England v Wales



  • @Siam said in England v Wales:

    @Kirwan the whole Marler thing creeps me out big time. Throw the book at him and get this nonsense out of rugby

    One of the drawbacks to getting kids involved in our sport is the perceived culture. Years ago in NZ it was the boozing and thuggery that needed cleaning up.
    I always found it quite strange that rugby has a culture that involves some strange behaviours around nudity. I've seen naked laps of the field as punishment, dick shaped drinking vessels for compulsory skulls, awrds handed out to biggest dick in the showers etc etc.
    It is very 'laddish' and has largely died out in NZ due to the numbers of Polynesian players that won't participate in these 'games'. From what I saw in the UK it is still part of the game at certain levels, especially in areas with a contingent of ex public schoolboys in the clubs.
    It's just a weird thing to have associated with your sport.



  • will be interesting to see what sort of punishment is handed down to him.

    So will be about the action, as there didnt appear to be malice or intent to injure or didnt appear to cause any pain, it looked like a, well, for want of a better word, playful grab...but a seriously messed up action...



  • @taniwharugby said in England v Wales:

    will be interesting to see what sort of punishment is handed down to him.

    So will be about the action, as there didnt appear to be malice or intent to injure or didnt appear to cause any pain, it looked like a, well, for want of a better word, playful grab...but a seriously messed up action...

    I think the clause is about 'unsportsmanlike behaviour' rather than injury or pain.
    No doubt they will be very careful on the ruling to leave no room for the QCs to charge in.



  • @Crucial but you could be charged with that for calling someone a f#cking dick as well as touching his...



  • On a different matter, what was the Lawes tackle on AWJ situation that has now been deemed RC worthy? What was the on field decision?



  • @taniwharugby said in England v Wales:

    @Crucial but you could be charged with that for calling someone a f#cking dick as well as touching his...

    Yep, same category as spitting and hair-pulling. First rule to dispute though is whether the citing officer was correct that the act met the RC threshold.
    Given the public reaction and repute of the game that will be a difficult one to push aside.



  • For the good of the game, Marler and Eddie need to be sanctioned.



  • Actually this could get interesting as although Marler has been cited for an alleged infringement of Law 9.27( A Player must not do anything that is against the spirit of good sportsmanship – Hair pulling or grabbing; Spitting at anyone; Grabbing, twisting or squeezing the genitals.....) the regulations, or rather the appendix that outlines the sanctions expressly says "Testicle grabbing or twisting or squeezing" rather than genitals.
    From what I saw it looked like Marler grabbed the meat rather than the veg.
    Should they win that technicality then the act falls under "Any other acts (not previously referred to) which are contrary to good sportsmanship" which has a medium entry point of 7 weeks rather than 18





  • @Bones said in England v Wales:

    oh, just based on that photo, he could be in trouble. He's not even looking at the balls, that's reckless





  • I do find it hilarious that Piers Morgan finds other people exhausting.



  • I'm guessing Piers boarded...



  • Lawes cited for the following. Could be saved by missing (?) contact with his shoulder?

    https://i.imgur.com/tvoQ7PH.mp4



  • @Tim looked like there was an initial contact with the head but more a brushing contact



  • @Tim said in England v Wales:

    Lawes cited for the following. Could be saved by missing (?) contact with his shoulder?

    https://i.imgur.com/tvoQ7PH.mp4

    see, for all the chat over the past couple of pages of things that should be stamped out of the game, this is what they should be looking at.

    Lawes has one intention, and one intention only there, to hurt his opponent. The tackle is already made, he wants nothing more than to smash the other guy. Shoulder tucked, it's luck rather than management that AWJ didn't get fucked up. Suspend, send a message. This kind of tackle is so easy to take out of the game.



  • @mariner4life said in England v Wales:

    @Tim said in England v Wales:

    Lawes cited for the following. Could be saved by missing (?) contact with his shoulder?

    https://i.imgur.com/tvoQ7PH.mp4

    see, for all the chat over the past couple of pages of things that should be stamped out of the game, this is what they should be looking at.

    Lawes has one intention, and one intention only there, to hurt his opponent. The tackle is already made, he wants nothing more than to smash the other guy. Shoulder tucked, it's luck rather than management that AWJ didn't get fucked up. Suspend, send a message. This kind of tackle is so easy to take out of the game.

    Using the 'always illegal' concept, he was leading with the shoulder and was never going to do anything except smash with it. Will get a low end start point for only brushing contact although going just by that clip AWJ wasn't too impressed with what contact was made.
    Hopefully his ban will raise more comment from Eddie and double whatever he has coming



  • @Crucial said in England v Wales:

    WR (or is it 6N?) don’t do themselves any favours when it comes to public perception do they?
    A whole day to address the question of Marlers actions and nothing forthcoming.
    I get that it was a Sunday but that shouldn’t play any part when there are citing deadlines.
    They should have front-footed this even if it was just to say that the citing officials will be looking at it and have until x to report back.
    Instead they let the media run with allsorts.
    I don’t know many jobs where doing what he did wouldn’t result in severe disciplinary action. To act like “it’s part of the game” does rugby a disservice. It may be part of the public schoolboy culture that still hangs around the sport in England but that’s all the more reason to act

    This really pisses me off because, when I played, a scrotum grab immediately led to a dust-up - it was not part of the game at all and, without exception, caused a fight (some minor some very major). I would expect that a scrotum grab would be a yellow card offence, but I don't know if it warrants a ban.



