox Sports



  • **"There was no such joy a week later against the fired-up South Africans and Hansen had to go back to the 2007 World Cup quarter-final defeat to France for the last time he saw such a lack of awareness from his men.

    "Our game management was next door to zero … that was our biggest problem," he said. "No one's going to get hung out to dry for us losing. We just have to pick up on the little things.

    "I think back to 2007 as the last time I can think of the game that we so poorly managed. It was the pressure of the scoreboard and the pressure of the event and this time the same thing happened.

    "We got really individualistic and tried to do it all by ourselves. All we had to do was take a big breath and maybe take a shot at goal in the 66th minute and that gives you three points and maybe get a try and that puts you in front. That's one example.

    "A dropped goal wouldn't be bad either would it, and we couldn't do one of those in 2007 because it's not the thing that the five-eighth at that time is used to doing. It's not one that Beauden [Barrett] has done, I don't think he's ever got one [in tests]."**

    Pretty damning from Hansen about leadership and management there!



  • Machpants said:

    **"There was no such joy a week later against the fired-up South Africans and Hansen had to go back to the 2007 World Cup quarter-final defeat to France for the last time he saw such a lack of awareness from his men.

    "Our game management was next door to zero … that was our biggest problem," he said. "No one's going to get hung out to dry for us losing. We just have to pick up on the little things.

    "I think back to 2007 as the last time I can think of the game that we so poorly managed. It was the pressure of the scoreboard and the pressure of the event and this time the same thing happened.

    "We got really individualistic and tried to do it all by ourselves. All we had to do was take a big breath and maybe take a shot at goal in the 66th minute and that gives you three points and maybe get a try and that puts you in front. That's one example.

    "A dropped goal wouldn't be bad either would it, and we couldn't do one of those in 2007 because it's not the thing that the five-eighth at that time is used to doing. It's not one that Beauden [Barrett] has done, I don't think he's ever got one [in tests]."**

    Pretty damning from Hansen about leadership and management there!

    Yeah pretty brutal assessment there. The fact is we did well to get back in the game after gifting them a big lead but when it came to the "championship minutes" we ch ch chok....fell short.
    Similar situation to the last Lions test. Despite getting fucked over by the dodgy non penalty call we still should have closed that game out.

    Really hope they can use this loss to get that hard edge where not only can we blow teams off the park after 50mins but if it comes down to the last 10 we march down field and put the game to bed. That is what that 2011-2015 team was so good at.



  • @bones Nerves




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