Cricket: NZ vs England



  • The rain is heavy now, and only getting worse later this afternoon. They won't be back on the field.



  • From cricinfo:

    Williamson's hundred was the 299th century for NZ in Tests and now Taylor gets the 300th ton.



  • So Kane and Taylor now have 40 test tons between them. The next best pair would be Crowe and Wright with 17 and 12 respectively for a total of 29. Alternatively if you allow one partner to be repeated you could have Baz and Kane and Taylor and Kane

    Just to reiterate ham special this bunch is, we have three of our top 5 test centuries makers, one more in the top 10, plus Nicholls two tons away from the top 10.

    By the time we get to Ross's final test (my guess at the first of our current lineup to retire), we will probably have 5 of our top 6 in the top 10 for most NZ test centuries.



  • 150 test runs for Taylor to move to the top of the ladder for NZ.

    Interesting to see how high (and low) some players are on this list. Southee with more test match runs than Styris, Sinclair, and Jeff Crowe among others.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/batting/most_runs_career.html?class=1;id=5;type=team



  • @Donsteppa

    It really is a disgrace how low Tim Southee's test average is. He should really be pushing 30 not 20.



  • @Cyclops said in Cricket: NZ vs England:

    @Donsteppa

    It really is a disgrace how low Tim Southee's test average is. He should really be pushing 30 not 20.

    ah, now it's summer!



  • @Donsteppa

    Also, there are 14 guys on that list with a 40+ average and six of them (counting Colin de Grandhomme) are in this side.



  • I know this appears to be hindsight but I wasn't even slightly worried that we would lose this match.

    Days gone by we would have capitulated but this team isn't that flaky team pre McCullum era



  • @Siam said in Cricket: NZ vs England:

    Poms'll have to roll us in about less than 50 overs tomorrow to win.

    If they do, all credit to them and we'll have to sing Led Zepps "Nobody's fault but mine" all the way to Perth.

    Up to our best in Kane and Ross to complete the series win by batting the entire 1st session ( he types jinxingly!)

    A few more of those jinxes please!



  • @mariner4life said in Cricket: NZ vs England:

    @Cyclops said in Cricket: NZ vs England:

    @Donsteppa

    It really is a disgrace how low Tim Southee's test average is. He should really be pushing 30 not 20.

    ah, now it's summer!

    The staples of a kiwi summer; The four B's

    Beach, beers, BBQ's and bitching about Tim Southee's batting average.



  • @Hooroo said in Cricket: NZ vs England:

    I know this appears to be hindsight but I wasn't even slightly worried that we would lose this match.

    Days gone by we would have capitulated but this team isn't that flaky team pre McCullum era

    I doubt we'll ever truly rid ourselves of those shudders 😀



  • Only three innings per match and 21 vs 30 wickets taken?



  • @Donsteppa

    Christ, how far ahead of every other Wicket keeper is Watling? Look at Parore and Smith by comparison 😧

    What was McCullum's record as a keeper?



  • @Hooroo said in Cricket: NZ vs England:

    Days gone by we would have capitulated but this team isn't that flaky team pre McCullum era

    I hope we return to the days where we won tests in Australia pre-McCullum.



  • @gt12 said in Cricket: NZ vs England:

    @Donsteppa

    Christ, how far ahead of every other Wicket keeper is Watling? Look at Parore and Smith by comparison 😧

    What was McCullum's record as a keeper?

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/37737.html?class=1;filter=advanced;keeper=1;orderby=default;template=results;type=allround

    Pretty good, although the batting is not as good as when he was not keeper.

    2803 runs in 52 matches, average 34.18, 5 centuries.



  • After the hype before the tour started Archer ended up with 2-209 in the series. The Duke ball and juicy pitches obviously make a big difference.



  • @Godder

    Wow, so Watling is heads and shoulders in our top team then. Good on that man.



  • @gt12 said in Cricket: NZ vs England:

    @Godder

    Wow, so Watling is heads and shoulders in our top team then. Good on that man.

    The only question you'd have to ask as the selector is whether you want Watling who will dig you out if your top order is in trouble or Baz coming in at 300/5 and torching a bowling attack that's been worn down.

    For all normal purposes, Watling is a dream keeper. Almost like clockwork you can rely on him to dig us out of a hole. The only weakness is that he doesn't seem comfortable coming out when we're already in a dominant position. I think it doesn't suit his game and as a result of his selflessness he tries to play a different way to try and progress the game and in doesn't work for him.

    For a side with an all time top 6, Baz just slips in because we're much less likely to need a rescue job. For any real selection, Watling is the man for the job.



  • I'd pick Watling for a batting keeper, but if I was selecting a technical keeper with no regard to batting, I'd pick Smith.



  • @Godder said in Cricket: NZ vs England

    I'd pick Watling for a batting keeper, but if I was selecting a technical keeper with no regard to batting, I'd pick Smith.

    I used to think upon those lines, but in the cold light of day Smith's keeping to spinners (as opposed to dibbly dobblies) was nothing better than average which was why Lees was always in the picture as an alternative. Watling is technically proficient enough to stand up to the medium pacers as he has, while his keeping in the sub-continent and UAE has been more than serviceable. For pure technical aptitude and athleticism, I'd actually choose Parore over Smith, because then you remove the fluffbunny factor.



  • I can't remember Baz ever not performing with gloves.



  • @Siam said in Cricket: NZ vs England:

    I can't remember Baz ever not performing with gloves.

    CWC 2003 Super Six elimination game against India.

