Revenue Sharing
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@booboo said in Revenue Sharing:
@pot-hale said in Revenue Sharing:
@booboo said in Revenue Sharing:
@pot-hale said in Revenue Sharing:
@booboo said in Revenue Sharing:
The quip about the "build a bigger stadium" was the somewhat dismissive response from Ritchie the last time this came up.
It was illogical and arrogant when applied to NZ. Given this is the same argument it's even more so to apply that to Samoa.
Let's put it this way. If you put on a concert as a promoter you own that concert, but you pay your performers. No performers = no concert. No concert = no profit.
I understand your impression about NZ fans thinking we're special. We are ... errr ... we do. But I really think the model is unfair.
Yes England will sell out Twickers and make millions of broadcast dollars no matter who they play. But will they be able to attract anyone if they don't front with a reasonable appearance fee? Is Samoa going to keep playing for $200K? Can they afford to? Again no opposition no revenue at all.
I maintain the current system is selfish and unsustainable. NZ is going into bat for sharing. Yes they'll be a primary beneficiary. But so will every other nation.
I maintain that if every other country gets on board the benefits are huge.
I do understand that it seems like English bashing, but you guys offer the most stark contrasts.
And I'm not hungover.
Think I covered everything ...
England is the outlier. Why would it make sense for the IRFU/sRUWRU to share AI revenue with the NZRU a union that has a greater income than them?
AI? Artificial Intelligence? Oh you mean the End of Year Tours ... I do find the fact that you buggers up north think you're the only hemisphere with seasons up there with the English forgetting other countries have rugby unions. It's a bug bear of mine ... but I digress ...
Back on topic:
Because they would share revenue on outbound tours.You must be blissfully unaware of Spring Tours in your part of the world then.....
No. I'm aware we play you in June ... which is fucking winter down this way. We play you bastards in Spring when we play in November.
I'll try and deal with the rest in the a.m.
Yes - I was pointing out that the AIs are referred to as Spring tours by SH media and fans. Same difference. Hence, your mini-bleat about me referencing Autumn Internationals "I do find the fact that you buggers up north think you're the only hemisphere with seasons up there" is somewhat mis-directed. Sniff.
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@pot-hale said in Revenue Sharing:
@booboo said in Revenue Sharing:
@pot-hale said in Revenue Sharing:
@booboo said in Revenue Sharing:
@pot-hale said in Revenue Sharing:
@booboo said in Revenue Sharing:
The quip about the "build a bigger stadium" was the somewhat dismissive response from Ritchie the last time this came up.
It was illogical and arrogant when applied to NZ. Given this is the same argument it's even more so to apply that to Samoa.
Let's put it this way. If you put on a concert as a promoter you own that concert, but you pay your performers. No performers = no concert. No concert = no profit.
I understand your impression about NZ fans thinking we're special. We are ... errr ... we do. But I really think the model is unfair.
Yes England will sell out Twickers and make millions of broadcast dollars no matter who they play. But will they be able to attract anyone if they don't front with a reasonable appearance fee? Is Samoa going to keep playing for $200K? Can they afford to? Again no opposition no revenue at all.
I maintain the current system is selfish and unsustainable. NZ is going into bat for sharing. Yes they'll be a primary beneficiary. But so will every other nation.
I maintain that if every other country gets on board the benefits are huge.
I do understand that it seems like English bashing, but you guys offer the most stark contrasts.
And I'm not hungover.
Think I covered everything ...
England is the outlier. Why would it make sense for the IRFU/sRUWRU to share AI revenue with the NZRU a union that has a greater income than them?
AI? Artificial Intelligence? Oh you mean the End of Year Tours ... I do find the fact that you buggers up north think you're the only hemisphere with seasons up there with the English forgetting other countries have rugby unions. It's a bug bear of mine ... but I digress ...
Back on topic:
Because they would share revenue on outbound tours.You must be blissfully unaware of Spring Tours in your part of the world then.....
No. I'm aware we play you in June ... which is fucking winter down this way. We play you bastards in Spring when we play in November.
I'll try and deal with the rest in the a.m.
Yes - I was pointing out that the AIs are referred to as Spring tours by SH media and fans. Same difference. Hence, your mini-bleat about me referencing Autumn Internationals "I do find the fact that you buggers up north think you're the only hemisphere with seasons up there" is somewhat mis-directed. Sniff.
I have never heard the EOYT called the Spring Tours. Not in NZ anyway.
