Highlanders 2025
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It’s a hard one for the coaches but I’m sure Jamie Joseph already knows who he wants, or doesn’t want for that matter, out there starting next week against the Drua.
In my opinion, I think Tele’a offers us so much stability in the midfield, most notably in defense. Nothing against Umaga-Jenson, he has actually been great since returning, but Tele’a just seems to be provide stability and seemed to have a nice combination with Tavatavanawai.
Next week id like to see Millar back in 10, Taine Robinsons last 2 weeks have been well below expectations and doesn’t deserve to start next week.
Tele’a back in 13.
If Haig is fit, back in the 23 for Loft, if Withy is suspended along with Broughton and Renton still out injured it could mean running Stodart at 8(which is his preferred position anyway).
Fakatava in for Lennox.
Unfortunately, in week 9 , we are in a position where we just need to win a game. Can put a line through the top 6, but a win would at least boost the spirits and hopefully get us back to earlier season form. Would also help prevent the wheels from falling completely off.
On to next week.
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Renton should be back, he warmed up with the team I noticed:
- de Groot
- Bell
- Kautai
- Holland
- Stodart
- Haig
- Loft
- Renton
- Fakatava
- Millar
- Nareki
- Umaga-Jensen
- Tele’a
- Tavatavanawai
- Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens
- Vikena
- Bartlett
- Ma’u
- Howden
- Broughton
- Hastie
- Robinson (To come on at 15)
- J Whaanga
Season is gone, a few guys (like Tangitau, Dunshea & Lasaqa) could do with a rest, so give them one. I think this would be a decent game to see how Josh Whaanga copes at this level, especially as they have given him a three year contract
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I'll be very surprised if we see Josh Whaanga this year. I'm just not sure what they see him as, right now. He is an absolute beanpole. Which means even at just under 100kgs he is pretty lean. Probably doesn't have the top end pace to be competitive as a winger. However it is where he was named for Taieri on the weekend. If he is to be a Super centre. He probably needs to be playing at about 110kg.
Nice to see you are persevering with your dream of Henry Bell starting.
The big storylines next week will be how Haig and JRK are integrated back into the side
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@SouthernMann Fairly simple one with me for Bell. Vikena needs a rest, and Jack Taylor has been honking.
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
If he is to be a Super centre. He probably needs to be playing at about 110kg.
What makes you say 110kg just out of curiosity? That is the extreme end of weight for a 13. Levi Aumua isn’t even listed at that weight(granted not always accurate). In recent times, 12’s are generally your larger/heavier midfielder.
J.Whaanga is already a big unit, he’s around 6ft 4 and 100kg. If he were to go to 110kg that could potentially ruin him. 102-105 be the sweet spot for his style of play, he isn’t exactly a bash it up consistently type of midfielder.
Maybe they requested he play wing on the weekend so he can the next guy up behind Manson if another winger to go down. After what we saw last night, I wouldn't be mad if he surpassed Manson in the pecking order until Whaanga shows otherwise.
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Just been looking at the post match stats, and comparing them to the Blues game, I think it is noticeable we have gone away from what worked:
v Force: https://super.rugby/superrugby/match-centre/match-packs/2025-rd8/2025-rd8-western-force-v-highlanders-post-match-statistics/
v Blues: https://super.rugby/superrugby/match-centre/match-packs/2025-rd2/2025-rd2-highlanders-v-blues-post-match-statistics/Kicking
- Kicked 28 times v the Blues compared to just 17 v the Force
- Robinson kicked 7 times, and Hurley 4 v the Blues, compared to last night where Robinson kicked just 2x, and Gilbert just 1x, so in effect we are doing all of our kicking off 9
I don't yet have the statistics for distance kicked, but I could guess this is drastically down... the gameplan was originally turn these bigger teams around, yet now we are trying to play bully boy rugby, but we just don't have the size in the forwards for it.
In the first four games, you can pinpoint moments where we had huge momentum swings by taking quick taps, or by turning the opposition around to force 50/22s... I don't know why they have gone away from it.
We had 34% territory last night, which was partially down to the cards, but even still, the ability to turn them around was non-existent.
Cam Millar kicked the ball 10 times when we beat the Crusaders last year, and 16 times when we beat Moana in awful conditions in Tonga. I think Taine Robinson clearly controls the backline well, but he himself is quite limited, and it is now showing... Millar's absence as we have struggled to control the territory in games is weirder the more I think about it, because he has been available for certainly the last two, if not the last three weeks.
