All Blacks 2025
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
something i think we / AB's coaches undersell is metaphorical momentum, guys on these huge waves of form....guys that if you gave them a black jersey would happily run out there to take on the world....get critiqued and picked apart to a level incumbents dont and ultimately someone says "but experience"...and all the wind gets taken out of these guys sails, sure i get experience has value, especially captain or game driver....but out and out weapons like Tangitau could be...get this guy fucking out there
That’s why I feel for Laumape, Stevenson, Narawa et al.
At various times they had the perceived “hot hand” and didn’t really get a fair shake. See Harry Plummer or Perofeta getting 2 minutes at the end of a test as recent examples. This is exacerbated as a “fuck you” by the incumbents concurrently stinking the place out on a weekly basis yet keeping their spots. They are not Marty Holah being stuck behind McCaw sob stories. They are players playing lights out and being stuck behind the likes of Beauden Barrett.
I agree with your post wholeheartedly in the sense that a player can ride the crest of a wave from club rugby into test footie and their effervescence spills over into the squad ala Sititi.
We don’t see enough of it anymore.
The stakes are too high for the Allblacks coaches these days and they suffer from selection paralysis and conservatism. Particularly if they lose tests early doors like Foster and Robertson.
Trapped in amber henceforth.
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Conrad Smith in our current shape would have been fucking useless.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
Conrad Smith in our current shape would have been fucking useless.
HOT TAKE
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oh yeah totally, i mean Conrad was a noted crash ball specialist who did his best work right on teh shoulder of his inside, playing flat as hell. He also had noted pace which would allow him to operate a narrow defensive channel and still get out and cover the wide players.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
oh yeah totally, i mean Conrad was a noted crash ball specialist who did his best work right on teh shoulder of his inside, playing flat as hell. He also had noted pace which would allow him to operate a narrow defensive channel and still get out and cover the wide players.
.....it would be true to form to try and make one of our greats play differently to his strengths
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
.....it would be true to form to try and make one of our greats play differently to his strengths
Good call. What would Henry do (yes it's a wristband)
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The next ABs No 7? How Kirifi became NZ’s top breakdown operator
The Hurricanes captain is doing everything possible to grab the All Blacks jersey.
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He's playing really well and I think he should've had more caps by now.
One concern I have is that the breakdown seems to be adjudicated different in SR at the moment. There is a lot of leeway given to people attempting turnovers. People putting their hands past the ball or leaning their body weight on players. That is not how it's getting refereed in Test rugby. If he does make it he would need to adjust quickly
It's that usual question of whether SR is preparing our players correctly for Test matches
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
The next ABs No 7? How Kirifi became NZ’s top breakdown operator
The Hurricanes captain is doing everything possible to grab the All Blacks jersey.
kirifi v Tavatavanawai
big jim for the 7 jersey
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I'd like to see Kirifi play for the ANZAC team against the BIL as he'll be available for that team (AB and Māori players won't be). That would give him an opportunity to impress.
As for the ABs, it will depend on where they play Savea, and the loose forward mix. Having a specialist 7 on the bench might be a luxury.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Ofa out for the season (having been fairly shit), EDG struggling for the Highlanders, Numia hardly setting the world alight… loosehead prop shaping as one of the more intriguing selection dilemmas.
no issues
William,bower and who ever is Crusaders 3rd loosehead -
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Ofa out for the season (having been fairly shit), EDG struggling for the Highlanders, Numia hardly setting the world alight… loosehead prop shaping as one of the more intriguing selection dilemmas.
Both of who you mentioned will be fine. It’s a long season and EDG’s last game was his best one. Numia coming off a bad leg injury, takes time for the big boys. Tamaiti Williams hasn’t been shit hot either but not concerned.
An injury forcing the coach to finally get some new blood in there, at least we know that should happen now. Numia over Bower for sure.
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Over halfway through the season now so going to have a go at what a 34-man All Blacks squad might look like...
Hookers - Codie Taylor, Asafo Aumua, Samisoni Taukei'aho
Props - Ethan de Groot, Tamaiti Williams, Tyrel Lomax, Fletcher Newell, Pasilio Tosi
Locks - Scott Barrett, Tupou Vaa'i, two of Josh Lord, Patrick Tuipulotu and Josh Beehre*
Loose forwards - Ardie Savea, Ethan Blackadder, Wallace Sititi, Luke Jacobson, Peter Lakai, Cam Christie*
Halfbacks - Cam Roigard, Cortez Ratima, Noah Hotham
First fives - Damian McKenzie, Beauden Barrett, Xavi Taele*
Midfield - Jordie Barrett, Rieko Ioane, Anton Lienert-Brown, Quinn Tupaea
Outside backs - Will Jordan, Caleb Clarke, Ruben Love, Mark Tele'a, Sevu ReecePossibly another prop or loose forward instead of a midfielder/outside back. Obviously still a lot of time for players to get injured/come into form/lose form completely.
