All Blacks 2025
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse yeah tough one eh, reckon with our aging and leaving outside backs, there's got to be a punt on some newbies and what better opportunity than a touring french side? Worked wonders just over 20 years ago.
Carter would be an interesting one too, shades of Jane, his "style" might work well at test level.
French series an ideal opportunity to experiment a bit. Not just new ABs, but the likes of Love, Lakai, etc. A give players like QT & Sami T some serious game time.
Don't disagree with you, but there is the obvious problem with NZers not accepting a loss - especially to an under strength side. AB legacy and all that.
Is it actually a fact that France are going to turn up with a B side? Haven’t heard much more on this coming out of France other than what was thrown out there last year by their coach
Edit: Just scrolled down and saw the stuff article - so expect nearly a full strength team to be touring
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@mariner4life I guess my point in a nutshell is that the guy you bring in has to have a good chance of being better.
"Giving someone a go" because they're "Not XYX" isn't a sound plan.
And yet it's pretty easy for us to say that Razor should give someone a go. If that guy loses a tight test match for us, it will be the same people howling for Razor's head. It's part of the reason the coaches are so conservative - and, why, for instance it looks like Billy Proctor was under-utilized last year. They didn't want to risk giving him a go against the big teams.
On my boy Davy, I'm sure he knows he's on thin ice. Despite the seemingly common perception that he's one of Razor's favourites - when it comes to AB selection - he's not.
I'm pretty sure he was the only member of the RWC squad who didn't make Razor's first squad.
He got three goes of the bench last year. Once against Australia, when Jordie was injured and Razor said they'd planned to play Billy, but he wasn't seen as adequate cover for 2nd five. One against Japan, when Jordie and Rieko had flown ahead to Europe. And once vs Italy when again Jordie was injured and Billy had come home for baby birthing.
As I said last year - he's probably the third best second-five and his closest contender was a converted wing who had only played a handful of games in the position (nostrildamus can tell us how many).
If everyone was fit this year, I'm sure they'd pick Tupaea ahead of him. Tupaea will (IMO) get picked anyway, they need his midfield utility value, but Dave might get a reprieve while ALB is unavailable. Or they might pick Higgins (but he'll be lucky to get a run - and I'm not sure they'd want to give him a debut vs France if injury dictated it).
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
the guy you bring in has to have a good chance of being better
while i get this, how exactly are you going to know if you don't give it a crack? Look at the fundamentals or what they bring and make a call. Known substandard quantities racking up squad selections because there is no guarantee someone isn't going to do better is cowardice.
I keep thinking about the French back 3, which i rate as the best in the game. Those guys are reckless renegades who would never get AB caps because they make glaring fuck ups while trying shit. Penaud is amazing but by christ he can make a clanger. That would never be tolerated by NZ selectors, and they would be left to rot behind known quantities who don't have their upside, but are seen as a safer pair of hands.
The interesting juxtaposition is the leeway these same players would get in NZ if they already had 80 caps.
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Can i just say, the same names get a constant kicking on here, and i am as guilty of it as anyone, and feel bad about it as they are good footballers. And it seems weird that it's effectively squaddies that we squabble over.
But, in my mind at least, they represent a problem the selectors created for themselves. In my eyes the underperforming units last year were the loosies and the backline. And even if the coaches wanted to make a change, they move the starters magnets to the side of the board, look at who they have to bring in, and think "oh, nah, maybe not aye".
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@mariner4life I don't like slagging people off either. There has never been a Super rugby player who isn't about five dimensions better than I ever was.
And I don't disagree with what you're saying - but, in regard to the loosies, the two guys you mentioned weren't the worst loosie IMO. But Kaino got sent away to work on his game and came back better!
On the French back three - look at the kicking Will Jordan got on here last year and not just by his No. 5.5 million fan.
You coud gather up a fair quantity of regular posters who agreed he's not a fullback.He's looked pretty good there in Super.
He's (I think still) scoring test tries faster than anyone in history. And while he's doing it he can also make a clanger
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I like to think my criticisms of players have made them strive to be better, addressing the clear deficiencies I rant about.