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It also worth mentioning. And it's no excuse or not going to change results
But as of week 8, the Highlanders have played all 4 Australian sides. 3 away from home. But no other NZ side has played a game in Australia yet ( apart from Moana) Yet we have played 3 times
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@cala7x said in Highlanders 2025:
It also worth mentioning. And it's no excuse or not going to change results
But as of week 8, the Highlanders have played all 4 Australian sides. 3 away from home. But no other NZ side has played a game in Australia yet ( apart from Moana) Yet we have played 3 times
If anything that's a benefit for the Highlanders...
Would much rather play the Australian teams in Australia than an NZ team in NZ (even at home).
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
It was always clear there was going to be an I told you so post by Mr InLondon post this performance.
Negativity is fine. If there is reflection and reality paired with it. Being negative with a single performance is fine.
But, what is the solution?
As I said. It is easy to say get better players, don't sign that guy to long-term deals, and just be better. The reality is more difficult.
This is the long-term approach. We got the coach back everyone wanted. Are we happy with a 3-4 win season. Nah. Have we reduced the loss margins. Yeah.
Some little positives from last night
Scrum was better under Way's whistle
Nareki was sharp in the first half
TUJ looked good running wideOur loosies are running on fumes at the moment. Especially if Withy gets suspended. One of Howden or Haig may need to play eight.
Being negative is fine. It is exhausting though.
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
It was always clear there was going to be an I told you so post by Mr InLondon post this performance.
Negativity is fine. If there is reflection and reality paired with it. Being negative with a single performance is fine.
But, what is the solution?
As I said. It is easy to say get better players, don't sign that guy to long-term deals, and just be better. The reality is more difficult.
This is the long-term approach. We got the coach back everyone wanted. Are we happy with a 3-4 win season. Nah. Have we reduced the loss margins. Yeah.
Some little positives from last night
Scrum was better under Way's whistle
Nareki was sharp in the first half
TUJ looked good running wideOur loosies are running on fumes at the moment. Especially if Withy gets suspended. One of Howden or Haig may need to play eight.
Being negative is fine. It is exhausting though.
I’ve been positive for the past 3-4 years. That’s been exhausting. It’s a reflection of watching a lot of these players debut at NPC, watching pretty much every match, and concluding something had gone seriously wrong here.
One or two more seasons like this, you think this young core generation with stick around? French clubs are circling. That contract Hicks took was offered to 2-3 others as well. Players like Gilbert, Withy, TUJ, Nareki know they’re not All Blacks. Japan will look increasingly attractive for them. Other clubs both domestic and overseas will continue to put offers to the likes of Haig and Holland. Say Holland or Haig make one or two ABs caps. They then get an offer from another super rugby team saying hey, we need a new lock or six. Want to come? Or a French club offers them €150k a year to play in the south of France. You think they’re sticking around?
You’ll blink and the promising young core will be gone. Most of these players won’t be stupid. They’ll realise if they stick around in a team that historically underperforms and doesn’t produce all blacks, they won’t go anywhere. The underlying issues that are plain to see in both the Otago and Highlanders needs to be admitted and addressed. The constant dropped balls, the constant poor decision making, the constant inability to close out a game. The failure to do the basics right every single match. That’s can’t be put down to game to game mistakes. Be a realist. The naive optimism we have at the start of every season needs to stop.
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@KiwiInLondon you keep talking about ‘underlying issues’ like you know something the rest of us don’t, yet you haven’t told us what they are.
If you are so adamant that’s what it is then elaborate for us, we are all happy to hear it, it’s what this forum is for after all. Don’t just say ‘the failure to do the basics right’ or ‘constant dropped balls’, anyone can say that for any team. Genuinely curious at this point at what you’re referring to.
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Bit of an essay, but perhaps a more reasoned view now that I have calmed down a little.
Across the board we are the most competitive we have been in years. In every season since Mauger arrived we have copped at least one, if not several hidings (of course it could still come this year). I do think the coaches have probably dropped the ball a little bit in regards to squad selection both at the start of the season and over the past few weeks.. that said, with who has been an injured/a dickhead off the field, I think their hands are somewhat tied.
For example, I hate us playing two opensides, but I am not actually convinced Will Stodart would have changed all this. We could have picked an extra lock in the squad, but someone like Will Tucker still isn't Super Rugby standard (though it might have allowed us to get more out of Dunshea/Holland).
I'm going to say Jamie and those above him are not stupid, and they have somewhat taken a long-term view with it to win by 2027, which is the only way you can go about this. Presumably we negotiated with other locks, but obviously couldn't find anyone good - and they don't want to offer two year deals to shit players, which I think is a fair stance when trying to build a team.
