Nowadays, props make more carries than in 2015. Back then, it was the locks who were standing as first receivers, next to slow ball rucks. Now, it's more frequently the props who are there. France use Cyril Baille a lot in this position while both Irish props make a lot of carries.
@kirwan Ardie is better in those wider channels where he will have one oon ones to bust through a tackle, in the middle with more traffic he is less effective, although sometimes when Ardie gets his leg drive going he might bust through but ends up ahead of his cleaners and gets isolated.
Ardie also needs to play 7, or sit on the bench for 60.
Squidge " Ian Foster's ABs attack is bad...No is worse than that...it's average, it is the attack of an unambitious mid table club side being executed by players so individually talented, some times they score despite the system, rather than because of it"
So true. We see, he sees it, media are even beginning to. NZR? Nah he rocks!
actually that video also reminds me how shit Barnes is. Shocking.
Missed clear obstruction in first try and accidential offside in lead up to another score. Without looking closely.
What was wrong with Richie? For example, when Ntarmack behind his line, he goes for strip instead of putting shoulder into him. Even if he wriggles away Jordie finishes him off. Missed the chance for knock out punch! FFS.
I don't know. He really had an off-day. Didn't seem to trust himself or others. Same with David Havili. I wonder if their confidence is gone.
Ronan O'Gara on Irish podcast suggested that AB's defence was outdated -- prime example of why 'manwatching' is no longer used in North is the extraordinary number of times ABs were sucked in by the decoy runners.
@nostrildamus but I think a lot of energy was put into that Ireland game because they (along with SA) had given the ABs the most trouble in that 4 year WC cycle.
As England showed after beating NZ, it is difficult to climb another peak when you feel you've conquered Everest the week before.
The key to winning WCs is to not scale the peaks in the QFs. ABs were too good (and Ireland poor) in QFs. A scratchy, hard fought win would have been better preparation. A bit like a scratchy hard fought win against limited, but game opposition like Italy 😉
Ireland's team for Japan was supposedly (from Irish fans and writers) a bit of a conservative selection. They didn't get much opposition from Japan, who were v poor. What does it say when their conservative side were seemingly striking from anywhere and everywhere? Their defence can be brutal, but Japan rarely threatened for 80 mins. I've seen ABs struggle in their next game after looking other worldly in their previous game. Expectations are high now for Ireland to repeat that performance (not result) against NZ.
Ireland were up for that game because of what happened in last WC against Japan. It was also Sexton's 100th test. Now they have to scale another emotional high against NZ a week later. That's a big job for the coaching staff to get the focus right.
NZ have work ons after Italy. They enter the game with things to prove, not plaudits in their ears. Ireland go into the game in fine fettle, but with a sense of trepidation because they know what is coming. I reckon it'll be a cracker.
This is NZ's biggest game of the NH tour. Ireland are on an upward curve after finishing 6 Nations strongly and putting away Japan with ease. This is where the ABs will be put to the test, not in Paris.
Thank you much there to agree with. But do (and did) Ireland have the equivalent depth as the ABs?
From memory when we played them in that game they already and on the field had key injuries? Have they improved their depth?
Front row they have depth. Cian Healy wasn't playing last week (Furlong and Porter were the starting props). Hooker they have options. At lock, they can afford to leave a Lion in Henderson out. Back row they are spoiled for choice. Peter O'Mahoney, who was MoM against ABs when Ireland beat ABs in 2018, isn't first choice.
At 9 they have Gibson-Park who offers more of a passing game than Murray, but Murray has a grade A box kicking game. Nice blend. At 10 they struggle behind Sexton to have the same quality, but they have good enough back ups.
At 12 they have Henshaw or Aki who are both good foils for Ringrose at 13. They have plenty of v good outside backs to choose from who run fast, hard and have skills. The addition of Lowe has provided them with an extra something to unlock defences.
So yeah, I'd say depth wise they are doing fine. One of the strongest squads in the 6N now.
That is impressive if they can leave Henderson out, have not followed his recent form but he impressed me. I recognized most of the names so that surprises me as well!
Which is why I prefer Mo'unga off the bench. His style of play can really exploit tired defenses. When he starts against the more physical sides he goes missing completely. Not that Beauden is a natural 10 that will control the game, but he can handle the physical stuff a lot better and is not afraid to run hard and straight when required.
