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I have three friends and a close relative who all got infected months after getting double-dosed with the Pfizer miracle. I have been vaxxed twice. I am fairly certain Covid won’t kill me. I’ve been exercising (resistance training & cardio) every other day for the past 35 years and have an excellent BMI for a Senior. So I’m not scared of Rona. But the anecdotal evidence suggests to me the vaccine simply isn’t very effective, or at best kindasortamaybe a little bit barely effective. Great for the shareholders; maybe not so great for people putting faith that the vaxx will protect them. Being careful about what I wish for, I’d be lying if I said a part of me doesn’t want to submit and contract infection so that I get REAL immunity and stop living under a sword of Damocles. I got my 2nd dose three months ago and I’m still being gaslit to wear a dehumanizing mask. This isn’t a crisis; it’s a bloody farce.
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@kid-chocolate said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I have three friends and a close relative who all got infected months after getting double-dosed with the Pfizer miracle. I have been vaxxed twice. I am fairly certain Covid won’t kill me. I’ve been exercising (resistance training & cardio) every other day for the past 35 years and have an excellent BMI for a Senior. So I’m not scared of Rona. But the anecdotal evidence suggests to me the vaccine simply isn’t very effective, or at best kindasortamaybe a little bit barely effective. Great for the shareholders; maybe not so great for people putting faith that the vaxx will protect them. Being careful about what I wish for, I’d be lying if I said a part of me doesn’t want to submit and contract infection so that I get REAL immunity and stop living under a sword of Damocles. I got my 2nd dose three months ago and I’m still being gaslit to wear a dehumanizing mask. This isn’t a crisis; it’s a bloody farce.
really? isn't that the one things that been pretty clear (maybe im wrong) but that while cases in countries with high vax rates have gone back up the hospitalisation rate has been nowhere near what it was pre-vax last year
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The fact that CNN had a death-counter chryon every minute Trump was prez, then removed it for the new nutjob, suggests to me grubby politics, not science nor genuine concern. I doubt Covid is real, and is especially lethal to very-very old people and morbidly obese fatbodies. But the panic, paranoia and hysteria is the biggest psy-op I’ve ever seen.
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Good article in the Atlantic yesterday saying half the ICU cases in the States were mild and should never have been hospitalized in the first place.
Our Most Reliable Pandemic Number Is Losing Meaning
A new study suggests that almost half of those hospitalized with COVID-19 have mild or asymptomatic cases.Earlier:
The Most Reliable Pandemic Number Keeps Getting Worse
America reported a record number of COVID-19 hospitalizations in the first week of 2021.By The COVID Tracking Project
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@kid-chocolate ...but doesnt that suggest the vax may be even better than thought, if the number of ICU cases should be even less?
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The numbers were inflated bc panicked people were scared to death by their administrative and cultural overlords. For many it was like getting a hangnail and calling an ambulance because they feared gangrene and arm amputation.
Adding: So much of this reminds me of Thomas Edison electrocuting Topsy the circus elephant in front of journalists at Coney Island to SCIENTIFICALLY PROVE that Tesla’s Alternating Current (AC) was significantly more dangerous than Tommy’s patented Direct Current (DC) and should not be used by humans, who are much more at risk of fatality than giant circus elephants. The media dutifully reported it as true. Hey, look, a dead elephant! They filmed it. I won’t dignify by posting the footage, but it’s on youtube.
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@kid-chocolate said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Good article in the Atlantic yesterday saying half the ICU cases in the States were mild and should never have been hospitalized in the first place.
Our Most Reliable Pandemic Number Is Losing Meaning
A new study suggests that almost half of those hospitalized with COVID-19 have mild or asymptomatic cases.That is categorically not what that article is saying.
I clicked on the link for that article, it is an interesting one.
For starters; it is not about ICU admissions at all, just hosptital admissions.
It is from a study for Veteran Affairs hospitals - article states that VA has a policy to test every inpatient for COVID. (So lots of "with covids" in their stats.)
most relevant paragraph:
But the study also demonstrates that hospitalization rates for COVID, as cited by journalists and policy makers, can be misleading, if not considered carefully. Clearly many patients right now are seriously ill. We also know that overcrowding of hospitals by COVID patients with even mild illness can have negative implications for patients in need of other care.
At the same time, this study suggests that COVID hospitalization tallies can’t be taken as a simple measure of the prevalence of severe or even moderate disease, because they might inflate the true numbers by a factor of two. “As we look to shift from cases to hospitalizations as a metric to drive policy and assess level of risk to a community or state or country,” Doron told me, referring to decisions about school closures, business restrictions, mask requirements, and so on, “we should refine the definition of hospitalization. Those patients who are there with rather than from COVID don’t belong in the metric.”
The study seems to show that as vaccination has increased the proportion of 'with' rather than 'from' has increased. (because the vaccinations seem to work ... so the metric has less value).
But also that even for unvaccinated the symptoms were also milder in 2021 compared to 2020.
