Highlanders 2025
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
First game I've turned off for the year. Shithouse
Don’t worry. I’m sure you’ll be able to draw plenty of positives from it. The experience will be vital for our inexperienced players against the Drua next week…
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Same players, same shit performance... Jamie Joseph has to take a portion of the blame for this.
We've ultimately gone into the year with just two locks, and their form is now faltering, because they have not been properly rotated.
We've gone into the season with Broughton (Too small), Renton (Too slow) & Stodart (Not rated seemingly) as number eight options, which has failed us, so we are now stuck with playing two openside flankers, which has very rarely been a successful strategy for any team above NPC level. If you have two All Blacks, maybe, but neither Withy nor Lasaqa are anywhere near a black jersey.
At first five, he's been purely stubborn with Taine Robinson, who started well, but his form has faded with the team's. Millar has been fit for the past two weeks, but they decided against taking him to Australia. Is he perfect? No, but he does at least have the ability to control a game with his boot, so it means will be dropping it in the 22, rather than on halfway.
The rest of the backs have generally been good, and at fullback, I maintain his hands are tied behind his back with JRK ruled out, because frankly every other option has showed their limitations.
Barring a miracle turnaround, our season is over - I want sweeping changes next week.
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
Same players, same shit performance... Jamie Joseph has to take a portion of the blame for this.
We've ultimately gone into the year with just two locks, and their form is now faltering, because they have not been properly rotated.
We've gone into the season with Broughton (Too small), Renton (Too slow) & Stodart (Not rated seemingly) as number eight options, which has failed us, so we are now stuck with playing two openside flankers, which has very rarely been a successful strategy for any team above NPC level. If you have two All Blacks, maybe, but neither Withy nor Lasaqa are anywhere near a black jersey.
At first five, he's been purely stubborn with Taine Robinson, who started well, but his form has faded with the team's. Millar has been fit for the past two weeks, but they decided against taking him to Australia. Is he perfect? No, but he does at least have the ability to control a game with his boot, so it means will be dropping it in the 22, rather than on halfway.
The rest of the backs have generally been good, and at fullback, I maintain his hands are tied behind his back with JRK ruled out, because frankly every other option has showed their limitations.
Barring a miracle turnaround, our season is over - I want sweeping changes next week.
Hey hey hey. Isn’t this just unnecessarily negative…?
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@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
Same players, same shit performance... Jamie Joseph has to take a portion of the blame for this.
We've ultimately gone into the year with just two locks, and their form is now faltering, because they have not been properly rotated.
We've gone into the season with Broughton (Too small), Renton (Too slow) & Stodart (Not rated seemingly) as number eight options, which has failed us, so we are now stuck with playing two openside flankers, which has very rarely been a successful strategy for any team above NPC level. If you have two All Blacks, maybe, but neither Withy nor Lasaqa are anywhere near a black jersey.
At first five, he's been purely stubborn with Taine Robinson, who started well, but his form has faded with the team's. Millar has been fit for the past two weeks, but they decided against taking him to Australia. Is he perfect? No, but he does at least have the ability to control a game with his boot, so it means will be dropping it in the 22, rather than on halfway.
The rest of the backs have generally been good, and at fullback, I maintain his hands are tied behind his back with JRK ruled out, because frankly every other option has showed their limitations.
Barring a miracle turnaround, our season is over - I want sweeping changes next week.
Hey hey hey. Isn’t this just unnecessarily negative…?
No I don't think so. This performance was a step backwards from last week, and I think some of the chickens have come home to roost.
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
Same players, same shit performance... Jamie Joseph has to take a portion of the blame for this.
We've ultimately gone into the year with just two locks, and their form is now faltering, because they have not been properly rotated.
We've gone into the season with Broughton (Too small), Renton (Too slow) & Stodart (Not rated seemingly) as number eight options, which has failed us, so we are now stuck with playing two openside flankers, which has very rarely been a successful strategy for any team above NPC level. If you have two All Blacks, maybe, but neither Withy nor Lasaqa are anywhere near a black jersey.
At first five, he's been purely stubborn with Taine Robinson, who started well, but his form has faded with the team's. Millar has been fit for the past two weeks, but they decided against taking him to Australia. Is he perfect? No, but he does at least have the ability to control a game with his boot, so it means will be dropping it in the 22, rather than on halfway.
The rest of the backs have generally been good, and at fullback, I maintain his hands are tied behind his back with JRK ruled out, because frankly every other option has showed their limitations.
Barring a miracle turnaround, our season is over - I want sweeping changes next week.
Hey hey hey. Isn’t this just unnecessarily negative…?
No I don't think so. This performance was a step backwards from last week, and I think some of the chickens have come home to roost.
I’m taking the piss out of your reply to my almost exact comment last week. I’d go further to say the problem isn’t just on the surface and inexperience. It’s a systemic problem of players having zero discipline, skill, and rugby know how. The writing was on the wall for a performance like this. I’m not sure why anyone is surprised
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@KiwiInLondon I personally thought your comments last week weren't justified, and I still wouldn't go that far.