He’s also a terrier on defence, and though not huge, generates some awesome turnovers. But I agree with a few on here, he seems to be trying to be a fast as Smith, but can’t do that with accuracy.
He’s also been beyond awesome for the canes and hopefully he’ll knock the fuckwit folau off the top of the trying scoring list next year
There feels to me to be more angst at refereeing these days and more talk of unconscious bias leading to 50/50 calls going against teams. I seem to recall the Oz GAGR forum curating videos uncovering AB skulduggery in the past (lots of yellow circles), and I'm sure there was a NZ one (or two) after 2007. This mantle has been picked up by the South Africans (with a large dollop of help from Jaco Johan) who now seem to be making videos showing how the Boks are the victims of a global conspiracy by refs. I recall some Irish ref-bashing in the past, but this seems to have died down now that they've managed to beat NZ a couple of times.
So my questions are, do you feel your team is more penalised than other teams? And if so, do you think there is a reason why? Or is it more to do with your own team's inadequacies?
I think not all penalties given in a game have the same impact. Some can really change the momentum and a couple in a row can lead to crucial points that can change a game big time. People say it evens out in the end, but the fact is it doesn't within 80 minutes - often one team will benefit more from calls going their way at crucial moments in the match.
I don't for a second believe there is any conspiracy, or that any one team is more often unfairly penalised, but sometimes your team does get pretty screwed by refereeing mistakes, so fans feel aggrieved.
It's a fast dynamic sport though, I'd say the hardest sport in the world to officiate, and I've come to accept that refs are going to make a handful of mistakes every game. I used to get really riled up at the injustice of it all, but these days I tend to not be too fazed. It's part of the game, and the best teams need the mental toughness to overcome things that don't go their way - the ABs under Richie post 2007 were superb at not letting bad calls throw them off their game.
So Akira Ioane and Jordie Barrett are going to be the top two players on the Fern's MoM table after the Rugby Championship. Hats off to them on their hard work on developing themselves and delivering on their potential. Hoping that both can develop further into dominant world-class players and even all-time greats in the next few years.
1995 is more amazing given most of the incumbents were still available for selection.
Kronfeld, Mehrtens and Osbourne had a solitary test against Canada prior to the tournament and were the starting 7, 10 and 15.
The Baby Blacks was the 1986 side, which had a massive number of noobs due to the Cavaliers being stood down. Only four even had test experience -- and one of those was Arthur Stone.
While 1994 Lomu looked a bit out of sorts, it was pretty obvious right from the start that he was always going to be special. It was only three games into his AB career and he was the pretty close to the best player in the world. (
Christian Cullen only arrives fully formed if you don't count Sevens first.
There is also a premium article on Rugbypass, pointing out similar errors. In addition, the lack of growth in attacking plays, with the same plays that were used Vs Fiji& Oz, also used Vs boks. Not only that, they've been around since the Hansen era
The try mentioned is the Savea one, which was just saying beaudy brilliance, and not a set play
The try highlighted the possibilities for the All Blacks had they schemed deliberately for what they were facing, instead of rolling out Foster’s same old menu and trying to take on the Springboks in areas of strength like the maul.
Based on their two games against the Springboks, Rennie and his staff looked far superior to the All Blacks brains trust when it came to game planning for the world champions.
They tailored their game to the opposition to attack the weaknesses, whereas the All Blacks naively went brazenly forward trying to attack South Africa’s strengths and it backfired.
This should be a key lesson for Foster’s All Blacks moving forward. In the organised parts of the game, they cannot change the pieces performing the roles, run the same plays against everyone and expect them to work.
There needs to be some flexibility there and more thought into the process.
The fact that they were running the same starter play with McKenzie on the left wing showed a certain level of naivety that, to no surprise, blew up.
In tight test matches where counter-attacking opportunities dry up, the All Blacks will need to have a clinical set-piece attacking plan which, at times, needs to be adjusted for the opposition.
They might have the most attacking talent in the world, but they still need decent plans to be devised to help them get the match-ups and space they need to let their skills shine.
You cannot roll up and play the same against Fiji as you do against the Springboks and expect to win handsomely.
