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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="572404" data-time="1460690017">
<div>
<p>Pull your head out of your arse, having a different view to you doesn't make me self righteous."<br><br>
Erm, I never said it did. And if you think it's legitimate to criticise Islam then what exactly is your issue with these types of threads?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Because like many left wingers they have been flummoxed by the failure of a doctrine they heavily believed in. Inclusiveness despite differences and rellgious intolerance. It is a slow process for these left wing types to come to the realization that it is a religious issue, they still trot out out the 'it isnt all Muslims' mantra regardless of wether anyone else has said that it is. Some still, incredibly, say it isnt a religious issue, or it isnt an issue with Islam. But as time goes on, they are becoming more and more like the flat earth society.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>However they still have a knee jerk response that they simply cannot help. When they see anyone criticise Islam, they must go to the left wing toolbox of reflex responses.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="572400" data-time="1460688078">
<div>
<p> I've criticised Islam in this thread, I also criticise Catholicism to my Catholic mate as well. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>What do you criticise Catholicism about exactly? Le me guess the pedo priests? Ok, but if you are going to them to represent Catholicism.. do you use ISIS to represent Islam and hassle your Muslim mates about ISIS? And I would argue ISIS is lot more in line with Islamic doctrine than pedo priests are with Catholic doctrine,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Or do you actually criticise the religion? I can find lots of things to criticise Islam about and how it is ACTUALLY implemented in modern times. Want to compare Catholicism and Islam ideologies as implemented in modern times?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Because comparatively there is fuck all to complain about with Catholicism in modern times.</p> -
<p>What's with the labelling of people who have differing opinions? Is it only some aspects of opinion that define if you're a "left winger"? </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Can't people express opinions in isolation?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>What is a left winger? Terry Wright or Craig Green?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>What comfort does it provide to label people like this? Is it to belittle? If so please provide a list of favourable labels. Is a John Kirwan favourable to David Campese?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>What purpose does it serve to label people left wingers?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="572420" data-time="1460695155">
<div>
<p>What's with the labelling of people who have differing opinions? Is it only some aspects of opinion that define if you're a "left winger"? </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Can't people express opinions in isolation?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>What is a left winger? Terry Wright or Craig Green?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>What comfort does it provide to label people like this? Is it to belittle? If so please provide a list of favourable labels. Is a John Kirwan favourable to David Campese?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>What purpose does it serve to label people left wingers?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Yes SIam..... Terry Wright was a left winger.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If you need me to explain what left wing means.. you are out of luck. I cannot be bothered.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>But I am able to judge who I believe has left wing views on this board. It seems a condition that most people want to be seen as moderate and centrist, the vast majority are kidding themselves and fooling nobody else. I am not centrist, I am of right wing persuasion, I am not ashamed of that. If someone labels me a right winger.. that isnt pejorative it is most likely an accurate analysis of my posts and position on topics. I don't cry like a baby about it. I know some centrists and indeed some on this board are, but they are not many.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And then guess what.. I criticise left wing positions and the responses they generate. Having different opinions to me doesnt make you a left winger, lots of people on this hold different opinions to me. Giving out posts that repeat left wing policy and ideology make you a left winger IMO. Just as me agreeing with and posting right wing solutions makes me a right winger.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It is interesting you see left wing as a pejorative label. I can see why... it is a fucked up position people should be ashamed of.... :knuppel: .. but then I would say that</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="572416" data-time="1460694603">
<p>Because comparatively there is fuck all to complain about with Catholicism in modern times.</p>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>While its nowhere near as backwards as islam, there are a LOT of places in the world where catholicism is the thing standing in the way of women & basic healthcare.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/13/northern-ireland-women-miscarry-abortion-questioning-unite'>http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/13/northern-ireland-women-miscarry-abortion-questioning-unite</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thats in the 1st world.... Its appartently a bit suspicious to have a miscariage in Ireland. But thats OK, women who have just had miscarriages are pretty happy. Catholicism is why women in parts of the US struggle to get the pill.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If you are a man (a grown man anyway) Catholicism is utterly harmless & has zero impact on your life. If you are a woman or a sexy, sexy child, less so...</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="572515" data-time="1460710825">
<div>
