AB Captain



  • Right now I'm less comfortable with Cane as captain of the ABs. Much as I love him as a player and defender, I believe there are still question marks over his captaincy.
    He didn't manage to make any headway to pulling the Chiefs ailing ghost ship out of the fog in SRA , and it appears he still is plagued by issues around that brittle neck/noggin area.
    I want my ABs captain to stay on the field and rally the the troops when the chips are down. I want him to have the ear of the ref - but not as a whiny little biatch, but on a one-to-one basis which makes refs think and take note. I want my captain to take stock, to guide , lead and be calm when it matters.
    I still believe that GOAT's efforts in that 2015 WC semi against SA was one of the best captaincy displays you will see. That match could have gone either way, but for three senior players stepping up to the plate when it mattered. But I reckon GOAT's doggedness and resolve percolated down through the team - in stark contrast to many of the recent AB efforts.
    So, I'd be much more comfortable with Codie Taylor - or Patty T as AB Captain - both have played superb rugby this season, have the respect and mana - and in particular I think Patty T has really come a long way in terms of learning/game management.
    As for Sam Cane - well I think the jury is still out. We shall have to wait and see, but I hope this doesn't go down as one of Foster's experiments.



  • @Jailbreak7

    He didn't manage to make any headway to pulling the Chiefs ailing ghost ship out of the fog in SRA

    The entire Chiefs team including the coaching staff is to blame for that, Cane played well in the latter half of the comp.

    and it appears he still is plagued by issues around that brittle neck/noggin area.

    Why? Because he went down with concussion in last night's game? He was cleared and fine, no neck issues.

    I want him to have the ear of the ref - but not as a whiny little biatch, but on a one-to-one basis which makes refs think and take note. I want my captain to take stock, to guide , lead and be calm when it matters.

    Cane was the player keeping a level head in those Chiefs games, ALB, Weber and Cruden were the guys who blew up at the ref.

    As for the rest, I agree that Taylor or Tuipulotu would be fine captains, but I think Sammy is the best choice by far.



  • All the way with SJC

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  • @Yeetyaah said in AB Captain:

    @Jailbreak7

    He didn't manage to make any headway to pulling the Chiefs ailing ghost ship out of the fog in SRA

    The entire Chiefs team including the coaching staff is to blame for that, Cane played well in the latter half of the comp.

    and it appears he still is plagued by issues around that brittle neck/noggin area.

    Why? Because he went down with concussion in last night's game? He was cleared and fine.

    I want him to have the ear of the ref - but not as a whiny little biatch, but on a one-to-one basis which makes refs think and take note. I want my captain to take stock, to guide , lead and be calm when it matters.

    Cane was the player keeping a level head in those Chiefs games, ALB, Weber and Cruden were the guys who blew up at the ref.

    As for the rest, I agree that Taylor or Tuipulotu would be fine captains, but I think Sammy is the best choice by far.

    Tuipolotu would only be a temporary solution, given Retallick will come back and take his spot in the starting XV.



  • @Jailbreak7 you could look at it this way - the chiefs were dire all around him, yet he managed to keep them within a lucky bounce of winning many games and were very rarely out of it.

    Imagine what he could do in a quality AB team?



  • As long as he can keep his place in the starting XV on merit, then he's the captain.



  • @Yeetyaah said in AB Captain:

    As for the rest, I agree that Taylor or Tuipulotu would be fine captains, but I think Sammy is the best choice by far.

    Tuipolotu is a leader, but doesn't have the experience or ability to really lean on referees. McCaw didn't either, and learned, but I'd back Cane to learn that before McCaw

    also, in the ABs there are plenty of others who should be leading. Captaining at Super is a differente beast; different game, different level of players and motivation.



  • I feel it appears Gats has bought a defection of blame culture to the Chiefs



  • @taniwharugby said in AB Captain:

    I feel it appears Gats has bought a defection of blame culture to the Chiefs

    Not sure it is that bad, there's a fair bit of media beat up going on. Gats is a good coach, but just hasn't managed to get the team moving cohesively this year. Injuries haven't helped, and neither have referees. Kinda like what I said about the Blues for years - we often weren't good enough to overcome a few bad calls or pieces of bad luck. Relaly good sides (ABs, Crusaders) can get past that - so they only need a sniff to kick the door down and snatch the win.



  • @nzzp yea I agree, but I think he will have a different attitude towards that sort of thing, not the main issue, just one of them



  • Clearly, something is going wrong at the Chiefs, but Sam Cane doesn’t appear to be the problem.

