Southland Rugby
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@Stargazer Like you play for the Highlanders but have to be signed with Southland or Otago (or North Otago but whatever). So you HAVE to play for a province from your Super Rugby area.
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@Crucial said in Southland Rugby:
@Wurzel said in Southland Rugby:
Would merging the Southland club comp with the Otago Country Sub Union help? I know Mid Canterbury and Ellesmere Sub Union play together.
That would cover an even larger geographic area and one of the biggest problems Southland have had to deal with is club numbers from low population density over a large area. As rugby player numbers in general dropped and rugby became not the only sporting pastime, getting players to commit to hours of travel to reach another team didn't help.
When I visited the Southland museum there was a display showing all of the Southland rugby clubs. From Bluff in the south to Te Anau in the north.
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@Stargazer Not at all. Having an equal salary cap for all competing teams to abide by will see players having to move if they wish to play professionally in New Zealand as you can only fit so many players under the limit in each province. It does have its cheat side (a la NRL) however with brown envelopes and employment (for want of a better word), "endorsements" etc being arranged for players by sponsors etc whereby the employee is an employee in name only.
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@Yeetyaah Righto. That's a 'no' from me. Look at this situation.
Province A is in SR catchment X.
SR franchise X has a bias towards signing players from province B.
Some very good players from province A - overlooked by SR franchise X - sign a contract with SR franchise Z.
They would be forced to move from province A to a province in the catchment of franchise Z.
Province A loses some very good players.Some players signed by franchise X from other provinces than Province A (including from outside its catchment) have to be allocated to provinces inside catchment X.
Province A has to contract non-local players from other provinces, who'd prefer to play for their home province but have to play in catchment X instead.Great motivation for both province and player.
The province loses its own players and get players forced on them from other catchements.
Players from other catchments are forced to player for another province than their own. -
@Stargazer said in Southland Rugby:
@Yeetyaah Righto. That's a 'no' from me. Look at this situation.
Province A is in SR catchment X.
SR franchise X has a bias towards signing players from province B.
Some very good players from province A - overlooked by SR franchise X - sign a contract with SR franchise Z.
They would be forced to move from province A to a province in the catchment of franchise Z.
Province A loses some very good players.Some players signed by franchise X from other provinces than Province A (including from outside its catchment) have to be allocated to provinces inside catchment X.
Province A has to contract non-local players from other provinces, who'd prefer to play for their home province but have to play in catchment X instead.Great motivation for both province and player.
The province loses its own players and get players forced on them from other catchements.
Players from other catchments are forced to player for another province than their own.I'm interested in what you think the answer is?
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@Bovidae Southland is quite a bit bigger in area than Northland, but the trip from Bluff to Te Anau is shorter driving time than Wellsford to Kaitaia.
This conversation comes up every half dozen years or so, I think there has been sufficient investment by local bodies and NZR that the 14 teams currently playing, will continue unless something significant happens which requires a major re-shaping of NZR, which may be on the cards down the track, but can't see it in the next few years at least.
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@Stargazer said in Southland Rugby:
@Hooroo Why would I have the answer, if even NZRU doesn't seem to have one?
I don't think the NZRU is looking for an answer to this. I'm just interested in your thoughts as you seem to know why it won't work
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@taniwharugby said in Southland Rugby:
@Bovidae Southland is quite a bit bigger in area than Northland, but the trip from Bluff to Te Anau is shorter driving time than Wellsford to Kaitaia.
Yes, but having driven a lot around both Southland and Northland on recent holidays I know which road trip I'd prefer in the winter. Not as many vehicles on the road down south, of course.
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@Higgins said in Southland Rugby:
@Stargazer Not at all. Having an equal salary cap for all competing teams to abide by will see players having to move if they wish to play professionally in New Zealand as you can only fit so many players under the limit in each province. It does have its cheat side (a la NRL) however with brown envelopes and employment (for want of a better word), "endorsements" etc being arranged for players by sponsors etc whereby the employee is an employee in name only.
I see it as punishing provinces for their success in developing players up to the level of SR. After all, if they develop a lot of club players into SR players, the salaries of these players will go up. The next season, they can't sign all of them anymore, because they'd go over the salary cap. So players are forced to move provinces (which I'm pertinently against) and provinces, who provide good development programmes and are successful in creating a good SR pathway, lose the players they have successfully developed. And then they have to develop new players, or have to sign less talented players from other provinces.
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@Yeetyaah said in Southland Rugby:
@Stargazer Like you play for the Highlanders but have to be signed with Southland or Otago (or North Otago but whatever). So you HAVE to play for a province from your Super Rugby area.
That's pretty much how it was before central contracting and when 24 players had to come from within the catchment area. The Highlanders regularly struggled to find 24 players good enough and thrashed the draft year on year like no other, BUT what it did was ensure Otago and Southland between them were an attractive place to be for guys who wanted SR exposure.
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@shark said in Southland Rugby:
@Yeetyaah said in Southland Rugby:
@Stargazer Like you play for the Highlanders but have to be signed with Southland or Otago (or North Otago but whatever). So you HAVE to play for a province from your Super Rugby area.
That's pretty much how it was before central contracting and when 24 players had to come from within the catchment area. The Highlanders regularly struggled to find 24 players good enough and thrashed the draft year on year like no other, BUT what it did was ensure Otago and Southland between them were an attractive place to be for guys who wanted SR exposure.
Bring back the Harbourlanders!
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Rather than a salary cap what about a draft? Each year all eligible players (uncapped and 18 plus) can enter and the teams pick in reverse finishing order. Give each pick a 2 year deal with a two year team option then let them hit 'free agency'. Some of the details probably need tinkering but seems a more reliable way to spread talent.
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@Cyclops said in Southland Rugby:
Rather than a salary cap what about a draft? Each year all eligible players (uncapped and 18 plus) can enter and the teams pick in reverse finishing order. Give each pick a 2 year deal with a two year team option then let them hit 'free agency'. Some of the details probably need tinkering but seems a more reliable way to spread talent.
I think that would work for the NPC and solve a number of issues.
But it would likely adversely impact club rugby as we know it.
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@ACT-Crusader I would think it is even less likely to work for NPC given the low salaries of players needing to move for a 10 week NPC contract.
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A draft, again, could result in players not being given the choice to play for their own province or another province of their choice. I just don't believe in forcing a player to play for a team he doesn't want to play for, if the only other option is not playing at all.