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@pot-hale said in Revenue Sharing:
@crucial said in Revenue Sharing:
@pot-hale said in Revenue Sharing:
@crucial said in Revenue Sharing:
@pot-hale said in Revenue Sharing:
@crucial said in Revenue Sharing:
@pot-hale said in Revenue Sharing:
@booboo said in Revenue Sharing:
@pot-hale said in Revenue Sharing:
@booboo said in Revenue Sharing:
The quip about the "build a bigger stadium" was the somewhat dismissive response from Ritchie the last time this came up.
It was illogical and arrogant when applied to NZ. Given this is the same argument it's even more so to apply that to Samoa.
Let's put it this way. If you put on a concert as a promoter you own that concert, but you pay your performers. No performers = no concert. No concert = no profit.
I understand your impression about NZ fans thinking we're special. We are ... errr ... we do. But I really think the model is unfair.
Yes England will sell out Twickers and make millions of broadcast dollars no matter who they play. But will they be able to attract anyone if they don't front with a reasonable appearance fee? Is Samoa going to keep playing for $200K? Can they afford to? Again no opposition no revenue at all.
I maintain the current system is selfish and unsustainable. NZ is going into bat for sharing. Yes they'll be a primary beneficiary. But so will every other nation.
I maintain that if every other country gets on board the benefits are huge.
I do understand that it seems like English bashing, but you guys offer the most stark contrasts.
And I'm not hungover.
Think I covered everything ...
England is the outlier. Why would it make sense for the IRFU/sRUWRU to share AI revenue with the NZRU a union that has a greater income than them?
AI? Artificial Intelligence? Oh you mean the End of Year Tours ... I do find the fact that you buggers up north think you're the only hemisphere with seasons up there with the English forgetting other countries have rugby unions. It's a bug bear of mine ... but I digress ...
Back on topic:
Because they would share revenue on outbound tours.So how would that balance out since the June Tours make less money? Even if it was the same then there would still be no benefit between the teams.
If there were simply 'appearance fees' then it is up to the home union to fund however the need to rather than have some kind of gate % thing going on.
e.g an appearance fee for a top 3 country may be US$500,000 you can fund that from gate or the TV rights. NZ playing England in NZ can command bigger TV revenue from sales to the UK market.Not sure if I understand what you’ve said. Are you saying that amount of monies paid would be based on WR ranking which could change during a tour or series of global tests on a weekly basis?
Leaving England out of it, how does this balance out unless you create an additional unplanned test from which revenues are shared?
For argument’s sake, Ireland are playing SA, Fiji and Argentina in November. Let’s say that each visiting team is going to get €250k per match as a fee on top having their travel costs covered. The IRFU is now down €750k on its income for the year. What’s the next step for them? Wait until they tour Australia next June and be paid €750k by the ARU on top of their travel costs?
You may be overthinking it.
The 'fees' and balancing would have to be part of the international schedule planning. If teams play home and away on an even basis then there isn't an issue.
Obviously any tournament can make its own arrangements on sharing the package income eg 6N, TRC so we are talking about the June and November periods.Yes my example above based on real schedule is for June and November periods.
I’m just not seeing where additional revenue is going to be made by a Tier One team. Unless you play additional revenue sharing tests.
Use Ireland as an example.
Ire v Fiji has Ireland paying Fiji an appearance fee
In June, Ireland will likely play NZ, Aus or SA away and will receive an appearance fee.
Simple enough?
Yep. So Ireland pay Fiji 200k. And one of SANZAR pays Ireland 200k. With you so far.
Fiji gains from that. So if the objective is to pay Tier Two/poor unions, then it's straightforward enough. Just agree a fee/tithe with the host nation to go along with the commitment to play them X number of times within the global calendar.It's the revenue-sharing between Tier One Nations that I'm querying during June and November tests.
I think it is fair to split the two arguments here.
One is for sharing income generated by playing non tier one nations that have very few income streams at all yet can provide extra income to tier one nations when they visit. IMO a bit of pay wouldn't go amiss.
The other argument is the revenue share for a country that generates income over and above the norm due to being a drawcard. The AB position is that as an attraction that can be charged (extra) for they should get a piece of that action.I don't have an answer to that is it is a complicated position where one 'rule' cannot be applied across the board.
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@crucial said in Revenue Sharing:
@pot-hale said in Revenue Sharing:
@booboo said in Revenue Sharing:
@pot-hale said in Revenue Sharing:
@booboo said in Revenue Sharing:
@pot-hale said in Revenue Sharing:
@booboo said in Revenue Sharing:
The quip about the "build a bigger stadium" was the somewhat dismissive response from Ritchie the last time this came up.
It was illogical and arrogant when applied to NZ. Given this is the same argument it's even more so to apply that to Samoa.
Let's put it this way. If you put on a concert as a promoter you own that concert, but you pay your performers. No performers = no concert. No concert = no profit.