    A quick look at his defensive stats for the last few games shows he is putting in the Mahi:

    Canes: 5 tackles (in 26 minutes, 2 misses)
    Crusaders: 18 (2 missed)
    Blues: 18 (no misses)
    Landers: 12 (1 miss)

    In those last three games, he led the team too. Edit: I should add that in one of those games where he gets 18, the next best is like 11. He’s out in front - he’s just not getting enough help.

    That’s not counting the ways in which they’ve used him as a battering ram on attack either.

    I imagine he’ll look forward to getting a bit more help when we get to see some All Black shirts running around.



  • i havent seen enough of the chiefs to really comment on whats going on, the two games against us could have gone either way though

    i did feel announcing him so early was just setting him up for these kinds of questions, announcing a captain along with a squad right before an AB's game at least gives them the best chance to show why they got the job



  • was Cane announced prior to the world collapsing?

    If so then i can definitely understand it. Super Rugby was its old meaningless self, Sam would have been on a management plan leading up to the incoming tours. The Chiefs would have bagged wins against overseas team, and the narrative from the RWC semi would have continued on

    it looks like a dicey play now because literally everything is different.



  • @mariner4life I thought he was announced during or just after our lockdown wasnt he? Which I (along with others) thought odd given at the time the possibility of any rugby was still up in the air.

    edit - 5 May, so still in L3 here.

    https://www.allblacks.com/news/sam-cane-named-all-blacks-captain/



  • @taniwharugby said in AB Captain:

    @mariner4life I thought he was announced during or just after our lockdown wasnt he? Which I (along with others) thought odd given at the time the possibility of any rugby was still up in the air.

    edit - 5 May, so still in L3 here.

    https://www.allblacks.com/news/sam-cane-named-all-blacks-captain/

    that late? Then that's retarded.

    EDIT: Based on the post below, then i retract this statement, please refer to my earlier one



  • There's a difference between when it was announced and when Cane was told.

    Cane was told way earlier than that.

    Sam Cane said the hardest part about being named All Blacks captain was keeping it a secret for three months.
    

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/121763511/i-said-keep-your-mouth-shut-sam-cane-let-slip-that-he-was-all-blacks-captain



  • @mariner4life I guess you think back to pre-lockdown (mid March) and 1st AB test not until June...I guess if not for CV they were probably on the verge of announcing it anyway.



  • it just seems to early....although im a fan of picking your captain from your first choice XV...earn your spot first



  • @Kiwiwomble said in AB Captain:

    it just seems to early....although im a fan of picking your captain from your first choice XV...earn your spot first

    These days the captain's role is as much off field as on though. Part of the management/leadership of the group as a whole with a lot of influence.
    You need to pick one that can carry those duties on their shoulders as well as the playing. Some young hot shot may outplay them one day but you would lose much more than you gain by swapping them out.



  • @Crucial dont get me wrong, i get that, and they have leadership groups etc

    ...its just the loosies have been such hotly contested positions...deciding so early...if that guy gets outplayed over the whole super season...it doesn't look good

    It reminds me of the Randell, Thorne, Blackadder era...too much talk about if they deserved to be there to start with



  • @Kiwiwomble said in AB Captain:

    @Crucial dont get me wrong, i get that, and they have leadership groups etc

    ...its just the loosies have been such hotly contested positions...deciding so early...if that guy gets outplayed over the whole super season...it doesn't look good

    It reminds me of the Randell, Thorne, Blackadder era...too much talk about if they deserved to be there to start with

    Who is the open side playing better than Cane? Not many, if any.
    Kirifi would be the closest but I still wouldn’t swap



  • captaincy aside?

    i think lots would at least consider Savea (26), D Hunt (25) or Papalii (22) just off the top of my head, based on current form...all younger than Cane (28) too



  • @Crucial
    Sotutu would be worth a look at 7 I think. Not generally a fan of 'get the best guys on the field, then sort the positions out', but I would like to see him have a crack there for the Blues, with Akira at 8 and Robinson at 6, Dalton covering the bench.

    I like Cane, I think dropping him in the WC was a terrible decision. Leadership group for sure, but captaincy I'm not sure of. The Chiefs have looked pretty headless.



  • @Kiwiwomble said in AB Captain:

    captaincy aside?

    i think lots would at least consider Savea (26), D Hunt (25) or Papalii (22) just off the top of my head, based on current form...all younger than Cane (28) too

    Consider? Yes.
    Replace? Not for me.

    What's age got to do with it anyway?



  • @reprobate said in AB Captain:

    @Crucial
    Sotutu would be worth a look at 7 I think.

