Coronavirus - Overall
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@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@tewaio said in Coronavirus - Overall:
It's amazing how different various parts of the world are now. In the UK I haven't put on a mask at all since late July.
Signs are still up in the tube/trains to wear a mask, but only about a quarter of people do. Staff members and ticket inspectors don't.
Yep
Came abroad on Monday evening
Next to no one wearing them in London
Great
Mine’s in my pocket for nowI'd say it's variable e.g. in my leafy and slightly elderly suburb of London ...
If I go to a large supermarket in the daytime the crowd is middle aged+ in general, probably 70-80% masking. Surprisingly high.
If I pop to a mini-market at 10pm, most of the people there are picking up a few things after being in a pub/restaurant. So mainly 20s-30s. Maybe only 20-30% masked.
I wear one in enclosed spaces, but it's for others not me. If I forget it I don't sweat it and I don't judge anyone not wearing one.
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I'm as pro-vax as they come. I've been double-jabbed since June. My wife the same. My 12 year old has had his first shot already
But
I find the way way the discussion is framed interesting.
I read a column today that opened with "to safely limit future lockdowns and return to a sense of normalcy, vaccinating adolescents will be important"
Not to protect them from covid, but to avoid government responses.
In the grand scheme of things it's nothing serious, but I think talk like this is how you end up with so many people not wanting, or openly resisting vaccination.
You.take medicine for health reasons, not government policy reasons
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I'm as pro-vax as they come. I've been double-jabbed since June. My wife the same. My 12 year old has had his first shot already
But
I find the way way the discussion is framed interesting.
I read a column today that opened with "to safely limit future lockdowns and return to a sense of normalcy, vaccinating adolescents will be important"
Not to protect them from covid, but to avoid government responses.
In the grand scheme of things it's nothing serious, but I think talk like this is how you end up with so many people not wanting, or openly resisting vaccination.
You.take medicine for health reasons, not government policy reasons
Haven't they tried the health angle already though? People should realise by now the risks of catching covid19 which can be long lasting or fatal if you are unlucky. And yet peopleout there seem willing to chance it. So now part of the incentive is pointing out that vax is the best chance to get closer to having our old life back again
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@mariner4life I agree all you say ... am provax, as is my teenager thankfully.
But one question - what scientific basis(es) do you follow for vaccinating 12-15 year olds on an individual basis? Reason I ask ...
In the UK the pure medical evidence on vaccinating 12-15 years olds was that it was borderline for them as individuals. It has been finally justified by a higher level medical committee, I think, on mental health reasons and disruption of missing school i.e. still of benefit to an individual child ... on balance. Mmmmmm, okay.
I'm wondering if there will be a push to vaccinate 5-11 year olds downstream, based on "something slightly concocted", but actually for societal and healthcare system protection.
Even if I were a parent of a 5-11 year old kid, I wouldn't necessarily say no it as long as a government is being transparent. BUT if I was doubtful and felt my government was misleading me, it would put me off vaccinating a younger child.
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I'm as pro-vax as they come. I've been double-jabbed since June. My wife the same. My 12 year old has had his first shot already
But
I find the way way the discussion is framed interesting.
I read a column today that opened with "to safely limit future lockdowns and return to a sense of normalcy, vaccinating adolescents will be important"
Not to protect them from covid, but to avoid government responses.
In the grand scheme of things it's nothing serious, but I think talk like this is how you end up with so many people not wanting, or openly resisting vaccination.
You.take medicine for health reasons, not government policy reasons
1 million fucking %
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I'm as pro-vax as they come. I've been double-jabbed since June. My wife the same. My 12 year old has had his first shot already
But
I find the way way the discussion is framed interesting.
I read a column today that opened with "to safely limit future lockdowns and return to a sense of normalcy, vaccinating adolescents will be important"
Not to protect them from covid, but to avoid government responses.
In the grand scheme of things it's nothing serious, but I think talk like this is how you end up with so many people not wanting, or openly resisting vaccination.
You.take medicine for health reasons, not government policy reasons
Haven't they tried the health angle already though? People should realise by now the risks of catching covid19 which can be long lasting or fatal if you are unlucky. And yet peopleout there seem willing to chance it. So now part of the incentive is pointing out that vax is the best chance to get closer to having our old life back again
It’s never been about catching it.
it’s been about overwhelming the health services.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I'm as pro-vax as they come. I've been double-jabbed since June. My wife the same. My 12 year old has had his first shot already
But
I find the way way the discussion is framed interesting.
I read a column today that opened with "to safely limit future lockdowns and return to a sense of normalcy, vaccinating adolescents will be important"
Not to protect them from covid, but to avoid government responses.
In the grand scheme of things it's nothing serious, but I think talk like this is how you end up with so many people not wanting, or openly resisting vaccination.
You.take medicine for health reasons, not government policy reasons
Haven't they tried the health angle already though? People should realise by now the risks of catching covid19 which can be long lasting or fatal if you are unlucky. And yet peopleout there seem willing to chance it. So now part of the incentive is pointing out that vax is the best chance to get closer to having our old life back again
I'm interested in NZ, if a 12-15 year old kid disagrees with their parents on being vaccinated or not, how does it work/will it work?
In the UK there is a cornerstone legal-medical principle based on case-law precedent called "Gillick competency" which is applied to allow adolescents to access things like contraception or abortion without parental approval - as long as a doctor agrees they are Gillick competent.
(If our UK government bypasses this for CoVid ... I would find it very very problematic indeed)
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@l_n_p said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I'm wondering if there will be a push to vaccinate 5-11 year olds downstream, based on "something slightly concocted", but actually for societal and healthcare system protection.
of course there will, and apparently the studies are underway currently, I expect ultimately it will be for everyone to be vaxxed.