I understand your impression about NZ fans thinking we're special. We are ... errr ... we do. But I really think the model is unfair.
Yes England will sell out Twickers and make millions of broadcast dollars no matter who they play. But will they be able to attract anyone if they don't front with a reasonable appearance fee? Is Samoa going to keep playing for $200K? Can they afford to? Again no opposition no revenue at all.
I maintain the current system is selfish and unsustainable. NZ is going into bat for sharing. Yes they'll be a primary beneficiary. But so will every other nation.
I maintain that if every other country gets on board the benefits are huge.
I do understand that it seems like English bashing, but you guys offer the most stark contrasts.
And I'm not hungover.
Think I covered everything ...
England is the outlier. Why would it make sense for the IRFU/sRUWRU to share AI revenue with the NZRU a union that has a greater income than them?
AI? Artificial Intelligence? Oh you mean the End of Year Tours ... I do find the fact that you buggers up north think you're the only hemisphere with seasons up there with the English forgetting other countries have rugby unions. It's a bug bear of mine ... but I digress ...
Back on topic:
Because they would share revenue on outbound tours.You must be blissfully unaware of Spring Tours in your part of the world then.....
No. I'm aware we play you in June ... which is fucking winter down this way. We play you bastards in Spring when we play in November.
I'll try and deal with the rest in the a.m.
Yes - I was pointing out that the AIs are referred to as Spring tours by SH media and fans. Same difference. Hence, your mini-bleat about me referencing Autumn Internationals "I do find the fact that you buggers up north think you're the only hemisphere with seasons up there" is somewhat mis-directed. Sniff.
I have never heard the EOYT called the Spring Tours. Not in NZ anyway.
Plenty in Oz.
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@pot-hale said in Revenue Sharing:
Plenty in Oz.
Yeah, but Aussies are stupid
Please refer to the title below to see what Kiwis call the tours as we understand that they are different seasons depending on where you are.
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@snowy said in Revenue Sharing:
@pot-hale said in Revenue Sharing:
Plenty in Oz.
Yeah, but Aussies are stupid
Please refer to the title below to see what Kiwis call the tours as we understand that they are different seasons depending on where you are.
I think Autumn Internationals is perfectly acceptable since most of the home grounds are in Autumn season anyway.
So there.
Ya boo sucks.
(And other less than adult responses) -
@pot-hale said in Revenue Sharing:
@booboo said in Revenue Sharing:
@pot-hale said in Revenue Sharing:
@booboo said in Revenue Sharing:
@pot-hale said in Revenue Sharing:
@booboo said in Revenue Sharing:
The quip about the "build a bigger stadium" was the somewhat dismissive response from Ritchie the last time this came up.
It was illogical and arrogant when applied to NZ. Given this is the same argument it's even more so to apply that to Samoa.
Let's put it this way. If you put on a concert as a promoter you own that concert, but you pay your performers. No performers = no concert. No concert = no profit.
I understand your impression about NZ fans thinking we're special. We are ... errr ... we do. But I really think the model is unfair.
Yes England will sell out Twickers and make millions of broadcast dollars no matter who they play. But will they be able to attract anyone if they don't front with a reasonable appearance fee? Is Samoa going to keep playing for $200K? Can they afford to? Again no opposition no revenue at all.
I maintain the current system is selfish and unsustainable. NZ is going into bat for sharing. Yes they'll be a primary beneficiary. But so will every other nation.
I maintain that if every other country gets on board the benefits are huge.
I do understand that it seems like English bashing, but you guys offer the most stark contrasts.
And I'm not hungover.
Think I covered everything ...
England is the outlier. Why would it make sense for the IRFU/sRUWRU to share AI revenue with the NZRU a union that has a greater income than them?
AI? Artificial Intelligence? Oh you mean the End of Year Tours ... I do find the fact that you buggers up north think you're the only hemisphere with seasons up there with the English forgetting other countries have rugby unions. It's a bug bear of mine ... but I digress ...
Back on topic:
Because they would share revenue on outbound tours.You must be blissfully unaware of Spring Tours in your part of the world then.....
No. I'm aware we play you in June ... which is fucking winter down this way. We play you bastards in Spring when we play in November.
I'll try and deal with the rest in the a.m.
Yes - I was pointing out that the AIs are referred to as Spring tours by SH media and fans. Same difference. Hence, your mini-bleat about me referencing Autumn Internationals "I do find the fact that you buggers up north think you're the only hemisphere with seasons up there" is somewhat mis-directed. Sniff.
I know we've veered off topic but I've NEVER heard them referred to as Spring tours.
The pretty universal term is EoYT or November internationals.
