RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ
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Not a bad age at all but still sad to see the passing of such a man - John Dawes.
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@catogrande Sad news.
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Amazing that he had 22 appearances for Wales and 19 for the Lions
RIP
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Great captain of the '71 Lions and hugely popular on and off the field.
Sadly, the '77 Lions tour he coached was the opposite of the 1971 tour off the field, and that must have been heart-breaking for him - even though he did more than OK results-wise.
All in all, a top bloke.
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When Dawes was appointed Welsh coach in 1974, wasn't there some controversy about Carwyn James missing out?
Something like James put forward a few conditions he wanted if he got the job which the Welsh RU supposedly took umbrage at and overlooked him because of it? I think one of them was James wanted to be sole selector instead of having the traditional five selectors?
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@number-10 said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
When Dawes was appointed Welsh coach in 1974, wasn't there some controversy about Carwyn James missing out?
Something like James put forward a few conditions he wanted if he got the job which the Welsh RU supposedly took umbrage at and overlooked him because of it? I think one of them was James wanted to be sole selector instead of having the traditional five selectors?
Yeah that was pretty much it
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@mikethesnow said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
@number-10 said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
When Dawes was appointed Welsh coach in 1974, wasn't there some controversy about Carwyn James missing out?
Something like James put forward a few conditions he wanted if he got the job which the Welsh RU supposedly took umbrage at and overlooked him because of it? I think one of them was James wanted to be sole selector instead of having the traditional five selectors?
Yeah that was pretty much it
Carwyn James was a coaching genius and way up there with the likes of Dan Carter as a Rugby God. His book on coaching (read it yonks ago) is said to have been decades ahead of his time. My best-ever XV would have him as coach
I've heard from some Welsh friends that the reasons for his non-appointment were pretty murky. Loads of rumours about his sexuality may have upset some in the WRU but also stories of jealously at his success as a coach. Any thoughts?
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@victor-meldrew said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
@mikethesnow said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
@number-10 said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
When Dawes was appointed Welsh coach in 1974, wasn't there some controversy about Carwyn James missing out?
Something like James put forward a few conditions he wanted if he got the job which the Welsh RU supposedly took umbrage at and overlooked him because of it? I think one of them was James wanted to be sole selector instead of having the traditional five selectors?
Yeah that was pretty much it
Carwyn James was a coaching genius and way up there with the likes of Dan Carter as a Rugby God. His book on coaching (read it yonks ago) is said to have been decades ahead of his time. My best-ever XV would have him as coach
I've heard from some Welsh friends that the reasons for his non-appointment were pretty murky. Loads of rumours about his sexuality may have upset some in the WRU but also stories of jealously at his success as a coach. Any thoughts?
If you've seen 'Grand Slam' then silence (for the Big 5) was far more worrying than sexuality.
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@mikethesnow said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
If you've seen 'Grand Slam' then silence (for the Big 5) was far more worrying than sexuality.
Sorry but that's gone over my head, Mike. Are you referring to the 1978 film?
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@victor-meldrew said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
@mikethesnow said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
If you've seen 'Grand Slam' then silence (for the Big 5) was far more worrying than sexuality.
Sorry but that's gone over my head, Mike. Are you referring to the 1978 film?
Yes
The Big 5 feared silence over everything.
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@mikethesnow said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
@victor-meldrew said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
@mikethesnow said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
If you've seen 'Grand Slam' then silence (for the Big 5) was far more worrying than sexuality.
Sorry but that's gone over my head, Mike. Are you referring to the 1978 film?
Yes
The Big 5 feared silence over everything.
I'm afraid your point remains somewhat cryptic.
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@booboo said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
@mikethesnow said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
@victor-meldrew said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
@mikethesnow said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
If you've seen 'Grand Slam' then silence (for the Big 5) was far more worrying than sexuality.
Sorry but that's gone over my head, Mike. Are you referring to the 1978 film?
Yes
The Big 5 feared silence over everything.
I'm afraid your point remains somewhat cryptic.
If James had been given the post and sole selection then the Big 5 would have become redundant.
They weren’t going to sign their own death warrants.
That’s my understanding of the situation, but could be way off.
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@mikethesnow said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
@booboo said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
@mikethesnow said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
@victor-meldrew said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
@mikethesnow said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
If you've seen 'Grand Slam' then silence (for the Big 5) was far more worrying than sexuality.
Sorry but that's gone over my head, Mike. Are you referring to the 1978 film?
Yes
The Big 5 feared silence over everything.
I'm afraid your point remains somewhat cryptic.
If James had been given the post and sole selection then the Big 5 would have become redundant.
They weren’t going to sign their own death warrants.
That’s my understanding of the situation, but could be way off.
Big 5? Selectors?
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@booboo said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
@mikethesnow said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
@booboo said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
@mikethesnow said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
@victor-meldrew said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
@mikethesnow said in RIP The winningest Lions skipper v NZ:
If you've seen 'Grand Slam' then silence (for the Big 5) was far more worrying than sexuality.
Sorry but that's gone over my head, Mike. Are you referring to the 1978 film?
Yes
The Big 5 feared silence over everything.
I'm afraid your point remains somewhat cryptic.
If James had been given the post and sole selection then the Big 5 would have become redundant.
They weren’t going to sign their own death warrants.
That’s my understanding of the situation, but could be way off.
Big 5? Selectors?
Yes
Welsh team was selected by committee named the Big 5
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Dawes (together with Barry John & Mike Gibson) visited my school during the 71 tour. From memory he spoke very well and appreciated the school assembly singing Land of My Fathers.
I had a beer with him and Bill Beaumont after the 4th test in 77. Understandable he wasn't as chipper but still seemed like a decent sort. Lions in 77 were very unlucky. Shitty weather all tour long, Phil Bennett homesick and out of sorts, an unhappy tour party, key injuries before and during the tour - hence Beaumont being there. Yet despite all this they probably should have won the series 3-1 Batty and Knights winning tries in the 1st and 4th test both came against the run of play.