    Now we're getting into crazy. (for the ABs discussion)



  • When I read people suggesting Cane not have the captaincy of the All Blacks and his position is under pressure I wonder what games they're watching.

    "Oh the Chiefs are terrible". What's he supposed to do, select and coach them too?



  • @Crucial you have to ask? long term planning, continuity in leadership in the case of a captain or building that shorthand between players in the case of the actual rugby



  • @reprobate said in AB Captain:

    @Crucial
    Sotutu would be worth a look at 7 I think. Not generally a fan of 'get the best guys on the field, then sort the positions out', but I would like to see him have a crack there for the Blues, with Akira at 8 and Robinson at 6, Dalton covering the bench.

    I like Cane, I think dropping him in the WC was a terrible decision. Leadership group for sure, but captaincy I'm not sure of. The Chiefs have looked pretty headless.

    Yeah I reckon Tuipulotu should be given a crack at prop. It'd be good to have a captain in the front row.

    Aaron Smith might be a good shout for hooker too with that accurate throw.



  • @Crucial said in AB Captain:

    @reprobate said in AB Captain:

    @Crucial
    Sotutu would be worth a look at 7 I think.

    Now we're getting into crazy. (for the ABs discussion)

    (that's why I put the Blues bit). Got the tools though.



  • @Kiwiwomble said in AB Captain:

    @Crucial you have to ask? long term planning, continuity in leadership in the case of a captain or building that shorthand between players in the case of the actual rugby

    Tana was 31 when he first captained in 2004. He only captained for 2 years. That was an excellent appointment.



  • @Bones said in AB Captain:

    @reprobate said in AB Captain:

    @Crucial
    Sotutu would be worth a look at 7 I think. Not generally a fan of 'get the best guys on the field, then sort the positions out', but I would like to see him have a crack there for the Blues, with Akira at 8 and Robinson at 6, Dalton covering the bench.

    I like Cane, I think dropping him in the WC was a terrible decision. Leadership group for sure, but captaincy I'm not sure of. The Chiefs have looked pretty headless.

    Yeah I reckon Tuipulotu should be given a crack at prop. It'd be good to have a captain in the front row.

    Aaron Smith might be a good shout for hooker too with that accurate throw.

    Well that's just stupid. Clearly if you start Tuipulotu at prop, you can't have Smith at 2 because his feet wouldn't touch the ground in scrums. I think the better way to go would be Jordie at hooker next to Patrick, that way you'd at least have a nice angling scrum, that'd properly mess with the oppo.



  • @KiwiMurph not arguing when its a pretty clear choice as that was from memory, not a hard and fast rule or anything, just thought a given that if given two options equal in every sense except age you'd pick the younger one given the benefits you might get from being longer in the job, might be wrong

    to be clear, not campaigning for cane to loose the job, just as likely he'll have a blinder first game up for the AB's and this is never mentioned again



  • @voodoo ok but Ardie MUST play halfback.



  • @Bones said in AB Captain:

    @voodoo ok but Ardie MUST play halfback.

    You can't put the tallest player in the sqaud at nine!



  • @Machpants said in AB Captain:

    @Bones said in AB Captain:

    @voodoo ok but Ardie MUST play halfback.

    You can't put the tallest player in the sqaud at nine!

    But he's got the tools.



  • @Bones said in AB Captain:

    @Machpants said in AB Captain:

    @Bones said in AB Captain:

    @voodoo ok but Ardie MUST play halfback.

    You can't put the tallest player in the sqaud at nine!

    But he's got the tools.

    Gobby Shite?



  • @Machpants my thoughts exactly.



  • @Kiwiwomble said in AB Captain:

    @Crucial you have to ask? long term planning, continuity in leadership in the case of a captain or building that shorthand between players in the case of the actual rugby

    He's 28 FFS NOT 38!



  • @Kiwiwomble said in AB Captain:

    @KiwiMurph not arguing when its a pretty clear choice as that was from memory, not a hard and fast rule or anything, just thought a given that if given two options equal in every sense except age you'd pick the younger one given the benefits you might get from being longer in the job, might be wrong

    to be clear, not campaigning for cane to loose the job, just as likely he'll have a blinder first game up for the AB's and this is never mentioned again

    So who's the young gun that's going to be captain?



  • @Crucial slow down here, as i say, not starting a petition, was just a comment on how weird it is having a captain announced so long before a game has been played

    it wasn't so much about a young captain, i was talking about younger guys that have stuck their hand up for the 7 jersey


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