Sniff
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@booboo said in Revenue Sharing:
@pot-hale said in Revenue Sharing:
@booboo said in Revenue Sharing:
@pot-hale said in Revenue Sharing:
@booboo said in Revenue Sharing:
@pot-hale said in Revenue Sharing:
@booboo said in Revenue Sharing:
The quip about the "build a bigger stadium" was the somewhat dismissive response from Ritchie the last time this came up.
It was illogical and arrogant when applied to NZ. Given this is the same argument it's even more so to apply that to Samoa.
Let's put it this way. If you put on a concert as a promoter you own that concert, but you pay your performers. No performers = no concert. No concert = no profit.
I understand your impression about NZ fans thinking we're special. We are ... errr ... we do. But I really think the model is unfair.
Yes England will sell out Twickers and make millions of broadcast dollars no matter who they play. But will they be able to attract anyone if they don't front with a reasonable appearance fee? Is Samoa going to keep playing for $200K? Can they afford to? Again no opposition no revenue at all.
I maintain the current system is selfish and unsustainable. NZ is going into bat for sharing. Yes they'll be a primary beneficiary. But so will every other nation.
I maintain that if every other country gets on board the benefits are huge.
I do understand that it seems like English bashing, but you guys offer the most stark contrasts.
And I'm not hungover.
Think I covered everything ...
England is the outlier. Why would it make sense for the IRFU/sRUWRU to share AI revenue with the NZRU a union that has a greater income than them?
AI? Artificial Intelligence? Oh you mean the End of Year Tours ... I do find the fact that you buggers up north think you're the only hemisphere with seasons up there with the English forgetting other countries have rugby unions. It's a bug bear of mine ... but I digress ...
Back on topic:
Because they would share revenue on outbound tours.You must be blissfully unaware of Spring Tours in your part of the world then.....
No. I'm aware we play you in June ... which is fucking winter down this way. We play you bastards in Spring when we play in November.
I'll try and deal with the rest in the a.m.
Yes - I was pointing out that the AIs are referred to as Spring tours by SH media and fans. Same difference. Hence, your mini-bleat about me referencing Autumn Internationals "I do find the fact that you buggers up north think you're the only hemisphere with seasons up there" is somewhat mis-directed. Sniff.
I know we've veered off topic but I've NEVER heard them referred to as Spring tours.
The pretty universal term is EoYT or November internationals.
Sniff
I sniffed first. You can't sniff back - that's not in the rules.....
Talks to some Aussie fans and see if they say the same.
I see what you mean by EoYT and November Internationals being universal though:"Ireland head coach Joe Schmidt has included Connacht's newly Irish-qualified centre Bundee Aki, while dropping Simon Zebo for autumn internationals against Argentina, Fiji and South Africa.
Joe Schmidt's Ireland squad for autumn series - the major talking points
Ireland squad talking points
We look at the major talking points from Joe Schmidt's 2017 autumn internationals Ireland squad.New Zealand-born centre Bundee Aki has won his first Ireland call-up for the Autumn internationals, after completing his residency qualification.
Simmonds, who will turn 23 before the first autumn international against Argentina on 11 November.
England Autumn Internationals 2017 Rugby Fixtures
England won all three matches in the 2017 'Old Mutual Wealth Series'. After a sluggish start against Argentina in the opening match, England ran up a big score against old foes Australia in the second match...
Exeter back-row Sam Simmonds has received his first England call-up, but experienced flanker James Haskell has been left out of Eddie Jones' 34-man squad for the autumn internationals.
Should I stop now?
Triple sniff.
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Just throwing some random facts out there:
Wikipedia calls them End-of-Year rugby union internationals
"The End of year rugby union tests, known as Autumn internationals in the Northern Hemisphere, ..."
The number of results returned by Google also supports "EOYT", although I'm surprised by that (would have thought the much larger number of shitty rags in the Home Nations would have swayed this)
"Autumn Internationals" 1,570 (and a lot of these refer to sooker)
"November Internationals" 60,300
"EOYT" 357,000And with all that in mind, when I started looking for tickets, I searched for "Autumn Internationals". Been living in this dark damp shithole for too long.
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Tried google for 'Spring Tour' and only really found the small handful of Australian reports already mentioned being reused elsewhere. Could even be from one person.
The ABC (who presumably write their own stuff rather than reprint) refer to the end-of-season tour.Of course no one in the SH would refer to them as the AIs
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@kruse said in Revenue Sharing:
Just throwing some random facts out there:
Wikipedia calls them End-of-Year rugby union internationals
"The End of year rugby union tests, known as Autumn internationals in the Northern Hemisphere, ..."