And when they do, I acknowledge that they're better - some even deserving of/ demanding selection.
Quite frankly, some of them should thank me.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
He's looked pretty good there in Super.
Looked almost as good as Stevenson or Harkin, pretty good effort.
Unfortunately got made to look like a pretender by an old fuck called in last minute on return from a bad injury in the weekend. A Welsh outcast, no less.
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@antipodean I just want Will to realise there's 14 other players on the park on his side (15 if he's playing for the saders).
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean I just want Will to realise there's 14 other players on the park on his side (15 if he's playing for the saders).
I've been watching Jordan more and while his ability to put other players into space isn't class leading, a considerable amount of that must be because he's injecting himself in the line and others have to catch up.
What is obvious is how much he communicates, which is very important for a fullback.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life I guess my point in a nutshell is that the guy you bring in has to have a good chance of being better.
As I said last year - he's probably the third best second-five and his closest contender was a converted wing who had only played a handful of games in the position (nostrildamus can tell us how many).
If everyone was fit this year, I'm sure they'd pick Tupaea ahead of him. Tupaea will (IMO) get picked anyway, they need his midfield utility value, but Dave might get a reprieve while ALB is unavailable. Or they might pick Higgins (but he'll be lucky to get a run - and I'm not sure they'd want to give him a debut vs France if injury dictated it).
I'm not a Havili hater, and I think picking on a guy for the underperformance of a team where he barely plays is ridiculous. But he's not better than Lam, Higgins, Tavatavanawai, Tupaea - or Barrett or ALB.
I think all of those players potentially offer a valuable point(s) of difference too. We had a specialist wing on the bench at times last year, and Lam or Jim stop that. Higgins is creative and the best offloader. Jim and Tupaea (to a lesser extent) with breakdown work, and stronger carries from arguably all of them. -
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
What is obvious is how much he communicates, which is very important for a fullback.
And a centre. Faith restoring to see Rieko leading the team chats in the weekend.
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@reprobate I think Lam may well get picked as a wing who can cover the midfield. In the absence of ALB that's a valuable attribute.
Jordie is clearly the number 1 second five and ALB when fit is number 2. On form, I'd pick Tupaea ahead of Davey. Not convinced the others are currently better - we may find out if they're put to the test.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate I think Lam may well get picked as a wing who can cover the midfield. In the absence of ALB that's a valuable attribute.
Jordie is clearly the number 1 second five and ALB when fit is number 2. On form, I'd pick Tupaea ahead of Davey. Not convinced the others are currently better - we may find out if they're put to the test.
Well it depends on what you want in that position of course. I think Tavatavanawai has been very impressive for the highlanders, but he is a very different player. Higgins likewise - has some weaknesses, but his hands and ability to keep the ball alive are a big attacking upside.
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@reprobate if we end up with BB at 10, Jim would be the best pairing I reckon.
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@Chris-B i don't like Jordan at fullback yet because I don't think he's great st bringing other people in to the game or kicking.
Fucking great winger though -
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate if we end up with BB at 10, Jim would be the best pairing I reckon.
If we end up with BB at 10 just pick who ever chases shit kicks the best
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate if we end up with BB at 10, Jim would be the best pairing I reckon.
If we end up with BB at 10 just pick who ever chases shit kicks the best
Beauden can kick it away, and Jim can go and get it back.
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@reprobate I like the look of Higgins - hopefully he makes the grade. He's definitely a good distributor and I think that's what you need at second five in elite international rugby.
Even though Big Jim is one of my Ta$man boys - I'm still to be convinced he's what we need at second five. Carries well. Excellent pilferer. Can he distribute effectively? Can he kick effectively? At elite international level?
There's been much criticism that even with Jordie and Rieko in the midfield, we're poor distributors. I'm sceptical about sticking converted wings in there and expecting it to improve.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B i don't like Jordan at fullback yet because I don't think he's great st bringing other people in to the game or kicking.
Fucking great winger thoughAren't you the guy saying the coaches need to take some risks?
If you're like me and you want DMac starting at first five and Jordie playing second five, who do you want at fullback?
It's going to be Will and it's not close.
