BOP Eruption?
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@Snowy said in BOP Eruption?:
That tells a bit of a different story to what I saw on the TB news piece on the two chopper guys last night and got bloody angry. I don't know all of the facts but apparently they saved 12 people and are now being prosecuted. I've been involved in SaR and whilst you don't want to add / be one of the dead you do what you can under dangerous circumstances. The prosecutions are for not taking precautions beforehand but the pilots actions afterwards are commendable. Tim Barrow and his dad (possibly uncle) Boyce have been around helis for ever. Boyce has written a book and I think has his picture in the AKL museum. They are not cowboys.
Both helis made it out, so maybe they had it right? Used good judgement? Some of what I heard is horrendous regarding the state the victims were in and those guys will live with it forever, but they did the right thing. Worksafe can fuck off. It is an active volcano why did they let them operate at all? It's their fault if they want to lay blame.
I really enjoyed watching that last night. How that guy, who remained on the island and put the victims in comfortable positions, stayed so emotionless throughout the program, was quite remarkable.
I get that worksafe have a job to do but they are also a brand now and they need to make good decisions before going in hard against these two pilots.
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@Hooroo said in BOP Eruption?:
I get that worksafe have a job to do but they are also a brand now and they need to make good decisions before going in hard against these two pilots.
If the evidence is there, they need to prosecute.
Interestingly, prosecuting for actions on the day would clarify to everyone our H+S laws, and how tight they are.
One of the frustrations for me is that WorkSafe never give useful advice, or clarify that operating on a volcano can't be OK. It's only after an incident that they come in to bayonet the wounded. It's just so 'strict liability' that it does my head. Pike River had an award winning H+S system. Whakaari operators had great H+S systems. Yet both resulted in horrific outcomes.
Combined with 'reparations', fear of Worksafe has driven a risk averse culture in NZ, just like the litigious fears overseas. Whether that is good or bad depends on your perspective.
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Thing is they can't ignore any failings prior to the eruption just because they did good after.
I expect if they are convicted the pilots fines will be relatively small compared to what they could be (I know if one case though where the fine was in excess of 400k while reparations were only 40k - although the organisation had had an incident previously and not made any changes to thier processes)
I hope they do have insurance though as this at least will pay thier legal costs and any reparations.
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@taniwharugby said in BOP Eruption?:
isnt this about thier actions prior to the Eruption, rather the heroics after?
Yes, and I said that in my post, but Worksafe have to be accountable as well. They were letting people operate to an active volcano. What sort of governance is that if your job is enforcing health and safety? Should the Ruapehu ski fields now be shut down? It is an active volcano too. 151 dead in the Tangiwai disaster was due to a Lahar from Ruapehu.
I guess we shall see what info was available to the operators about increased volcanic activity, but volcanology isn't an exact science, so how many times did these operators look at a report and roll their eyes thinking "little boy that cried wolf" again?
I deal with worksafe, and the bloke I deal with is friendly, helpful and reasonable so I am not having a go at them per se. I just think that they are getting this one wrong. The pilot's actions after the event imply a strong responsibilty for human life.
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@Snowy said in BOP Eruption?:
but Worksafe have to be accountable as well
which I also mentioned too
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@taniwharugby said in BOP Eruption?:
@Snowy said in BOP Eruption?:
but Worksafe have to be accountable as well
which I also mentioned too
Yeah, I saw it and agree with your comments that the guidelines may not have been clear enough.
I suppose the point is they aren't prosecuting themselves are they? They are the other party involved.
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@Snowy said in BOP Eruption?:
I suppose the point is they aren't prosecting themselves are they? They are the other party involved.
yeah that is an interesting point, who would prosecute them (the groups they are prosecuting, the families of the victims?) I assume they can be prosecuted?
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@taniwharugby said in BOP Eruption?:
@Snowy said in BOP Eruption?:
I suppose the point is they aren't prosecting themselves are they? They are the other party involved.
yeah that is an interesting point, who would prosecute them (the groups they are prosecuting, the families of the victims?) I assume they can be prosecuted?
I'd contribute to a crowdfunded prosecution to see if they did all that they should have under the law
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@taniwharugby Great. This is exactly what I was getting at.
Worksafe can prosecute, or even persecute, the pilots but they need to be looked at too.
Government enquiries into government entities isn't perfect but it is better than nothing.
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@Snowy is interesting, I got an email last night (re Legal Liability around H & S, expect probably written past few days or weekish) so assume this review has only happened recently or hadn't been announced a review was imminent.
There has been no inquiry or investigation into WorkSafe’s role as a regulator of Adventure Activities or whether it met its duties under HASWA. At least one of the defendants had its Safety Management System audited (and passed) by a WorkSafe approved Adventure Activities auditor. This information was publicly available on WorkSafe’s Register of adventure activity operators at the time of the eruption.