The number of results returned by Google also supports "EOYT", although I'm surprised by that (would have thought the much larger number of shitty rags in the Home Nations would have swayed this)
"Autumn Internationals" 1,570 (and a lot of these refer to sooker)
"November Internationals" 60,300
"EOYT" 357,000And with all that in mind, when I started looking for tickets, I searched for "Autumn Internationals". Been living in this dark damp shithole for too long.
Lower Hutt?
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@crucial said in Revenue Sharing:
Tried google for 'Spring Tour' and only really found the small handful of Australian reports already mentioned being reused elsewhere. Could even be from one person.
The ABC (who presumably write their own stuff rather than reprint) refer to the end-of-season tour.Of course no one in the SH would refer to them as the AIs
Are they referred to as the EOYTs because it is near the end of the actual calendar year or because it is the near end of the rugby season?
We tend to call them the Autumn Internationals because it is Autumn.
Up here.
Where the tests are held.
Where we get to keep all the money. -
@catogrande said in Revenue Sharing:
@crucial said in Revenue Sharing:
Tried google for 'Spring Tour' and only really found the small handful of Australian reports already mentioned being reused elsewhere. Could even be from one person.
The ABC (who presumably write their own stuff rather than reprint) refer to the end-of-season tour.Of course no one in the SH would refer to them as the AIs
Are they referred to as the EOYTs because it is near the end of the actual calendar year or because it is the near end of the rugby season?
We tend to call them the Autumn Internationals because it is Autumn.
Up here.
Where the tests are held.
Where we get to keep all the money.And look on in jealous awe at the surplus of openside flankers on display...
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@catogrande said in Revenue Sharing:
@kruse said in Revenue Sharing:
Just throwing some random facts out there:
Wikipedia calls them End-of-Year rugby union internationals
"The End of year rugby union tests, known as Autumn internationals in the Northern Hemisphere, ..."
The number of results returned by Google also supports "EOYT", although I'm surprised by that (would have thought the much larger number of shitty rags in the Home Nations would have swayed this)
"Autumn Internationals" 1,570 (and a lot of these refer to sooker)
"November Internationals" 60,300
"EOYT" 357,000And with all that in mind, when I started looking for tickets, I searched for "Autumn Internationals". Been living in this dark damp shithole for too long.
Lower Hutt?
You got the first two letters right.
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@kruse said in Revenue Sharing:
@catogrande said in Revenue Sharing:
@kruse said in Revenue Sharing:
Just throwing some random facts out there:
Wikipedia calls them End-of-Year rugby union internationals
"The End of year rugby union tests, known as Autumn internationals in the Northern Hemisphere, ..."
The number of results returned by Google also supports "EOYT", although I'm surprised by that (would have thought the much larger number of shitty rags in the Home Nations would have swayed this)
"Autumn Internationals" 1,570 (and a lot of these refer to sooker)
"November Internationals" 60,300
"EOYT" 357,000And with all that in mind, when I started looking for tickets, I searched for "Autumn Internationals". Been living in this dark damp shithole for too long.
Lower Hutt?
You got the first two letters right.
Lower Humility?
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@crucial said in Revenue Sharing:
Tried google for 'Spring Tour' and only really found the small handful of Australian reports already mentioned being reused elsewhere. Could even be from one person.
The ABC (who presumably write their own stuff rather than reprint) refer to the end-of-season tour.Of course no one in the SH would refer to them as the AIs
Maybe that one person works in the Australian Rugby Union....
Or maybe it’s Nathan Grey:
“Since Michael's taken over the team at the start of 2014 Spring Tour, the team's been through a lot in terms of both success and not achieving what we want to achieve through the spring tour 2014 into 2015,” he said.BEIN Sports?
“Watch every match of New Zealand's Spring Tour EXCLUSIVELY LIVE on beIN SPORTS, as the All Blacks look to bounce back from their shock Bledisloe Cup loss to the Wallabies.” -
This post is deleted!
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It seems:
Brits of all flavours follow the English "we're the centre of the world" naming standard of "Autumn Internationals", or "Autumn Series" to be just that little bit different
Australians, being the contrary idiots they are, decided to call it a "Spring Tour"
South Africans, still stoked to be allowed outside, call it the "Outgoing Tour"
New Zealanders, being inherently sensible, use End-of-Year-Tour for us, or for more general use: End-of-Year-Tests/Internationals - the only term which would/should make sense to everybody
(Except officially - where apparently the All Blacks call it the Vista Northern Tour - having apparently sold worthless naming rights?) -
@kruse If you look where the meridian is you will see that we ARE the centre of the world.
Folau out of Spring Tour