    I'm probably the biggest Baz knocker out there but he was always pretty solid with the gloves. He kept well to Vettori, and aside from Bond who he only kept to very early in his career he never really had to deal with anyone who bowled with any real pace or turn.

    The late 00s, early 10s side would have been better served with him keeping more if his back allowed.



  • @rotated you'll have to remind me which nz keeper had to keep to pace or turn, ever 😀



  • @Cyclops said in Cricket: NZ vs England:

    @gt12 said in Cricket: NZ vs England:

    @Godder

    Wow, so Watling is heads and shoulders in our top team then. Good on that man.

    The only question you'd have to ask as the selector is whether you want Watling who will dig you out if your top order is in trouble or Baz coming in at 300/5 and torching a bowling attack that's been worn down.

    For all normal purposes, Watling is a dream keeper. Almost like clockwork you can rely on him to dig us out of a hole. The only weakness is that he doesn't seem comfortable coming out when we're already in a dominant position. I think it doesn't suit his game and as a result of his selflessness he tries to play a different way to try and progress the game and in doesn't work for him.

    For a side with an all time top 6, Baz just slips in because we're much less likely to need a rescue job. For any real selection, Watling is the man for the job.

    I'd go with Watling.
    If we have our all time top 6, we would be playing against the all time top bowlers from others teams too.
    We will definitely find ourselves in trouble against all time test bowlers from other nations.

    BJ averages 43.10 as designated keeper, compared to Baz with 34.18



  • @mimic said in Cricket: NZ vs England:

    @Cyclops said in Cricket: NZ vs England:

    @gt12 said in Cricket: NZ vs England:

    @Godder

    Wow, so Watling is heads and shoulders in our top team then. Good on that man.

    The only question you'd have to ask as the selector is whether you want Watling who will dig you out if your top order is in trouble or Baz coming in at 300/5 and torching a bowling attack that's been worn down.

    For all normal purposes, Watling is a dream keeper. Almost like clockwork you can rely on him to dig us out of a hole. The only weakness is that he doesn't seem comfortable coming out when we're already in a dominant position. I think it doesn't suit his game and as a result of his selflessness he tries to play a different way to try and progress the game and in doesn't work for him.

    For a side with an all time top 6, Baz just slips in because we're much less likely to need a rescue job. For any real selection, Watling is the man for the job.

    I'd go with Watling.
    If we have our all time top 6, we would be playing against the all time top bowlers from others teams too.
    We will definitely find ourselves in trouble against all time test bowlers from other nations.

    Fair enough. I don't think there's any black cap with a more complex legacy to assess than Baz, except maybe Chris Cairns.



  • So Jofra is actually really really quick and outer radar was just making him look slow and disinterested.

    How did our guys speeds stack up against Archer? Weren't they similar? So if Archer is actually bowling at 150 clicks when the radar says 130 how unbelievably quick woul Lochie Ferguson be with a "proper" radar...

    Or was he struggling with having to grind through a test match.

    Seeme quite an articulate and personable bloke but can't escape the feeling he was over hyped, over bowled and over here.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-7755637/JOFRA-ARCHER-Kiwi-speed-guns-definitely-faulty.html



  • @booboo said in Cricket: NZ vs England:

    So Jofra is actually really really quick and outer radar was just making him look slow and disinterested.

    How did our guys speeds stack up against Archer? Weren't they similar? So if Archer is actually bowling at 150 clicks when the radar says 130 how unbelievably quick woul Lochie Ferguson be with a "proper" radar...

    Or was he struggling with having to grind through a test match.

    Seeme quite an articulate and personable bloke but can't escape the feeling he was over hyped, over bowled and over here.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-7755637/JOFRA-ARCHER-Kiwi-speed-guns-definitely-faulty.html

    Our radar guns being slow isn't a new one. I've heard that from plenty of kiwi bowlers too.

    Doesn't really stack up when you had Archer breaking the 150 mark during the test series though (does he reckon that was 160+?)



  • I always thought the Aussie ones were quick. I remember Ponting being clocked at 130!



  • I think it depends on the method used.If clocked out of the hand with a radar you will get a much higher reading than off the pitch. If (as I think most TV stats are now, it is the calc of time and distance between release and bat (or crease) then it will depend on the length being bowled and the hardness of the pitch.



  • The reality is that despite all those stats the only time we have had a series win is when we have had a bowler firing at their peak (ably supported).
    I can't see us getting 20 wickets at a reasonable cost without one bowler really singing. A Bond or Paddles in this lineup would be the icing on the cake.



  • @mariner4life said in Cricket: NZ vs England:

    I always thought the Aussie ones were quick. I remember Ponting being clocked at 130!

    A commentator a year or two back said that they have 3 guns. The Aussies were using the fastest one, others like us use the middle one. So yeah, method used is a big factor.

    You really would think that they would standardise things. It should be the same between bowlers in the same test, but that could also be worldwide.



  • My point being is our guys were bowling the same speed as him.



  • @booboo Yeah they were. He was also bowling at the same speed (or faster) as the Aussies in the ashes wasn't he? Depends how they measure. It seems that the Aussies and Poms might be overstating things a bit and we aren't talking it up so much.



  • @Bovidae said in Cricket: NZ vs England:

    After the hype before the tour started Archer ended up with 2-209 in the series. The Duke ball and juicy pitches obviously make a big difference.

    Besides a couple of hostile spells to Smith, he was a bit meh in the Ashes.



  • Perhaps Archer should think more about taking wickets, instead of what a number says on the TV coverage.


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