It could work, or it could just as easily blow up like it did twice in the Rugby Championship..
Sorry to go back to this ...
Fair enough the Boks were up in our faces, brutal, energetic rugged commonsense rugby with some nicely worked out tries, pinpointed our weakest players, Vermeulen was again very good but very good at key moments (so, great player), their locks are bigger and tougher than before and quite frankly Taylor went into his shell after his miscatch, DMac and Havili and Richie were pounced on, they just don't have the mass, Patty T is a turnover waiting to happen, and Scotty B made yet more little stupid yellow coloured mistakes in front of the ref. I don't think he is a journeyman, just a solid international quality hardworking lock with brain fades at key moments.
But we lack a hardworking hardnosed lock when Sammy W. is not there (and he is more an all-round hardworking good lock with great rugby brain rather than a hard bugger) and BBBR was still working back to his physically dominant self (but not in this match).
Loosies: I thought Akira was generally ok, Savea was good, it was at 8 that a forward went missing. When Blackadder came on he was up in their faces and battled. So I am still surprised, what the hell happened to LJ, where was he? I saw him standing behind rucks and a bit after halftime but nothing dominant, nothing much to see.
I wonder if we still have a key problem at 8 as well.
I don't blame the coaches too much (apart, as the article rightly says, not targetting opposition weaknesses). but they should have realized DH would be targetted at 12, there is little point in DMac against the ABs if there are 2 10s (and you want JB on as long as possible, he was great again), but at midfield, we lacked dominance we lacked impact, and we lacked imagination. And Samisoni is clearer better for this sort of game than Asafo.
Shout out to wings, I thought they played well. But we really have depth problems at lock and selection issues in the midfield. We were lucky the Boks persist with Pollard and Le Roux and can't get Steyn to full game fitness. He looks like a truckstop diner not a deft placement kicker but boy can he get them key territory.
I thought the ref missed neck rolls/high tackles, offsides at rucks, general offsides and so forth but hey it was what it was. We had an off night and they had an on night.
I thought we were outcoached as well, their bench timing was great again.
@crucial I like how he seems to make the gain line. Just one of those things he seems to do well. I think Foster would find it difficult to move away from Havilli though.
Some of those passes DH had to receive were excruciating. If they play BB and TJP again they should choose for 12 who ever can catch the ball despite how bad the pass is. I didn't actually see the one per game dud pass from Weber though, thought he was very good.
Did anyone read the player ratings today in the Sunday Times by Mr S Jones. Barrett was lucky to get a 6/10 and is almost as overrated as SBW. He does make me chuckle, especially when he's salty 🤣. He did v much enjoy the English win over NZ today. Is he really Welsh still?
Haven't read what Jones wrote, but I too am not as excited about BB's performance as most seem to be. It was typical BB in that he showed he is a very very good rugby player but an average International 10 in other aspects.
At the moment we have 2 flawed 10s, so the challenge for the coaches is how to best use their strengths. Right now they appear to prefer Beauden starting with Mo'unga on the bench, and I agree with that approach.
Beauden handles the physical stuff better, is a solid defender, and is not afraid to run straight and hard when required. He's also worth 1 - 3 tries per game at any stage pretty much out of nowhere. He's a nightmare to defend as you can't take your eye off him for a second or he'll burn you. However, he won't take control of a tight test and drive the team around the park as you'd expect a traditional 10 to do.
Mo'unga looks a million bucks when his forward pack is bitch slapping the opposition all over the park (Saders), is lethal in open play and comes into his own towards the end of the game when defenses are tiring. He also has a better kicking game from hand. However, he doesn't handle the physical teams well at all, and has gone missing against the English and the Boks when they've had our pack on the back foot, so is also unable to take control of a tight test. He's also a poor defender so doesn't often defend in the line as other teams will target him.
Given their attributes, I can understand the preference for Beauden starting, though it can be horses for courses a bit depending on the opposition.
That's spot on in my opinion even though I rank Richie as the better overall 10 (and BB has lost some of his outrageous slinky acceleration). If Jordie is kicking conversions I agree with the selection (sorry, Crusader fans, I can only defend your team for so long).
