Cane and Savea



  • Someone made the argument that Savea may have problems moving big SA bodies and I tend to agree.  He has a big ticker but unfortunately weight does have its advantages.  I think Cane carries a little more weight and has served us well.  Since the 7 position is really not a fetcher position any more just wondering why we don't run a larger body at 7 and essentially running 2 6's.  So for the EOYT how would a Read, Kaino and Iaone trio look.  Just thinking out of the box and possibly out of my arse.



  • People will defend Cane till the cows come home and I think he is a great player and outstanding on defense.   But Savea just offers a little more.



  • People will defend Cane till the cows come home and I think he is a great player and outstanding on defense. But Savea just offers a little more.

    Not our opinion that counts is it?
    With regard to picking a physical backeow. Could probably be done against some of the bigger backrows that stack their reams with 6.5 types.



  • People will defend Cane till the cows come home and I think he is a great player and outstanding on defense.   But Savea just offers a little more.

    similarly Savea fans drool over his every step
     
    cannot compare how they play for differing franchises, the game plans that they work within are different, which play to the strength of each player.
     
    Right now, I think Canes game still suits the way the ABs are playing better, with Savea better suited to come off the bench.



  • My intent was not to bash cane in any way just a new way to look at the make of the team.



  • It's getting closer - that's for sure.
    I think Cane keeps his spot, for now, but Savea should be given a chance to start in a game.



  • It's getting closer - that's for sure.
    I think Cane keeps his spot, for now, but Savea should be given a chance to start in a game.

    If Cane doesn't get over any issues carried over from the playoffs ie concussion (I heard from a source that he wasn't quite right vs the Canes) perhaps he'll get his chance sooner rather than later



  • Good problem to have. Can see why the selection panel sticks with Cane but can see Savea getting 30 minutes off the bench when the game opens up.



  • Save a will have BB like impact of the bench this year and then it will be hard to ignore him. esp if cane does not take his game to the next level.
    I think Akira way down the pecking order for now. he will probably come into serious contention post kaino assuming he surpasses the current sixes including fifita



  • Personally, I feel Savea is ahead of Cane atm, but that is based purely on form. Savea completely outplayed Cane in their semi, and Cane was obviously getting frustrated with his stupid off the ball stuff.
    Cane is the incumbent and deserves a chance to show his wares. 
     
    In saying that, as a squad of 23, it is probably better for Savea to come off the bench, as his style will suit the AB gameplan of stepping up the pace in the final 20.



  • Kind of nice to have two classy 7s. Injury prone position, that one.



  • I think we will see both in action for the All Blacks in the Rugby Championship. Great to have two excellent 7s to step into McCaw's enormous boots. Cane's great strength is his work rate. He is like the Duracell bunny in defence and supporting the ball carrier. Savea's has wonderful athleticism, a hunger to learn, a coolness under fire and makes things happens. Savea reminds me a lot of Michael Jones.



  • I think we will see both in action for the All Blacks inthe Rugby Championship.
    You really have to stop going out on a limb like this.



  • You really have to stop going out on a limb like this.

    Both Sam Cane and Ardie Savea are a lot better than Matt Todd.



  • Stop with the rugby genius stuff! Mind blowing.



  • I rate Todd a lot and think he would let the all blacks down
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



  • Stop with the rugby genius stuff! Mind blowing.
    I have nothing to declare except my genius.



  • Not much in it, but I think in Cane's physicality and tackling he has the advantage, but linking and ball handling I give to Savea. For now a great one two punch.



  • I suspect if intending to use both in the same game day 23, they will still see Cane as better suited to start and Ardie to finish , 
     
    If they wanted  to only use one of them and have a more beefed up bench ,with say Tuipulotu and Squire ,  then it  might become interesting



  • Don't think you can lose with either.
     
    I'll say one thing, Ardie clearly has the better invisibility cloak between the two. Despite having the attention grabbing hairdo, Ardie has close to 3 times more turnovers won than Cane and has conceded close to twice as less penalties than him too.



  • Ardie Savea has some great leg drive for a "small" flanker too.



  • Ardie Savea has some great leg drive for a "small" flanker too.

    You could say a flanker in a 2nd 5's body



  • Someone made the argument that Savea may have problems moving big SA bodies and I tend to agree. He has a big ticker but unfortunately weight does have its advantages. I think Cane carries a little more weight and has served us well. Since the 7 position is really not a fetcher position any more just wondering why we don't run a larger body at 7 and essentially running 2 6's. So for the EOYT how would a Read, Kaino and Iaone trio look. Just thinking out of the box and possibly out of my arse.

