Super Rugby News
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@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby News:
Tahs scrum/forwards coach Cam Blades departing at the end of the season.
Tahs defense coach Nathan Grey departing at the end of the season - will be full time Wallaby defence coach
Norths and Aussie 20's Head Coach Simon Cron to join the Tahs as Assistant Coach.
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@KiwiMurph Hahaha yes we'll get many articles about it from idiots like Hamish Bidwell and Mel Robinson will continue to bring it up in conversation.
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@antipodean said in Super Rugby News:
@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby News:
Tahs defense coach Nathan Grey departing at the end of the season - will be full time Wallaby defence coach
Nathan Grey has been "Haddocked"!!!
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@Tim said in Super Rugby News:
@KiwiMurph I hope he's giving the Wallabies a discount.
Can you imagine his CV?
- so far in 2017 only the Sunwolves, Cheetahs and Rebels have let more tries in than my defensive systems. Even the Force, Reds and Kings have a better defence.
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@Crucial said in Super Rugby News:
@Tim said in Super Rugby News:
@KiwiMurph I hope he's giving the Wallabies a discount.
Can you imagine his CV?
- so far in 2017 only the Sunwolves, Cheetahs and Rebels have let more tries in than my defensive systems. Even the Force, Reds and Kings have a better defence.
This picture should help you further understand the defensive systems I employ.
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@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby News:
I'm not sure what benefit it is having first fives who are older in years - the likes of Francis and Noakes were in their mid 20s when they played for the Blues - that didn't exactly help. I'd much rather have talented youngsters to take a punt on than mediocre 'veterans'
100%. Is 22 even old in first-five years?
I've been banging the drum for a while - but first fives pretty much are what they are at 21/2. All our best 10s were starting ABs before 22, even most of the good ones.
Ones that weren't carried the same flaws and idiosyncrasies throughout their career.
Unless the player isn't getting any game time, is part of a dysfunctional system or has been playing out of position - why expect them to improve?
They have one young 10 and two veterans for next year as far as I can tell.
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@Stargazer said in Super Rugby News:
@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby News:
Norths and Aussie 20's Head Coach Simon Cron to join the Tahs as Assistant Coach.
Is this Mike Cron's son?
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@rotated said in Super Rugby News:
@Stargazer said in Super Rugby News:
@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby News:
Norths and Aussie 20's Head Coach Simon Cron to join the Tahs as Assistant Coach.
Is this Mike Cron's son?
His nephew.
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@rotated depends i think. you get guys like mehrts who read the game so well that they are great from the outset, and guys like carter whose skills are so good that they look like they've been playing for years - and both of those guys with very calm temperaments. but those are all-time greats to me.
beauden is what, 26? a really remarkable talent, but 2 years since he's been a good 10... mckenzie is 22, and is by no means a 10 yet - though he has the skills to be one.
i reckon guys like tony brown, steve bachop, simon culhane, nick evans, hill, holwell all got better with a bit of age. -
@rotated Barret got his first start at 10 for the All Blacks in 2014 after his 23rd birthday and it was only last year he semented his place. Cruden got thrown in to the deep end in 2011, but one could argue he also got the starting gig only in 2013after his 24th birthday due to DC being unavailable(injured, sabbatical?). Sopoaga is the same age as Barrett and will probably play second fiddle after Cruden departs, Richie Mo'unga has turned 23 and will probably get a cap at some point.
And no I don't know about All Black flyhalves before that, but recent history would suggest that they are what they are at abouts 23-25, but I do agree with the sentiment that flyhalves don't age like props.
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@Sapetyvi said in Super Rugby News:
@rotated Barret got his first start at 10 for the All Blacks in 2014 after his 23rd birthday and it was only last year he semented his place. Cruden got thrown in to the deep end in 2011, but one could argue he also got the starting gig only in 2013after his 24th birthday due to DC being unavailable(injured, sabbatical?). Sopoaga is the same age as Barrett and will probably play second fiddle after Cruden departs, Richie Mo'unga has turned 23 and will probably get a cap at some point.
And no I don't know about All Black flyhalves before that, but recent history would suggest that they are what they are at abouts 23-25, but I do agree with the sentiment that flyhalves don't age like props.
Foxy didn't become the regular 10 until his mid 20s either. At any rate, looking at the past is hardly relevant as you note BB took a while to come through, and still, if not for an injury to Cruden last year and a Welsh series that BB took advantage of and then took that form back to Super Rugby and then beyond, he might still be the super sub now.
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@Nepia said in Super Rugby News:
Foxy didn't become the regular 10 until his mid 20s either. At any rate, looking at the past is hardly relevant as you note BB took a while to come through, and still, if not for an injury to Cruden last year and a Welsh series that BB took advantage of and then took that form back to Super Rugby and then beyond, he might still be the super sub now.
Selection was very different back then, Fox was anointed as a future AB 10 back in his AGS days - tenure was a big deal.
I'm not saying that they are the finished product at 22. But by that age the talent is evident and being a test quality 10 seems like the most likely outcome for the player. Obviously you can have more than one at the same time, so people miss out - but there is a difference in comfort level between Cruden backing up Carter and Donald.
Players still develop from there and obviously game time and positional flexibility plays a big role in their development. Barrett and Cruden's trajectory is hardly a surprise given they were both stars at U20 level and dominated ITM Cup in their rookie seasons.
Maybe I have it wrong but I haven't seen a player go from unremarkable at 22 to a quality AB in my time. Sopoaga is possibly being the closest and that was mainly because Anscombe and Barrett outshone him at the U20s and then Cruden and Carter have been in the way - it didn't seem like there was an avenue for him.
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@rotated I don't think anything is set in stone, and I don't think BB actually meets your starting before 22 standard either. BB was a 15 when in the U20s and it took him until last year to become a credible starter at 10, he was always a great super sub but didn't have a run of starting until he was 25.
D Mac was a star at U20 level too and then followed that up with a cracking NPC lets not forget and he has been playing out of position since then. He's another guy who could come through outside the 22 years that you set.
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A problem with rotated's theory is that it's a pretty small sample size. Post-Fox, there was a period where Mehrts and Carlos fought out the job - then Danny-Boy had a mortgage on things for a decade - and most recently Cruden and Barrett.
There's obviously been a number of others who've had time at first five, but very few who've had a consistent run to develop them.
Reality, these days, though seems to be that there's a pretty clear pathway to being an AB and there's not many seem to make it without being on that path.
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