Feels a bit absurd to pick three Blues as the only debutants but think they've all been pretty good (in the case of Beehre/Christie) or shown immense promise - I can see Taele being a long-term option at 10.
Reece probably the luckiest of the bunch based on last year's form, this year's form, and the strength that NZ has in the outside backs but he's a Razor-favourite. Tangitau needs to back up next year (or in the NPC) to win a spot for my mind.
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For the sake of giving him a shot should Kirifi be in the squad? And also maybe Shaun Stevenson?
I'm thinking more from the point of view of giving them a chance to see what they can do in an All Black environment because that way it's not a closed shop.
I say that on the basis of two players (not to pick on them) who have been meh this season are Telea and Blackadder and it seems a tad unfair for them to be shoe ins to the squad when there are players out there who have never really been given a chance. In Stevenson's case one cap ofc.
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@nonpartizan Stevenson is off to Japan at the end of the year so don't think Razor will bother investing in him now (different story if he were an established All Black).
I'm not sure Kirifi will ever be an All Black. He's playing well and is obviously excellent at the breakdown but I don't think he offers enough with ball in hand to justify how unbalanced any loose forward trio would end up being (and it's already unbalanced). A Sititi/Kirifi/Savea combo is incredibly undersized so until Razor gets his hands on a hulking 6, I can't see Kirifi getting the call up.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan Stevenson is off to Japan at the end of the year so don't think Razor will bother investing in him now (different story if he were an established All Black).
I'm not sure Kirifi will ever be an All Black. He's playing well and is obviously excellent at the breakdown but I don't think he offers enough with ball in hand to justify how unbalanced any loose forward trio would end up being (and it's already unbalanced). A Sititi/Kirifi/Savea combo is incredibly undersized so until Razor gets his hands on a hulking 6, I can't see Kirifi getting the call up.
Understood on Stevenson.
For Kirifi I see the drawbacks about the balance of the team and sauad but I just don't see how coaches aren't curious enough to see him in their training sessions and in their environments doing their drills. It just seems a defeating mindset to write players off before they have been given a shot especially since it also messages non All Blacks that you might be dismissed without being ever really given a chance.
IMHO I think it's better to experiment and fail than to preemptively assume but never satisfy your curiosity.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan Stevenson is off to Japan at the end of the year so don't think Razor will bother investing in him now (different story if he were an established All Black).
I'm not sure Kirifi will ever be an All Black. He's playing well and is obviously excellent at the breakdown but I don't think he offers enough with ball in hand to justify how unbalanced any loose forward trio would end up being (and it's already unbalanced). A Sititi/Kirifi/Savea combo is incredibly undersized so until Razor gets his hands on a hulking 6, I can't see Kirifi getting the call up.
Understood on Stevenson.
For Kirifi I see the drawbacks about the balance of the team and sauad but I just don't see how coaches aren't curious enough to see him in their training sessions and in their environments doing their drills. It just seems a defeating mindset to write players off before they have been given a shot especially since it also messages non All Blacks that you might be dismissed without being ever really given a chance.
IMHO I think it's better to experiment and fail than to preemptively assume but never satisfy your curiosity.
I don't necessarily disagree but players are written off at all levels of the game for lacking the raw attributes needed to meet that level of play.
Who would you partner Kirifi with in the loose forwards?
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan Stevenson is off to Japan at the end of the year so don't think Razor will bother investing in him now (different story if he were an established All Black).
I'm not sure Kirifi will ever be an All Black. He's playing well and is obviously excellent at the breakdown but I don't think he offers enough with ball in hand to justify how unbalanced any loose forward trio would end up being (and it's already unbalanced). A Sititi/Kirifi/Savea combo is incredibly undersized so until Razor gets his hands on a hulking 6, I can't see Kirifi getting the call up.
Understood on Stevenson.
For Kirifi I see the drawbacks about the balance of the team and sauad but I just don't see how coaches aren't curious enough to see him in their training sessions and in their environments doing their drills. It just seems a defeating mindset to write players off before they have been given a shot especially since it also messages non All Blacks that you might be dismissed without being ever really given a chance.
IMHO I think it's better to experiment and fail than to preemptively assume but never satisfy your curiosity.
I don't necessarily disagree but players are written off at all levels of the game for lacking the raw attributes needed to meet that level of play.
Who would you partner Kirifi with in the loose forwards?
They are but there must be a decent amount of talent wasted at all levels because coaches were too conservative in their approach and lacked the curiosity to give players a chance.
I would look to bring him off the bench to start with.
If you were going to start him I recognize it's a conumdrum for balance and if you were being experimental you could pick him, Savea/Jacobson at 8 and Blackadder at 6. Or go with the undersized unit you mentioned.Not to look too far ahead but there are potentially two lower stakes games for the All Blacks this year - 3rd test v France (iif it's not a decider) and Wales, just based on their recent form. I would be targeting those games to play a fringe player or two like Kirifi.