    Don't mind that sort of thinking if we wanted to try something a little different. And it's not too foreign to what Henry essentially tried when we ran Masoe, a robust 6/8 type at openside.
    If we were to try it, I reckon a guy like Squire could be an option to pair with Kaino and Read. He's got good quickness and physicality on both sides of the ball.



  • Don't mind that sort of thinking if we wanted to try something a little different. And it's not too foreign to what Henry essentially tried when we ran Masoe, a robust 6/8 type at openside.
    If we were to try it, I reckon a guy like Squire could be an option to pair with Kaino and Read. He's got good quickness and physicality on both sides of the ball.

    I was actually thinking Elliot Dixon makes more sense, I believe he has played all back 3 positions and I think he can flip the switch from tight to loose pretty easily.



  • I think we will see both in action for the All Blacks in the Rugby Championship. Great to have two excellent 7s to step into McCaw's enormous boots. Cane's great strength is his work rate. He is like the Duracell bunny in defence and supporting the ball carrier. Savea's has wonderful athleticism, a hunger to learn, a coolness under fire and makes things happens. Savea reminds me a lot of Michael Jones.

    Me too, especially his acceleration over the first ten yards.



  • I was actually thinking Elliot Dixon makes more sense, I believe he has played all back 3 positions and I think he can flip the switch from tight to loose pretty easily.

    it's all about the combos eh. i would have dixon earmarked as playing if read goes down, as we'd want to replace his lineout work with someone as good. he has arguably better linking play than savea or cane too i reckon.
     
    shit, our B team loosies... dixon, savea, luatua would be pretty brutal. bring back the AB trials.



  • That's where I think Cane has the edge for now, as he plays a more 6.5 role, which suits the ABs game, so either Ardie changes (which you don't want him to do, plus he suits how we like to close out the game) or we get to the point of the ABs adjusting their game plans to include a 7 playing the way Ardie does.
     
    Great problem to have.



  • Don't mind that sort of thinking if we wanted to try something a little different. And it's not too foreign to what Henry essentially tried when we ran Masoe, a robust 6/8 type at openside.
    If we were to try it, I reckon a guy like Squire could be an option to pair with Kaino and Read. He's got good quickness and physicality on both sides of the ball.

    That is kind of my thinking about Akira.  Does not lack for speed and power. He will be an AB of significance in the future and sooner rather than later.  Thanks for the feedback on the original post.



  • Savea to me looks like the next Beauden Barrett.  An unbelievable bench option.
     
    However, BB is looking more and more likely to start for me now, maybe Savea will be doing that same move before too long.



  • Hansen has said numerous times you have to think of the ABs as a 23-man team not starters and reserves.  It makes sense for Cane to start and Savea to finish as that plays to the strengths of both players, and the team.  I do think Savea will get a start, probably against Argentina.
     
    To use an analogy, why don't we start Faumuina ahead of Franks because the former offers more around the field?  The answer is obvious.



  • Someone made the argument that Savea may have problems moving big SA bodies and I tend to agree.  He has a big ticker but unfortunately weight does have its advantages.  I think Cane carries a little more weight and has served us well.  Since the 7 position is really not a fetcher position any more just wondering why we don't run a larger body at 7 and essentially running 2 6's.  So for the EOYT how would a Read, Kaino and Iaone trio look.  Just thinking out of the box and possibly out of my arse.

    all depends on the approach eh - you can either move the bodies or get there before they do. if bono jr was a new zealander with the rest of our pack and what our backs would do off that turnover ball, i reckon the whole world would be saying: that is how you play 7.
    it is tempting though, when we have so much quality at 6 to look at putting one at 7 - especially given our 7s aren't playing that fetching game as you say. i think akira ioane is awesome, and will get more awesome, but i don't see the need to rush him through when the blokes ahead of him are pretty flash players too, and on form. if he were playing midfield or left wing then maybe.
     
    i'm also stoked with how well big dolph luatua has come back. he looked like he was at risk of being one of those one season wonders, but he really stood up this year.



  • dunno, the rest of his game struggles a bit due to him going for the turnover so often, and we like our players to be good at multiple roles, not just thier core speciality.
     
    I mean only up until Aaron Smith came on the scene did we always seem to go for a 9 who was a decent passer but was the 4th loosie, we have long required our props to be ball runners, hitting rucks, defence, and scrumming has at times suffered.



  • dunno, the rest of his game struggles a bit due to him going for the turnover so often, and we like our players to be good at multiple roles, not just thier core speciality.
     
    I mean only up until Aaron Smith came on the scene did we always seem to go for a 9 who was a decent passer but was the 4th loosie, we have long required our props to be ball runners, hitting rucks, defence, and scrumming has at times suffered.

    Lucky we have Owen Franks to alleviate the problem of running with the ball.....
     
    I'm told he's pretty good at those other things you mention too which is handy.


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