All Blacks 2025
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
I always wonder what Cane thinks watching all the head shots since his red in the RWC final being given yellows, 20 minute reds and bizarre off field reviews or non reviews.
That shot on Ruben love a few weeks back for example puts Canes in the ha’penny place.
He had his career turned upside down on the biggest stage by fastidious officials and has seen worse transgressions since that day go unpunished. I’d be fuming.
That's half the issue. Super Rugby is lax compared to the rest of the world when it comes to high tackles. It doesn't set our players up well.
Have you watched any European rugby this year? In the two Euro finals alone there were at least two calls which absolutely should've been red.
If anything, Super Rugby has been harsher on high tackles this year than the competitions in the north (probably because it TMOs are more comfortable giving out 20-minute reds than full reds).
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
I always wonder what Cane thinks watching all the head shots since his red in the RWC final being given yellows, 20 minute reds and bizarre off field reviews or non reviews.
That shot on Ruben love a few weeks back for example puts Canes in the ha’penny place.
He had his career turned upside down on the biggest stage by fastidious officials and has seen worse transgressions since that day go unpunished. I’d be fuming.
That's half the issue. Super Rugby is lax compared to the rest of the world when it comes to high tackles. It doesn't set our players up well.
You're right, and they ain't so forgiving up North either. It always makes me laughter when things don't get penalized as they should be, just to please the media and fans when we know if they do that with a northern ref, we'll get heavily punished and those same people will come out with the 'back in our day', 'the games gone soft' etc. etc.
It would be nice if we could swap refs and gave some of their refs come down here and vice versa for a bit during domestic comps.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
I always wonder what Cane thinks watching all the head shots since his red in the RWC final being given yellows, 20 minute reds and bizarre off field reviews or non reviews.
That shot on Ruben love a few weeks back for example puts Canes in the ha’penny place.
He had his career turned upside down on the biggest stage by fastidious officials and has seen worse transgressions since that day go unpunished. I’d be fuming.
That's half the issue. Super Rugby is lax compared to the rest of the world when it comes to high tackles. It doesn't set our players up well.
Have you watched any European rugby this year? In the two Euro finals alone there were at least two calls which absolutely should've been red.
If anything, Super Rugby has been harsher on high tackles this year than the competitions in the north (probably because it TMOs are more comfortable giving out 20-minute reds than full reds).
Just read this while I posted and have things changed up there? I only getting catch the odd game up there, but from previous watching, they were a lot more harsh?
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
I always wonder what Cane thinks watching all the head shots since his red in the RWC final being given yellows, 20 minute reds and bizarre off field reviews or non reviews.
That shot on Ruben love a few weeks back for example puts Canes in the ha’penny place.
He had his career turned upside down on the biggest stage by fastidious officials and has seen worse transgressions since that day go unpunished. I’d be fuming.
That's half the issue. Super Rugby is lax compared to the rest of the world when it comes to high tackles. It doesn't set our players up well.
Have you watched any European rugby this year? In the two Euro finals alone there were at least two calls which absolutely should've been red.
If anything, Super Rugby has been harsher on high tackles this year than the competitions in the north (probably because it TMOs are more comfortable giving out 20-minute reds than full reds).
Maybe things have changed. In the last cycle we were 100% more lax on high tackles compared to the NH.
People can dispute if it was a yellow or a red but what cannot be disputed is that it was a high tackle. It was Sam Cane who opened that door.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
Mary, Joseph and the wee fucking donkey, the Breakdown pundits were talking up the idea of Finlay Christie for this year's All Blacks squad. He must have incriminated photos of them.
Ffs. As a Blues fan I find him infuriating. He played well for half the time he was on the field on Saturdays game. Bring back Funaki.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Cane and Frizell bottled it and Savea ended up doing the work of two loose forwards.
Whatever can be said of Sam Cane as an All Black, the idea of him bottling it is def. not one of them.
He's the first player to be red carded in an RWC final because he failed to keep his discipline.
Big arrow you've drawn there between lack of bottle and getting a (dubious IMHO) red card.