  • @Crucial said in England v Wales:

    It's just a weird thing to have associated with your sport.

    Definitely. Mrs Meldrew's niece & boyfriend called it "gross".

    It just ain't a good look and can't be laughed off as "part of the game".



  • The Marler case is super interesting in how it has divided people.

    Its an odd one in that as some have said on here already you do that at amateur level its a full on brawl and nobody would have an issue with it. I have seen fights start over someone accidentally catching a low blow. But never when I was playing did I see anyone give someone a tickle up.

    But the Pros can't do that like AWJ said he has to just take it? Thats crazy. I know people go on about wanting players to have personalities and not be robots. But I think some people like Marler are just trying way to hard on this front. This whole its a joke thing just falls flat when you are the only one who thinks its funny.

    As for Piers Morgan hes just being the contrarian arsehole he is. He would change his tune so quickly if this happened to one of his kids.

    I think he will get a long ban to send a message. A message that no one would have thought needed to be sent a week ago.



  • David Flatman has made a successful, and I suspect lucrative, transition from player to pundit & after dinner speaker.

    I believe Marler thinks he is both a better player and funnier person than Flatman and has been making strides in recent years to create a second career for himself.

    He's now going straight to DVD.



  • @mooshld right, but the difference being at club level - you're generally not close to or friends with the guy giving you a tickle. Not saying Marler and AWJ are friends, but they are likely to know each other very well.



  • @Tim said in England v Wales:

    Lawes cited for the following. Could be saved by missing (?) contact with his shoulder?

    https://i.imgur.com/tvoQ7PH.mp4

    Fuck me

    Owen Farrell, Tom Curry and Tuiglagi can count themselves very fucking lucky.



  • @Bones said in England v Wales:

    @mooshld right, but the difference being at club level - you're generally not close to or friends with the guy giving you a tickle. Not saying Marler and AWJ are friends, but they are likely to know each other very well.

    I see what your saying. But I suspect Marler clearly didn't know him as well as he thought he did judging by his reaction.



  • @Bones said in England v Wales:

    @mooshld right, but the difference being at club level - you're generally not close to or friends with the guy giving you a tickle. Not saying Marler and AWJ are friends, but they are likely to know each other very well.

    Fuck, bags not knowing you "very well" if that's an option with your acquaintances.

    An uninvited grab of genitals is acceptably rebutted with a punch in the head anywhere on the planet. Same with spitting.

    Don't want to get punched? Don't grope or fondle.

    Even people who know each other well wtf?



  • @Siam said in England v Wales:

    @Bones said in England v Wales:

    @mooshld right, but the difference being at club level - you're generally not close to or friends with the guy giving you a tickle. Not saying Marler and AWJ are friends, but they are likely to know each other very well.

    Fuck, bags not knowing you "very well" if that's an option with your acquaintances.

    An uninvited grab of genitals is acceptably rebutted with a punch in the head anywhere on the planet. Same with spitting.

    Don't want to get punched? Don't grope or fondle.

    Even people who know each other well wtf?

    That's cool that works for me. I'm inclined to think you're definitely in the minority if you've never had tomfoolery around dick flicks, etc.



  • @MiketheSnow said in England v Wales:

    @Tim said in England v Wales:

    Lawes cited for the following. Could be saved by missing (?) contact with his shoulder?

    https://i.imgur.com/tvoQ7PH.mp4

    Fuck me

    Owen Farrell, Tom Curry, Ken Owens, Hadleigh Parks and Tuiglagi can count themselves very fucking lucky.

    FIFY 😁



  • @Victor-Meldrew said in England v Wales:

    @Crucial said in England v Wales:

    It's just a weird thing to have associated with your sport.

    Definitely. Mrs Meldrew's niece & boyfriend called it "gross".

    It just ain't a good look and can't be laughed off as "part of the game".

    Surprised you'd care what Mrs Meldrew's boyfriend thought



  • @booboo He lives in Cornwall it is likely that niece and boyfriend are one person.



  • @Victor-Meldrew said in England v Wales:

    @Crucial said in England v Wales:

    It's just a weird thing to have associated with your sport.

    ... It just ain't a good look and can't be laughed off as "part of the game".