But the study period stopped as the delta wave was about to become prevalent in America (June 2021)
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@kid-chocolate said in Coronavirus - Overall:
But the anecdotal evidence suggests to me the vaccine simply isn’t very effective, or at best kindasortamaybe a little bit barely effective.
@rapido said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Don't rely on anecdotal evidence when there's real evidence that proves the efficacy of the vaccine. The results presented by @Rapido are being repeated across the globe.
The vaccine has a real and verified impact on the seriousness of the disease. Pre vaccination the current case rate in the UK would have seen the NHS overwhelmed and the country plunged back into a hard lockdown. Instead football grounds are full to capacity, pubs are packed and life is pretty much back to normal.
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I haven't fact-checked this article, but the graphs make for interesting viewing IF they're accurate:
https://ianmsc.substack.com/p/why-does-no-one-ever-talk-about-swedenCases:
More importantly, deaths:
Neighbours:
Deaths (no graph, maybe the data doesn't help the authors cause here?)
Germany:
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I'm wondering if this graph (article was paywalled, so didn't read it) has something to do with this: https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/sep/19/take-care-with-claims-about-unvaccinated-case-rates-covid
E.g. they are using an estimated unvaccinated populations line from both ONS and PHE. -
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Don't rely on anecdotal evidence when there's real evidence that proves the efficacy of the vaccine.
The echo chamber that is the internet. Anecdotal evidence posing as empirical evidence and plenty of people willing to slurp it up
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@godder said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@voodoo while contracting Covid isn't perfect at preventing future infection, it is more effective than being vaccinated, although being vaccinated and infected at least once is the best future protection.
In that order
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@voodoo The graphs aren't that interesting - mainly because the author cherry picks and then plays with the scale to make things look more dramatic (eg. deaths/million. Sweden's around 1 Israel 2.8 but the axis makes it look much worse)
The article also has a graph showing how low Sweden's death rate is - and all the countries above are ones where the whole world knows they lost control at some point or another.
Thing is the whole article is based on a untruth - People never stop talking about fuclking Sweden. Anyone who is anti-lockdown writes yet another article about how fucking brilliant Sweden has been, doing exactly what the author says the world is doing. I must see 2-3 articles a week. Generally they do what this guy has done and accentuate the positive and ignore the negatives.
Wow Sweden is doing really well (now that most of western Europe has vaccinated and its been summer) and ignores the previous cock-ups.
It's not fake news - it's just slanted reporting. Opinion masquerading as fact.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Overall:
It's not fake news - it's just slanted reporting. Opinion masquerading as fact.
Sounds like modern media. What it does is open the door to genuine fake news, as you just don't trust what you read any more. Ask yourself: do you trust a headline to be read at face value any more? I sure as hell don't, you find out the headline writers are clickbait authors.
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@rapido said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Is showing just this part (in black box):
Spot on.
And the more important metric is 'excess mortality'. NZ had very low Covid deaths, and lower excess mortality last winter - but from what I saw, it seemed to come back in Summer as time caught up with the people who survived winter (predominantly the aged).
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From the Throwing Shit Against a Wall Department:
Gottlieb: 'Nobody knows' origins of six-foot social-distancing recommendation
Former Food and Drug Administration (FDA) commissioner Scott Gottlieb said on Sunday that "nobody knows" the origins of the six-foot social-distancing recommendation.
During an appearance on CBS’s “Face The Nation,” Gottlieb told host Margaret Brennan that the recommendation was arbitrary, saying that the Biden administration asked the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to change its guidelines from six feet to three feet in an effort to re-open schools last spring.
“Nobody knows where it came from. Most people assume that the six feet of distance, the recommendation for keeping six feet apart, comes out of some old studies related to flu, where droplets don't travel more than six feet,” Gottlieb told Brennan.
Gottlieb also said that the CDC’s initial social-distancing recommendation was 10 feet.
“So the compromise was around six feet. Now imagine if that detail had leaked out. Everyone would have said, 'This is the White House politically interfering with the CDC's judgment.' The CDC said 10 feet, it should be 10 feet, but 10 feet was no more right than six feet and ultimately became three feet,” Gottlieb said.
“But when it became three feet, the basis for the CDC's decision to ultimately revise it from six to three feet was a study that they conducted the prior fall. So they changed it in the spring.”
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But personally I do think Sweden's mask policies are probably ok, good, fair enough.
Reccommend rather than mandate.
90% of people do, just for social pressure reasons or even genuine health concerns. Once we have moved from elimination, 90% is probably enough to flatten curves.
Just looking at the streets in Wellington & Wairarapa (from my experiences), it is not mandatory but kazillions of people are wearing them, and there isn't even covid within about 600kms.
Admittedly. We've had it mandated on public transport for 8 months, and behaviour seems fine in my experience.
Just don't think we should exhaust energy on or politicise something that 90% will do anyway willingly or slightly grudgingly.
Definitely wouldn't suggest an outdoor mask mandate, personally. Which Israel's seems to have had.
Coronavirus - Overall