We were poor against the Canes, but should of won, and then were actually largely decent enough against the Reds & Brumbies, but failed to bury the game and were punished for it.
This week, we were either going to win, or the performance levels were going to dip further, and and unfortunately it was the latter. Playing with 14 for half an hour didn't help, but outside of a couple of individual moments, we were poor - and I think, as I say, JJ has to take some blame for it.
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon I personally thought your comments last week weren't justified, and I still wouldn't go that far.
We were poor against the Canes, but should of won, and then were actually largely decent enough against the Reds & Brumbies, but failed to bury the game and were punished for it.
This week, we were either going to win, or the performance levels were going to dip further, and and unfortunately it was the latter. Playing with 14 for half an hour didn't help, but outside of a couple of individual moments, we were poor - and I think, as I say, JJ has to take some blame for it.
We’ll see how you feel after a 3-4 win season. Apply the “outside a couple of individual moments, the team poor” to the entire season. Not a single player in the team from last season has substantially improved. A few have gone backwards.
Same issues as last season, and the season before, and the season before that. The personnel have shifted but it’s the same old issues. I can’t keep the positivity up season after season.
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It was always clear there was going to be an I told you so post by Mr InLondon post this performance.
Negativity is fine. If there is reflection and reality paired with it. Being negative with a single performance is fine.
But, what is the solution?
As I said. It is easy to say get better players, don't sign that guy to long-term deals, and just be better. The reality is more difficult.
This is the long-term approach. We got the coach back everyone wanted. Are we happy with a 3-4 win season. Nah. Have we reduced the loss margins. Yeah.
Some little positives from last night
Scrum was better under Way's whistle
Nareki was sharp in the first half
TUJ looked good running wideOur loosies are running on fumes at the moment. Especially if Withy gets suspended. One of Howden or Haig may need to play eight.
Being negative is fine. It is exhausting though.
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I think it is important to note, that as I said before the season, we could get better, but get worse outcomes, because those around us have got better.
We won’t make the top six from here you wouldn’t think, but if we win 2/5 against the Chiefs, Crusaders & Hurricanes it would be tough to say there hasn’t been progress.
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It’s a hard one for the coaches but I’m sure Jamie Joseph already knows who he wants, or doesn’t want for that matter, out there starting next week against the Drua.
In my opinion, I think Tele’a offers us so much stability in the midfield, most notably in defense. Nothing against Umaga-Jenson, he has actually been great since returning, but Tele’a just seems to be provide stability and seemed to have a nice combination with Tavatavanawai.
Next week id like to see Millar back in 10, Taine Robinsons last 2 weeks have been well below expectations and doesn’t deserve to start next week.
Tele’a back in 13.
If Haig is fit, back in the 23 for Loft, if Withy is suspended along with Broughton and Renton still out injured it could mean running Stodart at 8(which is his preferred position anyway).
Fakatava in for Lennox.
Unfortunately, in week 9 , we are in a position where we just need to win a game. Can put a line through the top 6, but a win would at least boost the spirits and hopefully get us back to earlier season form. Would also help prevent the wheels from falling completely off.
On to next week.
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Renton should be back, he warmed up with the team I noticed:
- de Groot
- Bell
- Kautai
- Holland
- Stodart
- Haig
- Loft
- Renton
- Fakatava
- Millar
- Nareki
- Umaga-Jensen
- Tele’a
- Tavatavanawai
- Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens
- Vikena
- Bartlett
- Ma’u
- Howden
- Broughton
- Hastie
- Robinson (To come on at 15)
- J Whaanga
Season is gone, a few guys (like Tangitau, Dunshea & Lasaqa) could do with a rest, so give them one. I think this would be a decent game to see how Josh Whaanga copes at this level, especially as they have given him a three year contract
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I'll be very surprised if we see Josh Whaanga this year. I'm just not sure what they see him as, right now. He is an absolute beanpole. Which means even at just under 100kgs he is pretty lean. Probably doesn't have the top end pace to be competitive as a winger. However it is where he was named for Taieri on the weekend. If he is to be a Super centre. He probably needs to be playing at about 110kg.
Nice to see you are persevering with your dream of Henry Bell starting.
The big storylines next week will be how Haig and JRK are integrated back into the side
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@SouthernMann Fairly simple one with me for Bell. Vikena needs a rest, and Jack Taylor has been honking.
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
If he is to be a Super centre. He probably needs to be playing at about 110kg.
What makes you say 110kg just out of curiosity? That is the extreme end of weight for a 13. Levi Aumua isn’t even listed at that weight(granted not always accurate). In recent times, 12’s are generally your larger/heavier midfielder.
J.Whaanga is already a big unit, he’s around 6ft 4 and 100kg. If he were to go to 110kg that could potentially ruin him. 102-105 be the sweet spot for his style of play, he isn’t exactly a bash it up consistently type of midfielder.
Maybe they requested he play wing on the weekend so he can the next guy up behind Manson if another winger to go down. After what we saw last night, I wouldn't be mad if he surpassed Manson in the pecking order until Whaanga shows otherwise.