We're in an odd position because we fucked up our recruitment so badly between 2020-2023, and it is only now we are not paying the price for it, so in many ways, the clock on the rebuild only properly started last year.
Year One was get the shit out the door, which we did a good job of, Year Two was get some talent in, which we seemingly have done a somewhat decent job of. Year Three there has to be genuine improvements, but there is no reason to suggest that there won't be. We need to sure up the loose forwards, but I also think losing Haig and to a lesser extent Renton has exposed a real lack of depth. Those two are solutions within the squad who have been unavailable.
I don't think it is a coincidence that our win over the Blues coincides with the only elite fullback performance of the season (Hurley), was the only game Fakatava has started, was the last game Renton played (even if I thought he was disappointing at the time) and was the last time we employed a 6-2 to split. I suspect the loose forward crisis probably ruined the plan to operate in a 6-2 split, because I can categorically say we were going to do it against the Canes before unforeseen circumstances.
I'm happy to die on the hill that we are going about this the right way, and so long as you keep this squad together, the right coach has this squad challenging in 2027. On paper, our squad is the weakest of the New Zealand sides, and truthfully is probably weaker than the Brumbies, Waratahs and Reds too, so to be where we are as of now shouldn't be that surprising.
Looking ahead to next year...
Front row will be opportunist based I'd suspect. They'll hold Wingham unless we can pinch a really strong player off someone else, and I just don't see that happening, unless an older guy comes back from overseas. DLB will go probably to be replaced Jack Sexton or Ben Lopas. FWIW, I think Bartlett will prove a shrewd signing. For a 22 year-old, I like what I've seen.
At lock, they'll keep what they have if they can, and will add Tengbald. IMO they should add another guy on top of that, but with Haig fit, Howden may play at lock, and that may be okay.
In the loose, if Michaels & Naeta leave, we'd have room for one more - which I'd assume the aim could be for Tupou Tae'iloa. If they shake either Renton or Broughton too, then they'd probably want to keep Loft around. If we go back to a conventional loose forward trio, then Lasaqa is benched in a 6-2 split, or doesn't play at all, and so the third openside is unlikely to play much. The big thing though, is we must find a proper eight, for the here and now. Be that Semisi Tupou Ta'eiloa, or the owners getting their wallet out to find someone else. A bold play could be Devan Flanders (though he is contracted until 2026), but that did not stop Howden.
The rest of the backline is going to pretty well the same. The halfbacks will be 3 of Hastie, Pledger, Arscott, Fakatava & Lennox. Lowe will be replaced by a fullback I think, and Faleafaga will be replaced by another 10. The only other way we need another player in the backs is if someone leaves. If we keep hold of what we have, we are largely fine in the backs I think.
That might leave a best XV of:
- de Groot
- Vikena (Who has gone under the radar as a good bit of business)
- Ma'u
- Howden
- Holland
- Haig
- Withy
- Tupou Tae'iloa
- Fakatava
- Millar
- Nareki
- Tavatavanawai
- Tele'a
- Tangitau
- Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens
We are never going to be a side with 10+ All Blacks, but we could be a side with 6 or 7, and some really strong players around it. I personally think de Groot, Holland, Tangitau & Haig are all All Black level talents. Jim and JRK are fringe guys, and there are a few others who with consistency and improvements could push. Dylan Pledger is the best player to come out of the region since Ben Smith I'd suggest, and he might even be the starting halfback by the end of the year.
You keep that XV largely fit, with some decent players to come in off the bench, and we go better. The squad is going to again be in improved shape.
Maybe I am too positive, but I suspect this to turn around long-term with the players we have at our disposal.
This season is a write off, but I suspect Haig, Fakatava and JRK to make a huge difference to this. Six wins might be enough to make the top six the way things are going, and we have four games left at Forsyth Barr... weirder things have happened.
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One of the Highlanders' problems over the past couple of years is they seem to be relying on young guys making the grade fairly quickly and slotting into the top 23. That's simply not realistic. Most youngsters take a good three or four years to get up scratch, and more still never successfully make the step up at all.
Haig is the only one in recent years that has made the grade and he's from the 2022 U20s in-take. Otherwise, you've got all of the below since 2020...
Super Rugby starter
George Bell (gone to Crusaders)
Fabian Holland (from Crusaders)
Saula Ma'uSuper Rugby standard
Sean WithyNearing Super Rugby standard but still might never make it
Nathan Hastie
Fin Hurley
Cam MillarCompletely unproven
Hayden Michaels
Jake te HiwiNever stepped up
James Arscott
Harrison Boyle
Jake Russ (NZ 2020 WTS)Future prospects
A-One Lolofie
Dylan Pledger
Josh WhaangaThe hit-rate isn't very high - which is the same for all the other Super Rugby sides, they just tend to have a bigger number of players coming through at any one time so it's not as big of an issue.