<p>While its nowhere near as backwards as islam, there are a LOT of places in the world where catholicism is the thing standing in the way of women & basic healthcare.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/13/northern-ireland-women-miscarry-abortion-questioning-unite'>http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/13/northern-ireland-women-miscarry-abortion-questioning-unite</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thats in the 1st world.... Its appartently a bit suspicious to have a miscariage in Ireland. But thats OK, women who have just had miscarriages are pretty happy. Catholicism is why women in parts of the US struggle to get the pill.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If you are a man (a grown man anyway) Catholicism is utterly harmless & has zero impact on your life. If you are a woman or a sexy, sexy child, less so...</p>
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</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>And that sums up the hypocrisy. Unless you want to subscribe to a religion things that whilst forbidden by the religion are undertaken by officials within in the religion. </p>
<p>It is the standard response to Islam apologists, I even predicted it earlier in the thread, it is one of the knee jerk and 'go to' responses. </p>
<p>If you are going to attribute that kind of behavior to the ideology of Catholicism.. then you need to apply that to all the behavior of Immans. Good luck doing that.</p>
<p>Even your phrase 'sexy sexy children' is repulsive. ISIS follows the teachings of Mohammed and the hadiths far more closely than the pedo priests do christianity, yet how many times have you said that ISIS don't represent Islam accurately? There is not even an equivalency on any level to the pedo priests breaking the rules of their own religion and ISIS following the rules of their religion. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Ad for your example on abortion... that is incredibly underwhelming when compared to Islamic law. Women 'may' face prosecution for an abortion, she could have traveled to England for it. A bit of a hassle.... but compare that to the treatment of Women in Islamic states? And who says that being pro life is a catholic issue? </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I look forward to you analyzing Islam with the same rigor as you do Catholicism....</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Maybe we could start with Female circumcision? </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="572688" data-time="1460779697">
<div>
<p>I look forward to you analyzing Islam with the same rigor as you do Catholicism....</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Maybe we could start with Female circumcision? </p>
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</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Just quietly, that's not restricted to Islam. It's a cultural issue. Plenty of African Christians practise female genital mutilation.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="572690" data-time="1460781404">
<div>
<p>Just quietly, that's not restricted to Islam. It's a cultural issue. Plenty of African Christians practise female genital mutilation.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Yes and using Gollums logic from above. Because Immans do it... it is an Islam issue....</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Got an example of Catholic priests doing it? Because apparently that would make it a catholic issue...</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="572695" data-time="1460784875"><p>Yes and using Gollums logic</p></blockquote><br>Let's just stick to using your logic for your examples.<br><br>Catholicism gets shit for paedophilia because as an institution it aided and abetted priests who were sexually abusing children.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="572710" data-time="1460789423">
<div>
<p>Let's just stick to using your logic for your examples.<br><br>
Catholicism gets shit for paedophilia because as an institution it aided and abetted priests who were sexually abusing children.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Lets stick to the fact that as a ideology it does not promote or condone pedophilia. And that to repeatedly bring it up as somehow representative is actually a lot more dishonest than saying the acts of ISIS represent Islam.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And it is a complete nonsense to say the institution aided and abetted. Certainly some church leaders did. And they hopefully will be condemned for going against the teachings of their religion. The fact you are trying to paint the entire institution as somehow culpable for the actions of a few .. kinda makes my point for me. Shall we say that Islam is represented by ISIS? There is of course a difference between ISIS and the pedo priests.. one was actually following the religious teachings when it has done most of its horrible acts. The others were not any way following what was instructed by the Catholic Church as christian ideology.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Maybe we could look at some polls.... what % of Catholics support or even have limited sympathy for the pedo priests.... then do the same for ISIS and Muslims. Pretty obvious which would poll higher... in fact I bet the result would be zero for the priests.. they prob wouldn't even vote for themselves!</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="572715" data-time="1460790622"><p>Lets stick to the fact that as a ideology it does not promote or condone pedophilia. And that to repeatedly bring it up as somehow representative is actually a lot more dishonest than saying the acts of ISIS represent Islam.</p></blockquote><br>You're the one that presented female gential mutilation as an Islamic issue. Now who's being dishonest?<br> <br><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote"><p>And it is a complete nonsense to say the institution aided and abetted. Certainly some church leaders did.</p></blockquote><br>People charged with the leadership and management of the Church. Sounds like the institution to me.<br> <br><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote"><p>The fact you are trying to paint the entire institution as somehow culpable for the actions of a few .. kinda makes my point for me.</p></blockquote><br>The fucking irony.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="572771" data-time="1460795102">
<div>
<p>You're the one that presented female gential mutilation as an Islamic issue. Now who's being dishonest?<br>
<br><br>
People charged with the leadership and management of the Church. Sounds like the institution to me.<br>
<br><br>
The fucking irony.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>I didnt say it was solely an Islamic issue. .... your comprehension is faulty again. I said lets start with female circumcision. Which actually worked very well to prove the hypocrisy on display by the Islam apologists. But I doubt you will get that.</p>
<p>A very small number of catholic priests were at fault, that is not the institution. </p>