Bottling it means failing to do something and he failed to keep his tackles down with a lazy high shot. He failed to keep his discipline in a high pressure game. Whether or not the red is dubious is irrelevant. It was a high shot and he created that moment which forced an official to deliberate.
If he had kept his tackle down there would be nothing for the officials to judge.
Your contention has merit when looked at in isolation, but not when Kolisi gets away with a worse transgression in the very same game.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Cane and Frizell bottled it and Savea ended up doing the work of two loose forwards.
Whatever can be said of Sam Cane as an All Black, the idea of him bottling it is def. not one of them.
He's the first player to be red carded in an RWC final because he failed to keep his discipline.
Big arrow you've drawn there between lack of bottle and getting a (dubious IMHO) red card.
Bottling it means failing to do something and he failed to keep his tackles down with a lazy high shot. He failed to keep his discipline in a high pressure game. Whether or not the red is dubious is irrelevant. It was a high shot and he created that moment which forced an official to deliberate.
If he had kept his tackle down there would be nothing for the officials to judge.
Your contention has merit when looked at in isolation, but not when Kolisi gets away with a worse transgression in the very same game.
That's also irrelevant.
All Cane had to do was keep his tackle low and we wouldn't be having this debate. Again, Cane opened the door to let a flakey NH official decide his fate. No one else during the game. Cane.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
That's also irrelevant.
Well, it is and it isn't. Get your point. But what is relevant is that Cane and Kolisi were judged by different standards.
And Ta'avao and Porter in the Irish series etc etc.
Cane's name is getting dragged through the dirt here, and if he had of gotten a fair shake in the RWC final we may well be looking at photos of him lifting the trophy.
He (we) were hatcheted by officialdom.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
That's also irrelevant.
Well, it is and it isn't. Get your point. But what is relevant is that Cane and Kolisi were judged by different standards.
I thought they were both reds but sh*t happens. The fact that Kolisi didn't get a red was unlucky for our team and lucky for theirs.
Every player that tackles high invites the possibility for a red. The players know this.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
That's also irrelevant.
Well, it is and it isn't. Get your point. But what is relevant is that Cane and Kolisi were judged by different standards.
And Ta'avao and Porter in the Irish series etc etc.
Cane's name is getting dragged through the dirt here, and if he had of gotten a fair shake in the RWC final we may well be looking at photos of him lifting the trophy.
He (we) were hatcheted by officialdom.
Forget the whataboutism.
Fact 1: Cane high tackled Kriel.
Fact 2: Officials have a framework for deliberating on cards but there is a degree of subjectivity.You open yourself up to cards when you high tackle someone.
This is overly dramatic about Cane's name being 'dragged through the dirt'. No ones saying he's a bad person. It's a game where he failed to stick to the rules. When players do that its commonly referred to as ill discipline.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
That's also irrelevant.
Well, it is and it isn't. Get your point. But what is relevant is that Cane and Kolisi were judged by different standards.
And Ta'avao and Porter in the Irish series etc etc.
Cane's name is getting dragged through the dirt here, and if he had of gotten a fair shake in the RWC final we may well be looking at photos of him lifting the trophy.
He (we) were hatcheted by officialdom.
Forget the whataboutism.
Fact 1: Cane high tackled Kriel.
Fact 2: Officials have a framework for deliberating on cards but there is a degree of subjectivity.You open yourself up to cards when you to cards when you high tackle someone.
This is overly dramatic about Cane's name being 'dragged through the dirt'. No ones saying he's a bad person. It's a game where he failed to stick to the rules. When players do that it's commonly referred to as ill discipline.
Etzebeth forearm smashed Cane in the face with a carry.
Frizzell was fouled before his slip onto the hookers knee (for a sanction I havnt seen pinged before or since).
Cane gets his red.
Kolisi gets 10 minutes.You are dealing in absolutes, when the game was reffed in anything but.
Essentially your contention and my contention are both correct concurrently.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Cane and Frizell bottled it and Savea ended up doing the work of two loose forwards.
Whatever can be said of Sam Cane as an All Black, the idea of him bottling it is def. not one of them.
He's the first player to be red carded in an RWC final because he failed to keep his discipline.