External recruitment will be key - it's what earned the Highlanders their title in 2015 and it's the only thing that will again make them a threat in the future.
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@Mr-Fish said in Highlanders 2025:
One of the Highlanders' problems over the past couple of years is they seem to be relying on young guys making the grade fairly quickly and slotting into the top 23. That's simply not realistic. Most youngsters take a good three or four years to get up scratch, and more still never successfully make the step up at all.
Haig is the only one in recent years that has made the grade and he's from the 2022 U20s in-take. Otherwise, you've got all of the below since 2020...
Super Rugby starter
George Bell (gone to Crusaders)
Fabian Holland (from Crusaders)
Saula Ma'uSuper Rugby standard
Sean WithyNearing Super Rugby standard but still might never make it
Nathan Hastie
Fin Hurley
Cam MillarCompletely unproven
Hayden Michaels
Jake te HiwiNever stepped up
James Arscott
Harrison Boyle
Jake Russ (NZ 2020 WTS)Future prospects
A-One Lolofie
Dylan Pledger
Josh WhaangaThe hit-rate isn't very high - which is the same for all the other Super Rugby sides, they just tend to have a bigger number of players coming through at any one time so it's not as big of an issue.
External recruitment will be key - it's what earned the Highlanders their title in 2015 and it's the only thing that will again make them a threat in the future.
That’s what the Highlanders have done though - that’s the point. We could do with a number eight, and another lock is on the way, but other than we actually need to stick with this group of players. We can’t keep turning over 12 players ever year.
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so...the loss on the weekend feels even worse for me, let me explain
was busy on sat and so had to watch on delay i flicked it on stan and if the game is still playing you have to do some weird thing where to goes to the Live point and then you re wind, hoping to do it quickly and not see the score....i failed and saw just after halftime we were winning 36-14.........que nearly two hours wondering when we would kick off....even very late int he game i was convinced id read the time and their score wrong and we were going to score a few very late tries......no idea what i saw.....that was a painful watch made worse by hope
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@Bovidae said in Highlanders 2025:
@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
We could do with a number eight
Vaiolini Ekuasi might have been available when the Rebels folded. But he went to the Force.
The question you have to ask yourself, is would any of the other NZ sides want Ekuasi?
We have a few of these players playing currently. Have Howden and Lasaqa been good? I think they've been reasonable, but on current form would they start (or even make the bench) for other NZ sides? I don't think so.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2025:
so...the loss on the weekend feels even worse for me, let me explain
was busy on sat and so had to watch on delay i flicked it on stan and if the game is still playing you have to do some weird thing where to goes to the Live point and then you re wind, hoping to do it quickly and not see the score....i failed and saw just after halftime we were winning 36-14.........que nearly two hours wondering when we would kick off....even very late int he game i was convinced id read the time and their score wrong and we were going to score a few very late tries......no idea what i saw.....that was a painful watch made worse by hope
really for me if the game is still playing I can just move across to the "More" tag press it and it gives me a start option which takes me to the start of the broadcast.
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@Kiwiwomble two things.
I get what you mean, if you go to the first option at the top of the screen it takes you immediately to "watch live". But pretty sure if you click "Rugby", "Live and Upcoming" then select the game you get the option to "Watch from Start" (in addition to the "watch live" option). You then have to fast forward about half an hour. (I think)
Reckon you saw the time at 36:14. I've done that.
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@Chris said in Highlanders 2025:
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2025:
so...the loss on the weekend feels even worse for me, let me explain
was busy on sat and so had to watch on delay i flicked it on stan and if the game is still playing you have to do some weird thing where to goes to the Live point and then you re wind, hoping to do it quickly and not see the score....i failed and saw just after halftime we were winning 36-14.........que nearly two hours wondering when we would kick off....even very late int he game i was convinced id read the time and their score wrong and we were going to score a few very late tries......no idea what i saw.....that was a painful watch made worse by hope
really for me if the game is still playing I can just move across to the "More" tag press it and it gives me a start option which takes me to the start of the broadcast.
with my app even if it select from start it only goes to maybe 45mins behind live
@booboo said in Highlanders 2025:
@Kiwiwomble two things.
Reckon you saw the time at 36:14. I've done that.
you're probably right, i must have seen something else though as i saw the time too and it was early in the second half...either way my own stupid brain set me up for some pain