    I'm in agreement here, as someone else so ably put it, it's a dick move. But I don't really understand the frothing of the mouth by so many people about what amounted to a flick on the todger. It wasn't even a grab. No danger to life or limb. Just a stupid and invasive move. Some of the tackles in that game and of course the Frenchman's punch were far worse in the potential outcomes.

    Sure cite the idiot and likely sanction him but ffs tone down the hysteria (not directly aimed at you, but I reserve the right to change my mind on that).



  • Yeah, this is kind of surprising. I fully acknowledge that I'm completely outdated here (and not really bothered) but from Alun WJ stating that WR need to look into it, to Thomas feeling the need to apologise for his actions, I find this whole thing very sad indeed.

    Rather a cheeky testicle grab than a sly elbow / knee to the head in a ruck. Although I'm sure little Johnny's Mummy doesn't want little Johnny playing in a game like this, I'd expect little Johnny's Daddy to pipe up and say "boys will be boys".

    If I was Marler, I'd double down and say how disappointed I was that AWJ didn't play along with the gag ....



  • @Catogrande said in England v Wales:

    @booboo He lives in Cornwall it is likely that niece and boyfriend are one person.

    Leun a konines blewek yw an gwiasva ma......



  • @Catogrande said in England v Wales:

    But I don't really understand the frothing of the mouth by so many people about what amounted to a flick on the todger

    Yeah, a sense of perspective is needed, but the outrage is understandable - particularly in this uber-sensitive day and age.



  • @Victor-Meldrew Something about a full rabbit that pales? At least that's what I'm hoping. It's probably a threat to send Joe Marler round to touch me up.



  • @Catogrande said in England v Wales:

    Sure cite the idiot and likely sanction him but ffs tone down the hysteria

    Yep, great call.

    Question for you - do you think that's a red card on the field if it gets seen?

    I don't remember ever seeing anything like that (except Hopoate in league for a while). The reaction to Hopoate was feral as well



  • @Bones said in England v Wales:

    @Siam said in England v Wales:

    @Bones said in England v Wales:

    @mooshld right, but the difference being at club level - you're generally not close to or friends with the guy giving you a tickle. Not saying Marler and AWJ are friends, but they are likely to know each other very well.

    Fuck, bags not knowing you "very well" if that's an option with your acquaintances.

    An uninvited grab of genitals is acceptably rebutted with a punch in the head anywhere on the planet. Same with spitting.

    Don't want to get punched? Don't grope or fondle.

    Even people who know each other well wtf?

    That's cool that works for me. I'm inclined to think you're definitely in the minority if you've never had tomfoolery around dick flicks, etc.

    At Twickenham in front of an audience in the millions? Defo in the minority.

    Very little equivalence in tomfoolery in a room vs a dumb act in a televised sport looking to attract people.

    "Everyone does it" can't really apply to this situation



  • @Victor-Meldrew said in England v Wales:

    @Catogrande said in England v Wales:

    @booboo He lives in Cornwall it is likely that niece and boyfriend are one person.

    Leun a konines blewek yw an gwiasva ma......

    Sadly Google translate doesn't do Kernewek



  • This incident doesn't need comparisons to foul play causing injury. It's like spitting or abusing a ref ( both which also cause no injury - as do 90% of red cards).
    Injury or personal pain are not relevant here.
    Neither is this a zero sum situation- it's not a choice between a thug act and this - surely we can continue to stamp out all acts of unsportsmanlike behavior.

    Give him 2 to 6 weeks and make it clear that this category of behaviour is not acceptable.

    Not a lot different to spitting and name calling.

    A difference of opinion and perspective is now outrage?



  • @nzzp said in England v Wales:

    @Catogrande said in England v Wales:

    Sure cite the idiot and likely sanction him but ffs tone down the hysteria

    ...Question for you - do you think that's a red card on the field if it gets seen? ...

    I really don’t know. On the one hand it’s sort of innocuous but it’s also bang out of order. The thing is that this is not a scourge that is blighting rugby and “steps must be taken to stop this from continuing “. It’s a one off act of stupidity and by all means punish him for that but don’t pretend it’s a big issue.



  • @Catogrande said in England v Wales:

    @nzzp said in England v Wales:

    @Catogrande said in England v Wales:

    Sure cite the idiot and likely sanction him but ffs tone down the hysteria

    ...Question for you - do you think that's a red card on the field if it gets seen? ...

    I really don’t know. On the one hand it’s sort of innocuous but it’s also bang out of order. The thing is that this is not a scourge that is blighting rugby and “steps must be taken to stop this from continuing “. It’s a one off act of stupidity and by all means punish him for that but don’t pretend it’s a big issue.

    I don’t think that anyone here is saying this is a scourge that is blighting rugby. Save your argument on that front for some uneducated non fan down the pub.
    Should a message be sent though? Absolutely.
    Not a big issue, just one that should be condemned straight away to send a clear message that this isn’t part of the game.
    I do wonder that if there wasn’t an outcry whether this would have been sidestepped by not meeting the red card threshold though.


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