I'll have to rewatch it but Samsoni was attracting several defenders at a time, not going backwards and solid with ball security, given last week they gave Akira a lot of 2 tackler attention it would be rather mouthwatering to see them both on the field.
I know most of the Ferners prefer Mo'unga to BB but the latter launched his backline perfectly against the Argies last Sunday. It was smooth and direct. I can't remember Mo'unga doing the same with the black jersey. Of course, Mo'unga is a far better goalkicker but with Jordie taking the goalkicking duties, this could not be a problem anymore. Moreover, defensively, BB is superior to RM, IMO.
The jury on Mo'unga is still out for me, he struggles against a committed defense and tends to just shovel the ball on when they are getting up in his face. Loved what I saw from Beauden in this match, taking the line on despite the hard tackling from the Argies, created lots of space and time for those outside him. That said, Beauden hasn't exactly been very consistent, so he needs to string some performances together. I'm 50/50 on who starts and who is on the bench.
Very 50/50 indeed, in a healthy way though.
Gregor Paul just wrote a fanboi/fluffer piece after the first Pumas match about BB on the "RugbyXV" site but made a reasonable point that BB and Jordie look very comfortable together and had great understanding, no surprise. He kind of presented it as the Barrett brothers vs Mounga and McKenzie ... not sure I agree!
I'd rather they lock in a key moving part and make Jordie the #1 full-back, THEN decide 10. Richie Mounga at 10 and BB at 15 always seem to play like an unconscious "battle of the egos" for my eyes.
Under Shag, Cane got left out of the starting line-up of a WC semi-final.
Yeah, the one bloke who would have caused England serious problems from the word go.
That loss still rankles with me - and not just for the Cane omission. Some of the dumbest play I've seen from an AB team for years, mainly from the senior players
It’s taken me a long time to accept that Sam Whitelock might be a decent captain after his facepalm to Farrell late on, which effectively ended what little glimmer of hope we might have had of pinching that match
I don't blame him for that - it was a ridiculous intervention by the referee.
Farrell was being a prick. But he bit the bait
That's not in contention. It's the bullshit reversal from Owen that's the issue.
I agree. But in the current climate the retaliator almost always gets pinged. So we can argue but at the end of the day he needs to keep his discipline there
@mn5 Sorry fellas got distracted, but not sure why I cranky etc, I just wonder why I get shit because I asked if anyone knew of the ABs having a harder test schedule. Instead of answering I get called a Fozzie supporter (which I will be while he coaches ABs, because I an AB supposter) . So I tkae it noone really know of a heavier test schedule?
One should never get cranky on the fern, it’s all fun and bullshit on here anyway.
I agree wholeheartedly mate, I never take it too seriously, hell it's a forum on the Net!
It’s basically in permanent ink on the nomination form, no matter how shyte they are.
Yes. All those teams are nominated
“All teams in black that took the field in 2021 will be running for New Zealand Team of the Year, and their respective coaches nominated for ASB New Zealand Coach of the Year”
So it will be the same as 2020.
The NZ team of the year nominations in 2020 were the AB's, Black Ferns, Both NZ 7's sides & NZ Maori. It will be same this year
All of the coaches were up for the NZ coach of the year too. The qualification is coaching a NZ national side
May rewatch but they seemed to be the only ones without a glaring mistake.
Penalty in front of the ref, didn't see a mistake, unnecessary forward pass.. ah oops answered. Anyway, apart from mistakes, good selection although I thought Sam came more into the fore later on. Nugget was mostly excellent, again but I worry about our replacements..
I have another apology for the AB coaches, I thought in an earlier Bledisloe the coaches had the bench replacement timing all wrong. Maybe, but it is clear that a bigger issue is, the AB bench just isn't of the same calibre.
Having Matt Philip behind him helps. I've only just reached that point.
Having just rewatched it may be Ta'avao has been a bit hard done by. First scrum after Patty T on and Whitelock swaps sides. PT packed very high on Karl, and looks like Sam slipped off Ta'avao, who then has whole Wallaby pack driving through him.
Poor cohesion by Black pack, whereas Wallaby changes seem to have been upgrade.
Ta'avao did Ok at previous scrum with Codie and BBBR still on, although scrum did collapse on his side.