Big arrow you've drawn there between lack of bottle and getting a (dubious IMHO) red card.
Bottling it means failing to do something and he failed to keep his tackles down with a lazy high shot. He failed to keep his discipline in a high pressure game. Whether or not the red is dubious is irrelevant. It was a high shot and he created that moment which forced an official to deliberate.
If he had kept his tackle down there would be nothing for the officials to judge.
Your contention has merit when looked at in isolation, but not when Kolisi gets away with a worse transgression in the very same game.
That's also irrelevant.
All Cane had to do was keep his tackle low and we wouldn't be having this debate. Again, Cane opened the door to let a flakey NH official decide his fate. No one else during the game. Cane.
But that's the exact issue. It's impossible for any dominant tackling loosie to keep 100% of their tackles low, mistakes happen.
"All" Cane had to do is something nobody else does. For example, Kolisi in the same game - so now Kolisi is lauded by all and sundry, while you are vilifying Cane - when they did the exact same damn thing, and the only thing that really causes that polar difference is the ref's inconsistent interpretation. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Cane and Frizell bottled it and Savea ended up doing the work of two loose forwards.
Whatever can be said of Sam Cane as an All Black, the idea of him bottling it is def. not one of them.
He's the first player to be red carded in an RWC final because he failed to keep his discipline.
Big arrow you've drawn there between lack of bottle and getting a (dubious IMHO) red card.
Bottling it means failing to do something and he failed to keep his tackles down with a lazy high shot. He failed to keep his discipline in a high pressure game. Whether or not the red is dubious is irrelevant. It was a high shot and he created that moment which forced an official to deliberate.
If he had kept his tackle down there would be nothing for the officials to judge.
Your contention has merit when looked at in isolation, but not when Kolisi gets away with a worse transgression in the very same game.
That's also irrelevant.
All Cane had to do was keep his tackle low and we wouldn't be having this debate. Again, Cane opened the door to let a flakey NH official decide his fate. No one else during the game. Cane.
But that's the exact issue. It's impossible for any dominant tackling loosie to keep 100% of their tackles low, mistakes happen.
"All" Cane had to do is something nobody else does. For example, Kolisi in the same game - so now Kolisi is lauded by all and sundry, while you are vilifying Cane - when they did the exact same damn thing, and the only thing that really causes that polar difference is the ref's inconsistent interpretation.Heroes and Villains decided by a roulette wheel spin.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Cane and Frizell bottled it and Savea ended up doing the work of two loose forwards.
Whatever can be said of Sam Cane as an All Black, the idea of him bottling it is def. not one of them.
He's the first player to be red carded in an RWC final because he failed to keep his discipline.
Big arrow you've drawn there between lack of bottle and getting a (dubious IMHO) red card.
Bottling it means failing to do something and he failed to keep his tackles down with a lazy high shot. He failed to keep his discipline in a high pressure game. Whether or not the red is dubious is irrelevant. It was a high shot and he created that moment which forced an official to deliberate.
If he had kept his tackle down there would be nothing for the officials to judge.
Your contention has merit when looked at in isolation, but not when Kolisi gets away with a worse transgression in the very same game.
That's also irrelevant.
All Cane had to do was keep his tackle low and we wouldn't be having this debate. Again, Cane opened the door to let a flakey NH official decide his fate. No one else during the game. Cane.
But that's the exact issue. It's impossible for any dominant tackling loosie to keep 100% of their tackles low, mistakes happen.
"All" Cane had to do is something nobody else does. For example, Kolisi in the same game - so now Kolisi is lauded by all and sundry, while you are vilifying Cane - when they did the exact same damn thing, and the only thing that really causes that polar difference is the ref's inconsistent interpretation.Dude. I'm not vilifying him. I'm simply saying he failed to keep his discipline in an RWC final when the pressure was on. There is nothing abusive in my comments towards him.
He doesn't get a pass for his performance because officials have varied responses to high tackles. It was a high tackle. His performance was poor.
Psdt made 28 tackles in that final and none of them were high despite him being 15cm taller than Cane.
Great performance from Ardie. Poor from Cane and Frizell.