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Just been looking at the post match stats, and comparing them to the Blues game, I think it is noticeable we have gone away from what worked:
v Force: https://super.rugby/superrugby/match-centre/match-packs/2025-rd8/2025-rd8-western-force-v-highlanders-post-match-statistics/
v Blues: https://super.rugby/superrugby/match-centre/match-packs/2025-rd2/2025-rd2-highlanders-v-blues-post-match-statistics/Kicking
- Kicked 28 times v the Blues compared to just 17 v the Force
- Robinson kicked 7 times, and Hurley 4 v the Blues, compared to last night where Robinson kicked just 2x, and Gilbert just 1x, so in effect we are doing all of our kicking off 9
I don't yet have the statistics for distance kicked, but I could guess this is drastically down... the gameplan was originally turn these bigger teams around, yet now we are trying to play bully boy rugby, but we just don't have the size in the forwards for it.
In the first four games, you can pinpoint moments where we had huge momentum swings by taking quick taps, or by turning the opposition around to force 50/22s... I don't know why they have gone away from it.
We had 34% territory last night, which was partially down to the cards, but even still, the ability to turn them around was non-existent.
Cam Millar kicked the ball 10 times when we beat the Crusaders last year, and 16 times when we beat Moana in awful conditions in Tonga. I think Taine Robinson clearly controls the backline well, but he himself is quite limited, and it is now showing... Millar's absence as we have struggled to control the territory in games is weirder the more I think about it, because he has been available for certainly the last two, if not the last three weeks.
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It also worth mentioning. And it's no excuse or not going to change results
But as of week 8, the Highlanders have played all 4 Australian sides. 3 away from home. But no other NZ side has played a game in Australia yet ( apart from Moana) Yet we have played 3 times
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@cala7x said in Highlanders 2025:
It also worth mentioning. And it's no excuse or not going to change results
But as of week 8, the Highlanders have played all 4 Australian sides. 3 away from home. But no other NZ side has played a game in Australia yet ( apart from Moana) Yet we have played 3 times
If anything that's a benefit for the Highlanders...
Would much rather play the Australian teams in Australia than an NZ team in NZ (even at home).
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
It was always clear there was going to be an I told you so post by Mr InLondon post this performance.
Negativity is fine. If there is reflection and reality paired with it. Being negative with a single performance is fine.
But, what is the solution?
As I said. It is easy to say get better players, don't sign that guy to long-term deals, and just be better. The reality is more difficult.
This is the long-term approach. We got the coach back everyone wanted. Are we happy with a 3-4 win season. Nah. Have we reduced the loss margins. Yeah.
Some little positives from last night
Scrum was better under Way's whistle
Nareki was sharp in the first half
TUJ looked good running wideOur loosies are running on fumes at the moment. Especially if Withy gets suspended. One of Howden or Haig may need to play eight.
Being negative is fine. It is exhausting though.
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
It was always clear there was going to be an I told you so post by Mr InLondon post this performance.
Negativity is fine. If there is reflection and reality paired with it. Being negative with a single performance is fine.
But, what is the solution?
As I said. It is easy to say get better players, don't sign that guy to long-term deals, and just be better. The reality is more difficult.
This is the long-term approach. We got the coach back everyone wanted. Are we happy with a 3-4 win season. Nah. Have we reduced the loss margins. Yeah.
Some little positives from last night
Scrum was better under Way's whistle
Nareki was sharp in the first half
TUJ looked good running wideOur loosies are running on fumes at the moment. Especially if Withy gets suspended. One of Howden or Haig may need to play eight.
Being negative is fine. It is exhausting though.
I’ve been positive for the past 3-4 years. That’s been exhausting. It’s a reflection of watching a lot of these players debut at NPC, watching pretty much every match, and concluding something had gone seriously wrong here.
One or two more seasons like this, you think this young core generation with stick around? French clubs are circling. That contract Hicks took was offered to 2-3 others as well. Players like Gilbert, Withy, TUJ, Nareki know they’re not All Blacks. Japan will look increasingly attractive for them. Other clubs both domestic and overseas will continue to put offers to the likes of Haig and Holland. Say Holland or Haig make one or two ABs caps. They then get an offer from another super rugby team saying hey, we need a new lock or six. Want to come? Or a French club offers them €150k a year to play in the south of France. You think they’re sticking around?
You’ll blink and the promising young core will be gone. Most of these players won’t be stupid. They’ll realise if they stick around in a team that historically underperforms and doesn’t produce all blacks, they won’t go anywhere. The underlying issues that are plain to see in both the Otago and Highlanders needs to be admitted and addressed. The constant dropped balls, the constant poor decision making, the constant inability to close out a game. The failure to do the basics right every single match. That’s can’t be put down to game to game mistakes. Be a realist. The naive optimism we have at the start of every season needs to stop.
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@KiwiInLondon you keep talking about ‘underlying issues’ like you know something the rest of us don’t, yet you haven’t told us what they are.
If you are so adamant that’s what it is then elaborate for us, we are all happy to hear it, it’s what this forum is for after all. Don’t just say ‘the failure to do the basics right’ or ‘constant dropped balls’, anyone can say that for any team. Genuinely curious at this point at what you’re referring to.