<p>But I am not surprised you see it as you do, you are desperate to avoid admitting the hypocrisy you are showing.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>But lets make it really REALLY simple, does ISIS represent Islam? Do the catholic pedo priests represent Catholicism.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="572781" data-time="1460796157"><p>I didnt say it was solely an Islamic issue. .... your comprehension is faulty again. I said lets start with female circumcision.</p></blockquote><br>You deliberately implied female genital mutilation was an Islamic problem and as I explained to you it's not.<br><br><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote"><p>A very small number of catholic priests were at fault, that is not the institution.</p></blockquote><br>That's why the priests were sued instead of the diocese? Why settlements of sex abuse cases amounted to $3 billion by 2012? Oh wait. Here's some light reading to start with - <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases'>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases</a><br><br><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote"><p>But I am not surprised you see it as you do, you are desperate to avoid admitting the hypocrisy you are showing.</p></blockquote><br>There's no hypocrisy in my posts.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="572834" data-time="1460798503">
<div>
<p>You deliberately implied female genital mutilation was an Islamic problem and as I explained to you it's not.<br><br><br>
That's why the priests were sued instead of the diocese? Why settlements of sex abuse cases amounted to $3 billion by 2012? Oh wait. Here's some light reading to start with - <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases'>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases</a><br><br><br>
There's no hypocrisy in my posts.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Still dodging the question aye... how illustrative.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Oh... implied.... lol...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Nope... that is just your comprehension failure, you read what you wanted to read.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="572841" data-time="1460799000"><p>Still dodging the question aye... how illustrative.</p></blockquote><br>For a number of reasons. The first of which is you're yet to discuss it with any intellectual rigour. You're more interested in point scoring on the internet. The second is it's self evident that Islam is immature in comparison to other major organised religions. Thirdly while ISIS is the most successful Salafi Jihadist militant group in modern history, it can't by definition represent Shiite Muslims.<br> <br><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote"><p>Oh... implied.... lol...<br><br>Nope... that is just your comprehension failure, you read what you wanted to read.</p></blockquote><br>On reflection it's explicit. At least have the intellectual fortitude to own what you wrote and meant. You clearly wanted to go back to pointing out how awful Islam is after Gollum pointed out that Catholicism isn't exactly empowering for women. So you raised the spectre of female genital mutilation because that's clearly worse than denying women control over their reproductive ability.<br><br>I certainly don't get defensive and start attacking people because they point out the foibles of the Catholic Church. Particularly when attacking another idiotic organised religion. That would be hypocritical.
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<p>You havent answered it because it would expose how full of shit you are.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Great so ISIS cannot represent Shiite Muslims... yet pedo priests represent Cathlolicism.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>lol.....</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>And you critiquing intellectual rigor is just to funny.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="572909" data-time="1460835571"><p>You havent answered it because it would expose how full of shit you are.<br><br>And<br> <br>Great so ISIS cannot represent Shiite Muslims...</p></blockquote><br>I did answer it, by definition. Salafi jihadists are adherents of Wahhabism, which is a fundamentalist branch of Sunni Islam. Sunnis and Shiites aren't the same thing. Examples of Shiite fundamentalists who commit(ted) terrorist acts are Fadayan-e Islam, Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization or something you might have heard of; Ansar e Hezbollah.<br><br>Or expressed another way; all Sunnis and all Shiites are adherents of Islam, but not all adhrerents of Islam are Sunnis. All Wahhabists are Sunnis, but not all Sunnis are Wahhabists. All Salafis are Wahhabists but not all Wahhabists are Salafis. See where this is going or do you need a picture?<br> <br> <br><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote"><p>And you critiquing intellectual rigor is just to funny.</p></blockquote><br>It's <em>rigour</em> and the adverb to describe a greater extent or degree is <em>too</em>.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="572928" data-time="1460850884">
<div>
<p>I did answer it, by definition. Salafi jihadists are adherents of Wahhabism, which is a fundamentalist branch of Sunni Islam. Sunnis and Shiites aren't the same thing. Examples of Shiite fundamentalists who commit(ted) terrorist acts are Fadayan-e Islam, Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization or something you might have heard of; Ansar e Hezbollah.<br><br>
Or expressed another way; all Sunnis and all Shiites are adherents of Islam, but not all adhrerents of Islam are Sunnis. All Wahhabists are Sunnis, but not all Sunnis are Wahhabists. All Salafis are Wahhabists but not all Wahhabists are Salafis. See where this is going or do you need a picture?<br>
<br>
<br><br>
It's <em>rigour</em> and the adverb to describe a greater extent or degree is <em>too</em>.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>No, you are just trying sophistry to avoid actually answering. But you are not clever enough. And all you end up doing is that you can google and show hypocrisy.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Lets try again, </p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Does ISIS represent Islam? Do the catholic pedo priests represent Catholicism?</span></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="572929" data-time="1460851311"><p>No, you are just trying sophistry to avoid actually answering. But you are not clever enough.</p></blockquote><br>The problem is you're not clever enough to understand that the question has been answered.
The Failed policy of Multiculturalism