CTE - Should We Be More Concerned?
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@reprobate said in CTE - Should We Be More Concerned?:
@nonpartizan revisiting subs is an option - the changes there have definitely moved the game away from what it was and towards bigger players and bigger impacts.
ball in play more:
less penalties, more free kicks.
faster scrums (and/or time off until the ball goes in).could even look at making the game 10 minutes longer.
Good suggestions.
I think always tweaking the laws (and the way the game is reffed and coached) to reward cardio and enterprising skilful rugby is in the best interests of the sport. It seems super rugby this season have done that in speeding the game up and keeping the ball in play more. I think that is a good development.
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@Bones said in CTE - Should We Be More Concerned?:
Only issue with making players play longer is that could likely lead to even more injuries with fatigued players going past breaking point and/or making more mistakes.
agreed. fatigue may lessen the force but increase the likelihood of something sloppy happening.
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For those interested, Ross Tucker is the World Rugby concussion specialist and has done lots of work on risk factors etc, think he was behind the smart mouthguards trial as well. What they've seen in those trials is that the head accelerations are not always from head shots, and concussion is caused by the brain bouncing off the skull, irrespective of direct impact.
re the subsititutions point, the data shows that fatigued players get injured and head injuries more often than fresh players so whilst you could make the case for the reduction of subs on the basis of the spirit of the game etc, i'm not sure you can on the basis of reducing injury etc
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@Dodge This is what makes it so challenging, how many brain bouncing do players endure without knowing it. I think that is one of the problems the guy in the podcast mentioned, he just didnt know how many concussions he had received until he suffered serious concussion symptoms.
Do you have any idea of the stand down periods and do they get longer the more HIA you fail, are there any rules in terms of how many you are allowed per season etc?
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Professional Level (Elite Rugby):
If a player is diagnosed with a concussion, the minimum stand-down period is 12 days.Exception: This can be reduced to 7 days if the player is:
Diagnosed by an independent match-day doctor,
Managed within the Elite Player Welfare Standards,
Cleared through a carefully monitored GRTP by a team doctor, and
Symptom-free and performs normally in cognitive testing.
This "7-day return" is only possible in very specific professional environments with stringent oversight.
Community and Youth Rugby:
The minimum stand-down period is 21 days, with no early return option, to better protect younger or amateur players. -
@Dodge Thanks for that, seems strange that pro players can be 7/12 days whilst the rest are 21, do pro players have extra padding in their heads? Seems they are most at risk of long-term damage. I wonder if one day we will look back and wonder why we accepted 7 days was ok.
So, nothing in relation to the number of HIA fails over seasons or careers and length of stand down?
7 Days seems more of a system to get the player playing the following week then for player safety if that makes sense.
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I think the difference in stand down periods is based on the quality of medical care and review that the professional players have access too, which allows the diagnosis to be more accurate.
As far as i'm aware, the number of HIA fails etc a player has does have an affect on their individual RTP protocols but i'm not sure there are any mandatory extensions of those periods.
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@Dodge I understand but it is slightly ironic there is no test for CTE and it is continued concussions which cause it, saying medical professionals can somehow grade the severity of the concussion is interesting. I get that players can report no symptoms and have no cognitive issues but I just find it odd that we can somehow delineate between, 7/12/21 days stand down based on a condition that appears to be not that well understood.
I think its great we have the system we have now but it will be interesting to see how things change as the science changes. I do find it strange there is not some sort of mandatory extensions based on total number of HIA fails in a season/lifetime.
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Sad reading stories like this.......
'No worries' - Legendary France forward Sebastien Chabal has revisited his shocking memory loss claim
France rugby legend Sebastien Chabal has explained he will consult a Lyon-based sports doctor next Thursday following his recent memory loss revelation.
Lots of my favourite Rugby players are mental French forwards and he was always high up the list. I walked past him on Lambton Quay some years back, not super tall but hands like shovels and his arms pretty much went down to his knees. Ridiculous build on him. Would have a seven foot wingspan easily.
He seemed to come out better off in most of his collisions but clearly this came at a cost to him personally.
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not to take the thread off track but one of my favourite 'at game moments' was watching my mates brother play for Sale against Quins at the Stoop, we were allowed in the players bar during the game and after to get beers, I went in at the c60 min mark to grab a pint just after Chabal had been substituted to find him standing outside the back door of the bar, still in full kit, with a pint in one hand and a cigarette in the other. As you mention, watching him smoke is like watching Mr Tickle scratch his chin.
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@Dodge said in CTE - Should We Be More Concerned?:
not to take the thread off track but one of my favourite 'at game moments' was watching my mates brother play for Sale against Quins at the Stoop, we were allowed in the players bar during the game and after to get beers, I went in at the c60 min mark to grab a pint just after Chabal had been substituted to find him standing outside the back door of the bar, still in full kit, with a pint in one hand and a cigarette in the other. As you mention, watching him smoke is like watching Mr Tickle scratch his chin.
Frans Steyn has T Rex arms in comparison.
I bet Chabal can deadlift an absolute shitload
I guess my original point is that he quite rightly would have believed due to that frame he was invincible.
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@MN5 said in CTE - Should We Be More Concerned?:
@Dodge said in CTE - Should We Be More Concerned?:
not to take the thread off track but one of my favourite 'at game moments' was watching my mates brother play for Sale against Quins at the Stoop, we were allowed in the players bar during the game and after to get beers, I went in at the c60 min mark to grab a pint just after Chabal had been substituted to find him standing outside the back door of the bar, still in full kit, with a pint in one hand and a cigarette in the other. As you mention, watching him smoke is like watching Mr Tickle scratch his chin.
Frans Steyn has T Rex arms in comparison.
I bet Chabal can deadlift an absolute shitload
I guess my original point is that he quite rightly would have believed due to that frame he was invincible.
Agreed. He played at a time when the effects of CTE were not widely known (if at all) so was blissfully unaware of the damage being done in those collisions. As you say given he was such a beast he would have thought he got the best of them and therefore was safe.
I think Steve Thompson is in a similar situation - apparently remembers nothing from winning the world cup. That in itself is such a crazy thing to contemplate - your biggest success in life and you don't have memories of them so it's like they never happened.