The way I see it, you will have a small portion of people that will go about thier lives, doing the right thing, but as soon as you tell they have to do it, they will then refuse.
Then you have the section who buy into the anti-vax, conspiracy movement (I stupidly engaged with someone on FB the other day, thinking they were up for a reasonable conversation, but ended up telling me you cant trust the NZ Herald due to Newscorp or cant trust Google, while using Youtube clips to prove thier point, and even when I bought up what I had pointed to was nothing to do with NZ Herald, they went further into the rabbit hole, so I bailed)
And then you have those that cant be vaxxed.
@L_n_P well if that kids parents are Anti-vax, that kid who is 12-15 to can choose to get vaccinated without consent
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@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I'm as pro-vax as they come. I've been double-jabbed since June. My wife the same. My 12 year old has had his first shot already
But
I find the way way the discussion is framed interesting.
I read a column today that opened with "to safely limit future lockdowns and return to a sense of normalcy, vaccinating adolescents will be important"
Not to protect them from covid, but to avoid government responses.
In the grand scheme of things it's nothing serious, but I think talk like this is how you end up with so many people not wanting, or openly resisting vaccination.
You.take medicine for health reasons, not government policy reasons
Haven't they tried the health angle already though? People should realise by now the risks of catching covid19 which can be long lasting or fatal if you are unlucky. And yet peopleout there seem willing to chance it. So now part of the incentive is pointing out that vax is the best chance to get closer to having our old life back again
It’s never been about catching it.
it’s been about overwhelming the health services.
It can be about both. Too many people get bad cases at the same time and it will definitely be about the consequences of catching it if you can't get a bed in the hospital
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I'm as pro-vax as they come. I've been double-jabbed since June. My wife the same. My 12 year old has had his first shot already
But
I find the way way the discussion is framed interesting.
I read a column today that opened with "to safely limit future lockdowns and return to a sense of normalcy, vaccinating adolescents will be important"
Not to protect them from covid, but to avoid government responses.
In the grand scheme of things it's nothing serious, but I think talk like this is how you end up with so many people not wanting, or openly resisting vaccination.
You.take medicine for health reasons, not government policy reasons
Absolutely this.
My wife and I are already wondering about this, as vaccination status will limit travel capability. At some point, we'll be getting my boy jabbed so he can get on a plane, not because of any substantial health risk to his person from Covid.
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@taniwharugby I think quite the opposite in UK, and even more in Europe.
My opinion? Making an offer to vaccinate 5-11 years olds would put off a lot of adult fence-sitters and reinforce the anti-vax movement. A PR nightmare in short.
Practically they would get a gain on pure vaccination percentages, but in reality get a net overall loss on actual health benefits by entrenching adult positions ... and it's the unvaccinated parents and older people who need the vaccination far more.
It's complex.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@l_n_p said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I'm wondering if there will be a push to vaccinate 5-11 year olds downstream, based on "something slightly concocted", but actually for societal and healthcare system protection.
The way I see it, you will have a small portion of people that will go about thier lives, doing the right thing, but as soon as you tell they have to do it, they will then refuse.
thats actually what im worried about with the riots in melbourne, there will be some people who were probably just going to get it because they were on the fence and it was largely seen as the right thing...but now its even more tied to our "freedoms" and "our hard working tradies" and other sound bites they will galvanize against
I'll add im specifically not commenting on the topic of vaxxing younger people, i have my thoughts but i dont have kids and so dont know how i would feel if i did
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@kiwiwomble TR Jnr (16) has had 1 jab, was also an 'essential worker' at Pak'n;Save during lockdown haha
Miss 13 is coming along for her 1st jab on Sunday when we get our 2nd.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@L_n_P well if that kids parents are Anti-vax, that kid who is 12-15 to can choose to get vaccinated without consent
Thanks, just asking . That's key for me, assuming they are competent to make that decision it's ... good.
fyi there's a case in the UK system on adolescent i.e. 11-15 trans kids having access to puberty blockers without parental support if they need to. Thankfully the Court of Appeal has ruled in very very strong terms that the same principle of "Gillick competency" applies to trans kids equally to another kid who may need contraception or an abortion. Parental consent not needed. It might go to the Supreme Court, though my feeling is they'll refuse to hear it at all.
But IF parents or government give themselves the right to decide for an adolescent, legally it allows a gaping hole for the religious right to attack adolescents' right to access contraception and abortion ... again. And that's fricken huge, like moving back to to 60-70s.
(Sorry ... sidetrack!!)
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sometimes i really regret not having kids...and then others i think i just dont think im strong/smart/confident any number of other things to be responsible for another human
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@kiwiwomble bro you just adapt!
Some days you just want to strangle the little shits, then others you want to leave haha
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we asked our eldest if he wanted it and he said yes instantly
reason "i want to travel again"
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fyi Apparently our UK Chief Medical Officer has explained publically on TV regarding Gillick compency and that adolescents can make their own choice on vaccines. Twitter communities are having a meltdown on this!!
The Anti-Vax movement hate that their kids can make their own choice ...
The Gender Conformists and TERFs hate the recent confirmation that Trans kids can able to decide for themselves on puberty blockers ...
Feminists have gone quiet or are conflicted because if they are Anti-Vax or TERFS, attacking Gillick competency becomes an attack (primarily) on female adolescents' ability to access contraception and abortion which are hard-won cornerstones for them ...
Fascinating watching people trying to resolve their value conflicts. They're struggling!
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - Overall:
You.take medicine for health reasons, not government policy reasons
Agree 100%.
Although the wife and I got vaccinated solely to be able to travel again... Don't need the vaccine for medical efficaciousness at our age and level of health, but did so in the hope we wouldn't be subjected to restrictions. Sad isn't it?